Azrael 5
Philosopher
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How does the current financial crisis affect the Challenge funds?
- Thread starter alfaniner
- Start date
Azrael 5
Philosopher
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I think it important to keep informing JREF members of TP's inane rants.
Again from Magic Cafe thread about the million.
Inane.Why does he care? He has no prototcol? He has no paranormal ability.
He has no common sense.
ETA: I wasn't aware there was a money problem,can anyone clarify?
Again from Magic Cafe thread about the million.
I called the JREF today again and asked for an update on their money problem.
They took my number and said they'd call back.
Nothing yet
Inane.Why does he care? He has no prototcol? He has no paranormal ability.
He has no common sense.
ETA: I wasn't aware there was a money problem,can anyone clarify?
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Jackalgirl
Graduate Poster
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As far as I know (and I don't claim to know anything), there is no money problem.
TP has a suspicion that the current financial crisis has negatively impacted the amount of money in the prize fund. I believe that this is what he is referring to as the JREF's "money problem" -- it is not their problem, but rather his problem understanding that even if this were true, it would not obviate the JREF's contractual obligation to pay him $1M should he succeed in passing both the preliminary and formal demonstration phases of the Challenge.
Since he and the JREF have not arrived at a mutually-agreed-upon protocol (as far as I know), this is putting the cart before the horse. But I suspect he is looking for an excuse to avoid having to actually attempt to put a protocol down on paper and make it publically viewable.
You see, getting to the protocol phase places him in a bad position: he either sets things up so that he is unable to perform his tricks (by agreeing to a properly-controlled protocol), or he makes it plain that he has no intentions of agreeing to a properly-controlled protocol by refusing to submit or agree to one (which would be available for anyone to see).
By going on and on about the JREF's "money problems", he invents a way to avoid having to actually get to the protocol phase altogether. "I would have submitted a properly-controlled protocol, but I won't bother since they don't have the money!"
TP has a suspicion that the current financial crisis has negatively impacted the amount of money in the prize fund. I believe that this is what he is referring to as the JREF's "money problem" -- it is not their problem, but rather his problem understanding that even if this were true, it would not obviate the JREF's contractual obligation to pay him $1M should he succeed in passing both the preliminary and formal demonstration phases of the Challenge.
Since he and the JREF have not arrived at a mutually-agreed-upon protocol (as far as I know), this is putting the cart before the horse. But I suspect he is looking for an excuse to avoid having to actually attempt to put a protocol down on paper and make it publically viewable.
You see, getting to the protocol phase places him in a bad position: he either sets things up so that he is unable to perform his tricks (by agreeing to a properly-controlled protocol), or he makes it plain that he has no intentions of agreeing to a properly-controlled protocol by refusing to submit or agree to one (which would be available for anyone to see).
By going on and on about the JREF's "money problems", he invents a way to avoid having to actually get to the protocol phase altogether. "I would have submitted a properly-controlled protocol, but I won't bother since they don't have the money!"
rjh01
Gentleman of leisure
You are brilliant Jackalgirl!
Jeff Corey
New York Skeptic
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Meanwhile at the Magic Cafe, someone who reminds me of someone here sez, "I'm sure Slim will be glad to have you in his corner. Perhaps you can advise him on how to proceed in crafting his protocol.
Randwill
Randwill
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I just saw this posted by "Psychic Samurai" (known here as The Professor) at The Magic Cafe in reply to a supporter who feels he (TP) has been treated unfairly here;
"Thanks Bill!
If you bother to read the other JREF MDC Applicant threads you'll see they do the very same thing to them too
Lot's of Closed Minded Snarky Bashing
It's their way of getting Applicants to Quit. (And making themselves feel a bit superior)
If that doesn't work then they keep raising the bar or simply refusing to "Agree" on the protocol.
The guys on youtube call it a "Sham!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMX0d8Efzj8
They will never risk the Million (Or what's left of it)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMrgr1yR3k0&feature=related"
He seems to be setting himself up to say he tried to be tested but the JREF wouldn't work with him. Which is what some have been predicting was his plan all along.
"Thanks Bill!
