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How do you fight?

As a post-script, I have gone to Perry's site and I find it most refreshing. It's great to see a sense of humour about all this. In fact, I find the grinding seriousness of the CT'rs somewhere between paranoia and tastelessness: ('F***! First they killed the bond traders at the WTC! Now Dick Cheney's gonna put us all in FEMA camps!!!!!')

Does anyone know a CT'r with a sense of humour? I mean, apart from being accidentally funny or merely laughable.
 
Every spec of evidence is either wrongly interpreted, or a total fabrication.
This I can definitely see in my CT'er.
It's mind blowing that they can generate theories from such a staggering lack of evidence.
His theories go beyond just 9/11. The NWO takeover is already here! ACK!

The 9/11 conspiracy theories aren't just a house of cards. They're built on a foundation of smoke and water.
And the walls are funhouse mirrors.
 
I should imagine it does. Equally so Ronald, once armed with facts, you could just ask your brother what he thinks happened. Just a summary of the events leading up to 911, the day itself and then beyond. Many cters simply fold when they are faced with the enormity of what they are suggesting, the impossible number of people it would take to carry out and conceal such a massive conspiracy.

The conspiracy is so massively complex and relies on so many people keeping quiet, it simply would never work, let alone get off the ground.

If that fails you could also remind him that he is actually crediting the current administration with the ability to do something no other administration has ever done, that being fool the entire planet for over five years. Secrets like this rarely stay secret for long.
Thanks for the golden information. Now the trick is convincing him to listen to me long enough to ask these questions. He is of the Alex Jones school, so getting a word in edge-wise is a complete ankle sprain.
 
I just kick them in the 'nads...amazing how fast that ends the debate.
Only a temporary fix. 'Nad atrophy is only a catalyst for more outrageous stories. Hell...the cell towers made me do it. I think a good cerebral pummeling would be more sufficient.
 
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Here is a list of topics that your brother will likely use to prove his story. Take them, look each of them up here, and at 911myths.com, and get all the info on them you can:

Topic = WTC Attacks/Collapse
1. WTCs were brought down by "Controlled Demolition" ie. explosives were used.
2. Marvin Bush, related to the president, was head of security at the WTC just prior to 9/11
3. No steel framed skyscraper has ever come down solely due to fire prior to 9/11.
4. People exiting the WTCs on 9/11 heard explosions, so there must have been explosives planted in the buildings.
5. the collapses alone cannot by themselves explain the pulverization of all the concrete in the WTCs
6. Fighterjets were flying over NYC and could have stopped the Airliners before they struck the WTCs.
7. The fires in the WTCs were small and spread out.
9. There was molten STEEL in the remains at GZ, proving the use of THERMITE.

Topic=WTC 7
1. WTC7 housed secret information, so the Neoncons behind 9/11 had it purposely destroyed.
2. Larry Silverstein told the Fire Captain to "Pull" the building, meaning to have it brought down by Demolition.
3. Larry Silverstein made hundreds of millions off the collapse of this building and the twin towers
4. Because it was not hit by a plane, yet it collapsed, WTC7 had to have been brought down by CD.

Topic = Pentagon Attack
1. American Airlines Flight 77 never hit the Pentagon.
2. The downed light poles were planted, like the plane parts, by the USG who were behind the attacks.
3. The plane that everyone saw allegedly hit the Pentagon, was actually a military plane that launched a missile as it approached, then FLEW OVER the Pentagon, and then out of sight.
4. The hole in the outer wall of the Pentagon was too small to have been made by the crashing Airliner.
5. No remains of the hijackers were identified at the Pentagon site.

Topic=Flight 93
1. The calls could not have been made from the flight, as cellphone calls are impossible at cruizing altitude.
2. The calls were fabricated using voice morphing tech and actors.
3. Flight 93 was shot down by US military
4. There was no plane debris, and hence no plane crashed...at Shanksville.

Topic=Al-Qaeda/Terrorists
1. Some of the hijackers are still alive.
2. Osama Bin Laden denied he was involved in 9/11 initially, and only later in a fake tape confessed.
3. The military trained the hijackers to fly
4. The hijackers were just patsies
5. The ISI (Pakistani Intelligence) was funding the hijackers

Topic=Forwarning
1. The jewish community knew of the attacks before hand
2. Govt officials including John Ashcroft, and DF mayor Willie Brown were given warnings of the attacks, and hence did not travel via commerical flights that day.
3. The government knew where, when, and how 9/11 was going to happen.


Once again, the above is a list of topics and views that your brother will likely use, or has already used to try convince you. Look them up and be ready to argue the facts with him...You may need to give him some tough love...

