Darth Rotor
Salted Sith Cynic
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How do you fight?
- Thread starter JAStewart
- Start date
Totovader
Game Warden
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I have only met a couple of them in real life- nothing too exciting. With one exception, they were friends of friends, and I didn't want to have to embarass them... 
One time, though- I did follow a car* into the parking lot of a local store. On the bumper was a sticker that said "9/11 was an inside job". The only one I've ever seen around here, in fact. I mean- they're nutty around here- but not tinfoil hat nutty. Anyway, I was all stoked to talk to a real one in person and I got out of my car and walked up to them.
Out steps some teeny bopper girl, yanks her kid out of her car, walks over to a truck that was obviously waiting for her- hands the kid to a young guy slightly older than her and says "she puked all over the place".
Perhaps I'm generalizing in my thoughts- but I made the assumption that she had nothing to offer in the way of a decent argument, and I turned around and walked away.
*By "following" I did not mean "stalking" or "going out of my way"; I meant that I was behind the individual as she was entering the parking lot.
One time, though- I did follow a car* into the parking lot of a local store. On the bumper was a sticker that said "9/11 was an inside job". The only one I've ever seen around here, in fact. I mean- they're nutty around here- but not tinfoil hat nutty. Anyway, I was all stoked to talk to a real one in person and I got out of my car and walked up to them.
Out steps some teeny bopper girl, yanks her kid out of her car, walks over to a truck that was obviously waiting for her- hands the kid to a young guy slightly older than her and says "she puked all over the place".
Perhaps I'm generalizing in my thoughts- but I made the assumption that she had nothing to offer in the way of a decent argument, and I turned around and walked away.
*By "following" I did not mean "stalking" or "going out of my way"; I meant that I was behind the individual as she was entering the parking lot.
Kiwiwriter
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- May 22, 2006
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- 1,108
Right first time....
The squadron we supported. Half the year they were with us in ChCh, where they had their hangars and mechanics, the other half they were in Port Hueneme, California.
They lived in the hotel next to us...they took up an entire wing. Very lucrative deal for the hotel, which was about the level of a good Holiday Inn, swimming pool, bar, restaurant.
The amusing part was their success with local women, and the results thereof. Every now and then I'd get a call from someone in town, trying to track down his or her father, who was always "a pilot" with VXE-6, named "Ted" or "Fred," who came from "a large city" like Los Angeles or Chicago, and did we have a record of him?
I had to resist the urge to say, "The biggest lie told that evening was not, 'Oh, darling, you're the greatest, I love you,' or 'No, babe, I'm not married, I'll call you,' I'm afraid."
Some day they should build a statue in Christchurch showing a US Navy sailor strangling a New Zealand girl (who is strangling him back), with the following caption of explanation:
Sailor: "What do you mean, you're pregnant?"
Girl: "What do you mean, you've got a wife in San Diego?"
The squadron we supported. Half the year they were with us in ChCh, where they had their hangars and mechanics, the other half they were in Port Hueneme, California.
They lived in the hotel next to us...they took up an entire wing. Very lucrative deal for the hotel, which was about the level of a good Holiday Inn, swimming pool, bar, restaurant.
The amusing part was their success with local women, and the results thereof. Every now and then I'd get a call from someone in town, trying to track down his or her father, who was always "a pilot" with VXE-6, named "Ted" or "Fred," who came from "a large city" like Los Angeles or Chicago, and did we have a record of him?
I had to resist the urge to say, "The biggest lie told that evening was not, 'Oh, darling, you're the greatest, I love you,' or 'No, babe, I'm not married, I'll call you,' I'm afraid."
Some day they should build a statue in Christchurch showing a US Navy sailor strangling a New Zealand girl (who is strangling him back), with the following caption of explanation:
Sailor: "What do you mean, you're pregnant?"
Girl: "What do you mean, you've got a wife in San Diego?"