If you bother to read the other JREF MDC Applicant threads you'll see they do the very same thing to them too
Lot's of Closed Minded Snarky Bashing
It's their way of getting Applicants to Quit. (And making themselves feel a bit superior)
If that doesn't work then they keep raising the bar or simply refusing to "Agree" on the protocol.
The guys on youtube call it a "Sham!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMX0d8Efzj8
They will never risk the Million (Or what's left of it)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMrgr1yR3k0&feature=related"
He seems to be setting himself up to say he tried to be tested but the JREF wouldn't work with him. Which is what some have been predicting was his plan all along.
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chillzero
Penultimate Amazing
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This thread should not be about The Professor. And please don't make me set another thread to moderated status for discussing his protocol outside the moderated thread fro doing so.
It seems to me this thread can be left to die, since the initial question has been answered repeatedly, and should TP continue to ignore it and flood the thread with the same questions over and over it may be closed.
It seems to me this thread can be left to die, since the initial question has been answered repeatedly, and should TP continue to ignore it and flood the thread with the same questions over and over it may be closed.
The Professor
Banned
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Are you threatening to close this thread because I contacted the JREF last week and ASKED THE BIG QUESTION and received " WE'LL CALL YOU BACK " as an answer?
I'm STILL waiting for a return call .... Nothing so far.
The initial question has NOT been answered. Ask the JREF yourself.
I DID !
Brian-M
Daydreamer
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Do you have a comprehension disability?
Chillzero is threatening to put the thread on moderated status if we keep talking about you instead of the million dollar prize, which is what this thread is supposed to be about.
The latest statement should be found here.
They seem to be a bit behind in posting last month's statement. Maybe they haven't received it yet, or possibly they haven't gotten around to scanning it in yet.
The statement ending August 31 shows:
$578,218.72 Cash Equivalents and Auction Rate Securities
$534,896.30 Investment Grade Fixed Income
Given the nature of these investments, the chances of the cash prize dropping significantly below $1,000,000.00 is very slim indeed.
If it's that important to you, call them again, or better yet, email them. Your call may have slipped their mind.
The Professor
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Why do you think they are late?
Almost all of my friends have received statements during this crisis to update their information, since the investment companies see that many people are concerned.
I was concerned even Before the Crash as to the fluidity of the Challenge Money.
There is NO Million Dollar Challenge without the Million Dollars don't you agree?
It's a valid question.
Almost all of my friends have received statements during this crisis to update their information, since the investment companies see that many people are concerned.
I was concerned even Before the Crash as to the fluidity of the Challenge Money.
There is NO Million Dollar Challenge without the Million Dollars don't you agree?
It's a valid question.
Wowbagger
The Infinitely Prolonged
Professor: Is it really about the money? If you really did have paranormal powers, and the JREF test verified it - their Million Dollar prize would be the least of your rewards!
Imagine: Mainstream scientists all over the world taking your claims seriously!
Imagine: Obtaining a Nobel Prize for the most innovative and unexpected discovery in all of the entire history of science!
Imagine: The money to be made from booksales and lecture tours! Because you now hold the key to real powers, that everyone would love to hear about!
Makes the JREF Million look kinda pathetic, doesn't it?
Imagine: Mainstream scientists all over the world taking your claims seriously!
Imagine: Obtaining a Nobel Prize for the most innovative and unexpected discovery in all of the entire history of science!
Imagine: The money to be made from booksales and lecture tours! Because you now hold the key to real powers, that everyone would love to hear about!
Makes the JREF Million look kinda pathetic, doesn't it?
The Professor
Banned
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The Professor
Banned
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Here's the Deal .... If the JREF MDC proves to have dropped to below the Million Dollars, can I expect an apology from you .... or will you languish in your ignorance?
Will you MAN UP, or just sluff it off?
I have only asked a question that all of you profess to know without exception.
http://jimclass.com/
Will you MAN UP, or just sluff it off?
I have only asked a question that all of you profess to know without exception.
http://jimclass.com/
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I to will put forward my apology. Then I will help donate to get it back up to the million. But first I need to see that happen. Will you do the same if it's found out that it does, in fact, have more than a million dollars in it?(stole the last question from post above)
Azrael 5
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If you are so concerned why not go through the list of worldwide challenges you were given the link to some time ago,apply to all them and you will have more than one million.