TAM

You and Gumboot both have given me so much to work with. I have been piecing things together myself for a few months, but it pales in comparison to the information I have gathered here in the last couple of days. My hats off to you both.
 
As a post-script, I have gone to Perry's site and I find it most refreshing. It's great to see a sense of humour about all this.
Roger that, Ghost Rider.
In fact, I find the grinding seriousness of the CT'rs somewhere between paranoia and tastelessness: ('F***! First they killed the bond traders at the WTC! Now Dick Cheney's gonna put us all in FEMA camps!!!!!')
Hmm...yep...the FEMA camps thing is a BIG part of his "theory". Find me one reasonable person that believes a buildup of NATO troops, set to take control of 300,000,000 American people, is going to be easy to hide? Laughable.
 
I've only talked to a one and he wasn't educated at all.
I just asked for facts, not assumptions. He never really could debate me, his favorite line was "A Boeing would do more damage, it was a missile." Didn't even know what kind of Boeing struck the Pentagon, really sad...
 
Roger that, Ghost Rider. Hmm...yep...the FEMA camps thing is a BIG part of his "theory". Find me one reasonable person that believes a buildup of NATO troops, set to take control of 300,000,000 American people, is going to be easy to hide? Laughable.

Correction, Roland.

Conspiracists faithfully believe that it will be UN troops herding you all into FEMA camps.

Think about that the next time you see a UNICEF kid at your door on Hallowe'en.
 
Topic=WTC 7
1. WTC7 housed secret information, so the Neoncons behind 9/11 had it purposely destroyed.

TAM

One of my favourites.

WTC7 housed the 'secret' SEC files (ostensibly the only ones in existence) on Enron, Global Crossing and WorldCom. Larry "Pull It" Silverstein had it destroyed so none of the indictments would be pursued.

Wrong.

People are going to jail anyhow over those corporate crimes.

Those neocons are just the gang that can't shoot straight. First they kill good Republicans at Cantor Fitzgerald and then they can't save Bernie Ebbers from a 25-year prison term.
 
Thanks for the golden information. Now the trick is convincing him to listen to me long enough to ask these questions. He is of the Alex Jones school, so getting a word in edge-wise is a complete ankle sprain.

Ha,this one is easy, simply say `I am a JREFer.........`I should imagine this would get his attention.;) ;)
 
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Correction, Roland.

Conspiracists faithfully believe that it will be UN troops herding you all into FEMA camps.

Think about that the next time you see a UNICEF kid at your door on Hallowe'en.


Thanks for the correction. I would have said that to him; he would have picked it apart.

[laughing uncontrollably] kidsforUNtakeover.com[/laughing uncontrollably]
 
Ha,this one is easy, simply say `I am a JREFer.........`I should imagine this would get his attention.;) ;)
If he doesn't know about JREF, he will! However, I'm not going to mention it to him yet (more ammo first), as he will come here with a closed mind, berate everyone and get suspended. The suspension will be blamed on the NWO and Illuminati. Its part of their big plan to keep his "mini Alex Jones" butt repressed and keep him from posting information from the "secret" websites he and Alex Jones are privvy to.
 
I've only talked to a one and he wasn't educated at all.
I just asked for facts, not assumptions. He never really could debate me, his favorite line was "A Boeing would do more damage, it was a missile." Didn't even know what kind of Boeing struck the Pentagon, really sad...
It becomes quite absurd doesn't it? Each day brings a new level of confidence for me as I information gather. First order of business is to gather information from many of the wonderful sites debunking "Loose Change". Thats what got my CT'er started in the beginning of July 2006.
 
Hi, Roland, welcome to the forum. After reading your post about your brother, I should warn you of one thing - don't expect too much too soon. Your brother seems to be deeply into the 9/11 and Alex Jones stuff and such types don't change their opinion very easily. No amount amount of clear evidence to the contrary seems to be able persuade them they are wrong. Around these parts, 9/11 conspiracy theory is often called the cult of 9/11 and its members, like other cults members, can be highly resistant to the rational world outside the cult. The road to getting your brother back may be a long one.
 
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Hi, Roland, welcome to the forum. After reading your post about your brother, I should warn you of one thing - don't expect too much too soon. Your brother seems to be deeply into the 9/11 and Alex Jones stuff and such types don't change their opinion very easily. No amount amount of clear evidence to the contrary seems to be able persuade them they are wrong. Around these parts, 9/11 conspiracy theory is often called the cult of 9/11 and its members, like other cults members, can be highly resistant to the rational world outside the cult. The road to getting your brother back may be a long one.
Hi Sleahead and thanks for the welcome. He is in extremely deep (we use the CULT reference often), and I have come to the realization that I may be doing this for a long time. I also understand the possibility of never getting through to him.