RolandtheGunslinger
New Blood
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- Feb 19, 2007
- Messages
- 20
I have been living a CT family member's nightmare for almost 9 months now. My brother is a "die hard, Alex Jones brainwashed, vaccine fearing, 9/11 was an inside job, NWO, illuminati mind control via cell towers, american concentration camp" CT'er. For the last 8 1/2 months, he has berated, harrassed, criticized, and strongarmed his family and most of his friends. He calls us all "asleep, dumb, thick skulled, sheeple". He categorizes his disrespect and utter cruelty as TOUGH love. In reference to the Matrix, he says "you just cant handle the red pill can you?"
With that said, about 2 weeks ago, my wife and I stumbled onto Perry's website about CT'ers and Alex Jones and the <b>first twinges of HOPE started flowing through my nerves! </b>We read for a long time, and I decided to email Perry. Much to my surprise he responded (not many people respond these days) and gave me the links listed above and the link to the JREF website.
These websites are FILLED with REASONABLE information. Plenty of it too!
Now I am systematically studying, documenting, and information gathering. Ammunition stockpiling! Armor fabricating! THANK YOU PERRY! THANK YOU JREF!!!
Maybe...just maybe....I can get my brainwashed brother back. Until then, I will fight for his life and my parents' sanity with the tools that have been generously given to me.
Anyone else out there related to a Gung Ho CT'er?
Not related, but have a friend who is one.
I hope you are able to get your brother back. It will be a LONG, HARD, ANGUISHING battle, trust me. If he is as hard core as you say he is it will take more than the facts, it will take true perseverance on your part, and you WILL HAVE TO KNOW the facts inside and out, not just be able to spue off a few tidbits.
Welcome to the forum Roland. There are plenty of kind people around here to help you with what you are looking for.
TAM
I hope you are able to get your brother back. It will be a LONG, HARD, ANGUISHING battle, trust me. If he is as hard core as you say he is it will take more than the facts, it will take true perseverance on your part, and you WILL HAVE TO KNOW the facts inside and out, not just be able to spue off a few tidbits.
Welcome to the forum Roland. There are plenty of kind people around here to help you with what you are looking for.
TAM
gumboot
lorcutus.tolere
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- Jun 18, 2006
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Welcome,
And good luck with your brother. I think a bit part of the CT business is emotional reinforcement from others. It will be the agreement of other CTers (perhaps friends, perhaps online) that is keeping him going. I am sure that over time the counter-pressure of yourself and the rest of your family will overcome and be victorious!
Providing the said same information to other family members and friends may also speed up the process.
-Gumboot
And good luck with your brother. I think a bit part of the CT business is emotional reinforcement from others. It will be the agreement of other CTers (perhaps friends, perhaps online) that is keeping him going. I am sure that over time the counter-pressure of yourself and the rest of your family will overcome and be victorious!
Providing the said same information to other family members and friends may also speed up the process.
-Gumboot
PerryLogan
Banned
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- Oct 8, 2006
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- 980
Welcome, Roland! Glad to see you here.
You have our sympathy for your situation. If knowledge can help you or your wayward brother, there is plenty of it here.
But watch out for the silliness. The threads here sometimes have a tendency to become silly.
gumboot
lorcutus.tolere
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stateofgrace
Unregistered
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- Aug 31, 2006
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Hi and welcome, I am yet to meet a truther in real life so I cannot really imagine how difficult it must be for you and your family. I hope all turns out well for you and hopefully you will be able to shine some light into the dark corners.
There are many people here who have researched various aspects of 911 fully and extensively and there are excellent links to well establish debunking sites at the top of the page. Most of these sites offer in-depth debunking of many of the popular conspiracies.
I personally believe that the appeal of the conspiracies is simply a form of anti establishment rebellion that eventually most people will simply grow out off. Of course there will always be the real die hards, the leaders of this movement, that will continue to fuel this, these people are beyond the pale, they are simply beyond any form of rational logic. It is easy for people like this to simply spew rubbish onto the net and kid on that anybody who does not agree with their theories are simply shills or slaves to the system. The reality is that most people who oppose these theories are neither. I personally do not care of Bush and co and really don’t support what has happened since 911, nor do I believe they handled the Intel beforehand very well.
