Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
Then help me out, because I can't discern it. Where is the evidence that the 9/11 attacks were a false flag operation.
How do Truthers explain the cooperation/coordination needed within the US govt...
- Thread starter Allen773
- Start date
Cosmic Yak
Philosopher
If it was a pre-planned false flag operation, how could it have been unexpected?
bknight
Master Poster
There is no evidence and only exist in the minds of CTs.
trustbutverify
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- May 5, 2007
- Messages
- 10,541
From what I've been able to gather, it's a long list of supposed incongruities which sound impressive when recited in toto, but collapse (no pun intended) when examined individually by experts. Wishful thinking takes the true believers the rest of the way. Basically the same quality of evidence that exists for the faked moon landing fantasy.
Axxman300
Philosopher
My favorite take came from someone on Twitter who said that people who believe in CTs like 911 Truthers do have never had the pleasure of being a Project Manager for a medium or large company.
bknight
Master Poster
Of course not, for then the CTs would have to think and plan and then supervise the execution of the plan.
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through
It's worth mentioning that most, if not all, of these supposed incongruities are simply made up. There's a dangerous tendency to respond to 9/11 truthers asking questions like "How do you explain the fact that [x] happened on 9/11" with an attempt at explaining why [x] isn't implausible enough to imply a massive conspiracy, when in fact the true, and simpler, answer is almost always "[x] didn't, in fact, happen on 9/11." It's been described as 9/11 conspiracy theories being not just wrong, but fractally wrong; they tend to be wrong when viewed at any level of detail, from overview to minutiae.
Dave
bknight
Master Poster
Seems like a common thread of all CTs, make up stories that fit a CT but none of the stories really happened in that manner.
Fonebone
persona non grata
bknight
Master Poster
Of course not, for then the CTs would have to think and plan and then supervise the execution of the plan.
Already done that. And that would apply to you as well.
tanabear
Critical Thinker
Ignorance isn't always bliss.
Steve Sailer has remarked on how it is now fashionable, amongst the denizens of the Left, to be ignorant on many topics. Political correctness is a war on noticing things you aren't suppose to notice. This attitude seems to be quite common with the commenters here.
Almost anyone can be a Nazi today. It is just like being a "racist", just tell some truths that Liberals don't like and Boom - Nazi. What is the criteria for being a Nazi today?
Wearing Polos = Nazi
Having blonde hair = Nazi
Being white = Nazi
Being a black conservative woman = Nazi *
Being opposed to our wars in the Middle East = Nazi **
Believing there are only two genders = Nazi ***
Believing in Freedom of Speech = Nazi ***
*See Candace Owens
** See Newsweek on Tucker Carlson
*** See any college campus
Wow, the Nazi Party (NSDAP) has not been around since 1945 but somehow they are responsible for or dreamt up the 9/11 attacks. I believe Hitler was probably reacting to the fire-bombing of Dresden more than he was planning or wanting a 9/11 style attack on America.
But when it comes to suicide attacks with airplanes no one has the Japs beat; not Al-Qaeda, ISIS nor Hezbollah. I believe there were almost 3,000 kamikaze attacks by the Japs on the US Navy in WWII. But we can't talk about them being crazy fanatics anymore because they are a non-white ethnic group; you know the word, stigma.
Because there are so many moving parts to 9/11 this makes it much easier to discern its false-flag nature compared to a simple bombing. It was really a Sloppy Joe inside job. But we all know the evidence; the demolition of WTC7, the destruction of WTC 1 and 2; and the people celebrating the attacks as it happened, known affectionately as the 'Dancing Israelis'.
Comparing a Project Manager for a medium or large company to the inner workings of the Mossad is ridiculous. In my prior comment I mentioned how I came across a bit of information that I had not been aware of until recently. It was from Ron Unz's American Pravda series on Mossad assassinations.
"... plans were put into motion for the huge bombing of an entire Beirut sports stadium using tons of explosives during a January 1st political ceremony,...But Sharon’s political enemies learned of the plot and emphasized that many foreign diplomats including the Soviet ambassador were expected to be present and probably would be killed, so after a bitter debate, Prime Minister Begin ordered the attack aborted. A future Mossad chief mentions the major headaches they then faced in removing the large quantity of explosives that they had already planted within the structure."
I found this revealing because it shows a precedent for large scale false-flag attacks where explosives are surreptitiously placed in a structure or building.