Thanks for the support Sleahead. I don't need to be softened up or coddled. Your honesty is exactly what people like me need. People try to handle us with kids gloves. If you see me slipping, let me fall. Then point out my mistake.
 
That's a mystery to me, son...

I don't think that's so much a comment on the prowess of the American guys as it is a comment on the girls in Christchurch... ;)

They have quite the reputation.

-Gumboot

I wouldn't know. My fiancee flew down from New York to marry me in Christchurch, because we could do it for $450 and no blood test, in the gardens near my apartment. Five days later, my father died back in New York. Some week.

We had a party that night and Kats went home to finish her job and pack out her apartment. I flew home for a reception two months later. We had a nice big reception in Palisades Park...and then the next day, we had the memorial for my father. I had folks attending both events. From celebrating a wedding to mourning a death in 24 hours. That was a bizarre weekend.

However, one time I rode a bus home from work and two girls got on at the hotel near the airport, and one of them blurted out to me that she had just spent the entire night with her boyfriend, while her girlfriend was on the next bed with her boyfriend. It was something both of them wanted to brag about to total strangers.

I really didn't know what to say. :boggled:
 
A useful thing is to learn the CT-killer for each topic - that is the one detail that makes their entire house of cards fall down. Here's some examples:

WTC7 - the eyewitness statements by FDNY. Either they are telling the truth, and the building was severly damaged and on fire, ready to fall, or the FDNY helped destroy the building.

NORAD - NORAD's mission pre 9/11 was to patrol the ADIZ - a narrow band around the outside of the USA. NORAD had never prior to 9/11 intercepted an aircraft inside USA airspace (The Payne Stewart learjet was not intercepted by NORAD but by other USAF aircraft).

Pentagon/AA77 - hundreds of people witnessed the event. They SAW the airliner hit The Pentagon. Many specifically remember an American Airlines aircraft.

WTC collapse - FDNY had suspicions of structural integrity from an early stage and ordered evac of WTC1. NYPD aviation unit reported bowing of exterior columns and predicted "eminent collapse".

UA93 - FDR reports all systems normal at time of impact.

Al Qaeda/Terrorists - Death of all hijackers save one has been confirmed by governments of their countries and by immediate family members (family members of one refuse to confirm death as they are rabidly anti-US themselves). Martyr tapes of hijackers exist.

These, I believe, are the key facts. Cling to these like a rabid dog. It is not enough that a CTer provides their own evidence. They MUST be able to explain each of the above facts.

-Gumboot

Thank you Gumboot. These are going to be main keys for me. I have scanned SOOOOO much information! Separating the baloney from the filet is proving to be a major undertaking. Thank goodness for places like this.
 
Welcome aboard, Roland

You have my sympathies in dealing with your brother. It's unfortunate that this idiocy divides families.

Remember that a family is a club we have to join, whether or not we wanted to.

You might, in addition to the material above, point out to your brother how many times in human history there have been opportunities for the glorious New World Order conspiracy (and it's the same conspiracy all through, it just changes names to fit present politics) has been on the edge of taking over everything, but somehow failed. Look at the nutty stuff put out in the 1920s by Henry Ford about "The International Jew." It's exactly the same as the anti-Semitic drivel of today, with just the names changed.

Look at how the NWO had chances to take over or end the world in times of revolution (1848), two World Wars, a Great Depression, a Cold War, and at the end of the Cold War. But it never happened. 1932 would have been a perfect time to impose dictatorship on the West, but it didn't happen. The Americans could have imposed Pax Americana on the world in 1945 with a few atomic attacks, but didn't. The world could have ended numerous times during the Cold War, but it didn't. And all the pundits who warned of the inevitability of a Communist takeover were wrong.

Heck, remember Y2K? That didn't happen, either!

So this grand conspiracy is darned inefficient, sloppy, and clearly not able to control anything beyond the imaginations of the CTers.

We've got your back.
 
Hi Roland, hopefully your brother will listen to you, and I'm very sorry to hear about this. I would be repeating information if I were to tell you what to do. The JREFers here know what they're doing, and hopefully your brother will let logic and understanding flow through him.

You might want to ask your brother to find a bill that could have been passed by the US congress which allowed the spending of literally trillions of dollars to keep the 9/11 attacks a secret to all those who were qualified to make these kinds of assumptions.
 

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