This said, I have seen nothing and I mean nothing that has convinced me of anything the conspirators try to promote. They always claim that science is on their side, they always claim they are simply asking questions. They are not; they are accusing perfectly innocent people of mass murder.
There is no end of conspiracies about 911 and sometimes it literally is ¨wack a mole¨. As soon as one is put to bed another one pops up to take its place. This is eventually put to bed and then up pops another or the original one.
It is worth pointed out that NIST is accepted across the globe by every single Institute of professional engineers. They are not one that has openly opposed what they say about the Towers. The scholars as they like to call themselves have simply hijacked this most dreadful event and use it to fuel their own egos.
Anyway welcome and I really hope you do find what you need here and I hope you can convince your brother that the reality is quite simple. That being the US was really attacked; the US is actually the victim in all this.
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gumboot
lorcutus.tolere
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I think there's one thing I find truly astounding about the 9/11 conspiracy theories...
In an event like this, I'd expect there to be a few anomolies and dead ends - little details that support the conspiracy theoriests. Tiny cracks they can dig their greedy little claws into.
Yet there isn't.
It's not a case of the key claims not holding up. Nothing holds up. Every single tiny little minute claim turns out to be false. Every spec of evidence is either wrongly interpreted, or a total fabrication.
It's mind blowing that they can generate theories from such a staggering lack of evidence.
I mean, even when I look into alternative theories for other events, there's usually a couple of little details that kind of support them. The 9/11 conspiracy theories aren't just a house of cards. They're built on a foundation of smoke and water.
-Gumboot
In an event like this, I'd expect there to be a few anomolies and dead ends - little details that support the conspiracy theoriests. Tiny cracks they can dig their greedy little claws into.
Yet there isn't.
It's not a case of the key claims not holding up. Nothing holds up. Every single tiny little minute claim turns out to be false. Every spec of evidence is either wrongly interpreted, or a total fabrication.
It's mind blowing that they can generate theories from such a staggering lack of evidence.
I mean, even when I look into alternative theories for other events, there's usually a couple of little details that kind of support them. The 9/11 conspiracy theories aren't just a house of cards. They're built on a foundation of smoke and water.
-Gumboot
RolandtheGunslinger
New Blood
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2007
- Messages
- 20
T.A.M. and gumboot, thank you both very much for the much needed support. I'll definitely be the proverbial brain picker from time to time (take note gumboot). I know how hard it is going to be but your responses give me new fuel. Its been an exhausting 9 months. I've been hoping that someone doesn't tell him to drink some kool-aid.
T.A.M., have you had any luck with your friend?
T.A.M., have you had any luck with your friend?
Here is a list of topics that your brother will likely use to prove his story. Take them, look each of them up here, and at 911myths.com, and get all the info on them you can:
Topic = WTC Attacks/Collapse
1. WTCs were brought down by "Controlled Demolition" ie. explosives were used.
2. Marvin Bush, related to the president, was head of security at the WTC just prior to 9/11
3. No steel framed skyscraper has ever come down solely due to fire prior to 9/11.
4. People exiting the WTCs on 9/11 heard explosions, so there must have been explosives planted in the buildings.
5. the collapses alone cannot by themselves explain the pulverization of all the concrete in the WTCs
6. Fighterjets were flying over NYC and could have stopped the Airliners before they struck the WTCs.
7. The fires in the WTCs were small and spread out.
9. There was molten STEEL in the remains at GZ, proving the use of THERMITE.
Topic=WTC 7
1. WTC7 housed secret information, so the Neoncons behind 9/11 had it purposely destroyed.
2. Larry Silverstein told the Fire Captain to "Pull" the building, meaning to have it brought down by Demolition.
3. Larry Silverstein made hundreds of millions off the collapse of this building and the twin towers
4. Because it was not hit by a plane, yet it collapsed, WTC7 had to have been brought down by CD.
Topic = Pentagon Attack
1. American Airlines Flight 77 never hit the Pentagon.
2. The downed light poles were planted, like the plane parts, by the USG who were behind the attacks.
3. The plane that everyone saw allegedly hit the Pentagon, was actually a military plane that launched a missile as it approached, then FLEW OVER the Pentagon, and then out of sight.