You signed a contract when you applied for MDC,GUARANTEEING you on emilllion dollars.Should you win.There is little chance of you winnning so I don't know your problem.
By the time you create a protocol the stock market will be blooming.
You signed a contract when you applied for MDC,GUARANTEEING you on emilllion dollars.Should you win.There is little chance of you winnning so I don't know your problem.
By the time you create a protocol the stock market will be blooming.
Bonds folks, bonds. If the JREF had a million in bonds last month (in fact they had more than that as Startz kindly pointed out here http://www.randi.org/challenge/goldmansachs.pdf) then they have a million plus fixed interest this month. Either that or Goldman Sachs has gone belly up.
Either way the JREF has enough assets to cover the million outside of Goldman Sachs as Matt C kindly pointed out here
http://www.guidestar.org/pqShowGsReport.do?npoId=523196
Total Assets: 2,369,744
If somehow Goldman Sachs went under obliterating the prize fund and for some connected and therefore not entirely coincidental reason, the other assets were also unrecoverable and if...
(and this is a BIG IF)
...if after ten years of searching, a genuine paranormal claim finally managed to pass both the preliminary and the final test, then the JREF would still have to pay. As has also been pointed out by too many to mention, that's a legal obligation set out in the contract. As many here have mentioned, there are tens of thousands of supporters that would chip in rather then see the JREF go under. I've promised my $1,000 (though I think it's pretty safe) but some of these other supporters are not short of income. One or two could probably cover the whole million in one shot.
That the million would be paid is as near to a certainty as is reasonably possible.
Descartes advocated the universality of doubt. It will always be possible to apply hyperbolic doubt. When the cynic sees a statement showing the current balance of the account he may petulantly demand the next statement, and the next and the next. Just as the Professor has already done once. He may demand that Goldman Sachs undergoes a full audit at his whim or that the JREF diversify their investments. He may propose that their inevitable reluctance is a sign of nefarious motives. However in fact it is a sign that the request comes from a no-account non-entity with no greater right to be heard than my tea leaf reading granny.
This could be changed by just by passing the test. That is the true prize. Not the millions dollars but the fact that the winner could no longer be so easily dismissed. When the winner of the MDC points out that the value of the dollar has plummeted in recent months and a million now has a fraction of the buying power that it would have had when the challenge first offered it, people will actually listen. Respect, that's what the prize offers, not only is it something that can't be bought, it's something that certain applicants clearly desire.
Either way the JREF has enough assets to cover the million outside of Goldman Sachs as Matt C kindly pointed out here
http://www.guidestar.org/pqShowGsReport.do?npoId=523196
Total Assets: 2,369,744
If somehow Goldman Sachs went under obliterating the prize fund and for some connected and therefore not entirely coincidental reason, the other assets were also unrecoverable and if...
(and this is a BIG IF)
...if after ten years of searching, a genuine paranormal claim finally managed to pass both the preliminary and the final test, then the JREF would still have to pay. As has also been pointed out by too many to mention, that's a legal obligation set out in the contract. As many here have mentioned, there are tens of thousands of supporters that would chip in rather then see the JREF go under. I've promised my $1,000 (though I think it's pretty safe) but some of these other supporters are not short of income. One or two could probably cover the whole million in one shot.
That the million would be paid is as near to a certainty as is reasonably possible.
Descartes advocated the universality of doubt. It will always be possible to apply hyperbolic doubt. When the cynic sees a statement showing the current balance of the account he may petulantly demand the next statement, and the next and the next. Just as the Professor has already done once. He may demand that Goldman Sachs undergoes a full audit at his whim or that the JREF diversify their investments. He may propose that their inevitable reluctance is a sign of nefarious motives. However in fact it is a sign that the request comes from a no-account non-entity with no greater right to be heard than my tea leaf reading granny.
This could be changed by just by passing the test. That is the true prize. Not the millions dollars but the fact that the winner could no longer be so easily dismissed. When the winner of the MDC points out that the value of the dollar has plummeted in recent months and a million now has a fraction of the buying power that it would have had when the challenge first offered it, people will actually listen. Respect, that's what the prize offers, not only is it something that can't be bought, it's something that certain applicants clearly desire.
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