4. The hole in the outer wall of the Pentagon was too small to have been made by the crashing Airliner.
5. No remains of the hijackers were identified at the Pentagon site.
Topic=Flight 93
1. The calls could not have been made from the flight, as cellphone calls are impossible at cruizing altitude.
2. The calls were fabricated using voice morphing tech and actors.
3. Flight 93 was shot down by US military
4. There was no plane debris, and hence no plane crashed...at Shanksville.
Topic=Al-Qaeda/Terrorists
1. Some of the hijackers are still alive.
2. Osama Bin Laden denied he was involved in 9/11 initially, and only later in a fake tape confessed.
3. The military trained the hijackers to fly
4. The hijackers were just patsies
5. The ISI (Pakistani Intelligence) was funding the hijackers
Topic=Forwarning
1. The jewish community knew of the attacks before hand
2. Govt officials including John Ashcroft, and DF mayor Willie Brown were given warnings of the attacks, and hence did not travel via commerical flights that day.
3. The government knew where, when, and how 9/11 was going to happen.
Once again, the above is a list of topics and views that your brother will likely use, or has already used to try convince you. Look them up and be ready to argue the facts with him...You may need to give him some tough love...
TAM
Topic = WTC Attacks/Collapse
1. WTCs were brought down by "Controlled Demolition" ie. explosives were used.
2. Marvin Bush, related to the president, was head of security at the WTC just prior to 9/11
3. No steel framed skyscraper has ever come down solely due to fire prior to 9/11.
4. People exiting the WTCs on 9/11 heard explosions, so there must have been explosives planted in the buildings.
5. the collapses alone cannot by themselves explain the pulverization of all the concrete in the WTCs
6. Fighterjets were flying over NYC and could have stopped the Airliners before they struck the WTCs.
7. The fires in the WTCs were small and spread out.
9. There was molten STEEL in the remains at GZ, proving the use of THERMITE.
Topic=WTC 7
1. WTC7 housed secret information, so the Neoncons behind 9/11 had it purposely destroyed.
2. Larry Silverstein told the Fire Captain to "Pull" the building, meaning to have it brought down by Demolition.
3. Larry Silverstein made hundreds of millions off the collapse of this building and the twin towers
4. Because it was not hit by a plane, yet it collapsed, WTC7 had to have been brought down by CD.
Topic = Pentagon Attack
1. American Airlines Flight 77 never hit the Pentagon.
2. The downed light poles were planted, like the plane parts, by the USG who were behind the attacks.
3. The plane that everyone saw allegedly hit the Pentagon, was actually a military plane that launched a missile as it approached, then FLEW OVER the Pentagon, and then out of sight.
4. The hole in the outer wall of the Pentagon was too small to have been made by the crashing Airliner.
5. No remains of the hijackers were identified at the Pentagon site.
Topic=Flight 93
1. The calls could not have been made from the flight, as cellphone calls are impossible at cruizing altitude.
2. The calls were fabricated using voice morphing tech and actors.
3. Flight 93 was shot down by US military
4. There was no plane debris, and hence no plane crashed...at Shanksville.
Topic=Al-Qaeda/Terrorists
1. Some of the hijackers are still alive.
2. Osama Bin Laden denied he was involved in 9/11 initially, and only later in a fake tape confessed.
3. The military trained the hijackers to fly
4. The hijackers were just patsies
5. The ISI (Pakistani Intelligence) was funding the hijackers
Topic=Forwarning
1. The jewish community knew of the attacks before hand
2. Govt officials including John Ashcroft, and DF mayor Willie Brown were given warnings of the attacks, and hence did not travel via commerical flights that day.
3. The government knew where, when, and how 9/11 was going to happen.
Once again, the above is a list of topics and views that your brother will likely use, or has already used to try convince you. Look them up and be ready to argue the facts with him...You may need to give him some tough love...
TAM
gumboot
lorcutus.tolere
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2006
- Messages
- 25,327
A useful thing is to learn the CT-killer for each topic - that is the one detail that makes their entire house of cards fall down. Here's some examples:
WTC7 - the eyewitness statements by FDNY. Either they are telling the truth, and the building was severly damaged and on fire, ready to fall, or the FDNY helped destroy the building.
NORAD - NORAD's mission pre 9/11 was to patrol the ADIZ - a narrow band around the outside of the USA. NORAD had never prior to 9/11 intercepted an aircraft inside USA airspace (The Payne Stewart learjet was not intercepted by NORAD but by other USAF aircraft).
Pentagon/AA77 - hundreds of people witnessed the event. They SAW the airliner hit The Pentagon. Many specifically remember an American Airlines aircraft.
WTC collapse - FDNY had suspicions of structural integrity from an early stage and ordered evac of WTC1. NYPD aviation unit reported bowing of exterior columns and predicted "eminent collapse".
UA93 - FDR reports all systems normal at time of impact.
Al Qaeda/Terrorists - Death of all hijackers save one has been confirmed by governments of their countries and by immediate family members (family members of one refuse to confirm death as they are rabidly anti-US themselves). Martyr tapes of hijackers exist.
These, I believe, are the key facts. Cling to these like a rabid dog. It is not enough that a CTer provides their own evidence. They MUST be able to explain each of the above facts.
-Gumboot
WTC7 - the eyewitness statements by FDNY. Either they are telling the truth, and the building was severly damaged and on fire, ready to fall, or the FDNY helped destroy the building.
NORAD - NORAD's mission pre 9/11 was to patrol the ADIZ - a narrow band around the outside of the USA. NORAD had never prior to 9/11 intercepted an aircraft inside USA airspace (The Payne Stewart learjet was not intercepted by NORAD but by other USAF aircraft).
Pentagon/AA77 - hundreds of people witnessed the event. They SAW the airliner hit The Pentagon. Many specifically remember an American Airlines aircraft.
WTC collapse - FDNY had suspicions of structural integrity from an early stage and ordered evac of WTC1. NYPD aviation unit reported bowing of exterior columns and predicted "eminent collapse".
UA93 - FDR reports all systems normal at time of impact.
Al Qaeda/Terrorists - Death of all hijackers save one has been confirmed by governments of their countries and by immediate family members (family members of one refuse to confirm death as they are rabidly anti-US themselves). Martyr tapes of hijackers exist.
These, I believe, are the key facts. Cling to these like a rabid dog. It is not enough that a CTer provides their own evidence. They MUST be able to explain each of the above facts.
-Gumboot
stateofgrace
Unregistered
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- Aug 31, 2006
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- 3,843
I should imagine it does. Equally so Ronald, once armed with facts, you could just ask your brother what he thinks happened. Just a summary of the events leading up to 911, the day itself and then beyond. Many cters simply fold when they are faced with the enormity of what they are suggesting, the impossible number of people it would take to carry out and conceal such a massive conspiracy.
The conspiracy is so massively complex and relies on so many people keeping quiet, it simply would never work, let alone get off the ground.
If that fails you could also remind him that he is actually crediting the current administration with the ability to do something no other administration has ever done, that being fool the entire planet for over five years. Secrets like this rarely stay secret for long.
stilicho
Trurl's Electronic Bard
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- Feb 6, 2007
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- 4,757
These are all great help to people who know (or are related to) CT'rs.
Most of the on-line types who think UBL was 'invented' some time around SEP 12, 2001, also are unaware that he was named an unindicted co-conspirator in the 1993 WTC bombing. That doesn't mean they think he did it, but the fellow has been among a number of individuals wishing to do harm to the US and its interests.
My closest relationship to a CT'r is a half-uncle who is a Scientologist. He isn't actually all that weird but I wouldn't send him money.
Most of the on-line types who think UBL was 'invented' some time around SEP 12, 2001, also are unaware that he was named an unindicted co-conspirator in the 1993 WTC bombing. That doesn't mean they think he did it, but the fellow has been among a number of individuals wishing to do harm to the US and its interests.
My closest relationship to a CT'r is a half-uncle who is a Scientologist. He isn't actually all that weird but I wouldn't send him money.