Ron Unz: "I think that this thoroughly documented history of Israeli major false-flag terrorist attacks, including those against American and other Western targets, should be carefully kept in mind when we consider the 9/11 attacks..."
Yep.
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through
Thank you, the first and third of those are pretty much perfect examples.
Dave
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
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- 18,903
Poisoning the Well
Bunch of Strawmen
Another Strawman.
Irrelevant.
Guess who the Japanese were allied with?
How would you characterize the ruling ideology that led to Japan invading China and parts of Southeastern Asia?
Bare assertion.
Assuming the consequent
How do you suppose Mossad does projects?
Or would you prefer to compare Mossad to a small company?
You repeated bare assertion by this Mr. Unz.
Now where is some of this pesky stuff we call "evidence" 'round here?
Oh look - I quoted practically everything you wrote - and all of it is either fallacious outright, irrelevant, or not supported by evidence.
Allen773
Graduate Poster
I’m inclined to agree, but what do the Mossad have to do with 9/11?
Allen773
Graduate Poster
Not as peculiar as Nazi sympathizers denying the Holocaust...
Axxman300
Philosopher
That's an interesting leap.
A smart person would have simply pointed out Unz is half-Jewish, and cannot be a Nazi no matter how hard he defends them.
Not what he said, and Dresden was a central railway hub.
Japs? Who calls them Japs anymore? That's right - racists.
And yet after 19 years there is no proof of anyone other than Al Qaeda involved.
Thanks for playing.
Please describe - in detail - the inner workings of Mossad, and how it is different from a medium or large company. While you're at it, detail the CIA, MI6, and FSB's inner workings as well so we can all bask in your vast knowledge of covert agencies.
tanabear
Critical Thinker
Ron Unz was relaying information from the book Rise and Kill First by New York Times reporter Ronen Bergman.
- WINNER OF THE NATIONAL JEWISH BOOK AWARD IN HISTORY
- NAMED ONE OF THE BEST BOOKS OF THE YEAR BY The Economist • The New York Times Book Review • BBC History Magazine • Mother Jones • Kirkus Reviews
- “Leading any list of notable nonfiction books—Jewish or not—must be Ronen Bergman’s Rise and Kill First, a massive and extravagantly well-sourced history of the use of the tool of assassination by Israel’s intelligence services. . . . One’s mouth is often agape with amazement, even shock, while reading.”—Haaretz
- “Ronen Bergman has set out in incontestable detail the history and scale of Israel’s use of extrajudicial killing as an instrument of defense and foreign policy. His material is stark and sensational, but he steers a steady course through it, even pausing along the way to debate the effectiveness and morality of his subject. The result is a compelling read whatever your point of view.”—John le Carré
If you wish to say that this book is entirely fictional then I suppose you are free to do so. But as ignorance and incuriosity reign supreme among the Skeptics, anything that challenges their existing worldview is instantly dismissed with "no evidence."
I mentioned one incident which seemed germane to 9/11; the plot for a huge bombing of an entire Beirut sports stadium.
You also commented on Ron Unz's "bare assertion" regarding the history of Israeli/Zionist terrorist attacks against US and western targets. Would you classify these events as "bare assertions" or historical events:
- The 1946 bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem by Zionist militants dressed as Arabs, which killed 91 people and largely destroyed the structure.
- The famous Lavon Affair of 1954, where Israeli agents launched a wave of terrorist attacks against Western targets in Egypt, intending to have those blamed on anti-Western Arab groups.
- In 1967, Israel launched a deliberate air and sea attack against the U.S.S. Liberty, intending to leave no survivors, and ultimately killing or wounding over 200 American servicemen.
- The Zionist assassinations of Britain’s Lord Moyne Walter Guinness in 1944.
- The Zionist assassination of U.N. Peace Negotiator Count Folke Bernadotte.
The natural response to seeing the events of 9/11 would be shock and horror. If you go back and watch the coverage from that day that is exactly what you see. Except there was one small group of people that seemed elated by the event; happy and joyous. These people have become known as the Dancing Israelis.
"A homemaker living near Liberty State Park, Jersey City, New Jersey sees three men behaving strangely on a nearby roof and alerts the authorities. This homemaker, who has given only her first name Maria, is called by a neighbor shortly after the first plane has hit the WTC and is told about the impact. She has a view of the WTC from her apartment building so she gets her binoculars and watches the disaster. However, she also notices three young men kneeling on the roof of a white van in the parking lot of her apartment building. Maria will later recall, “They seemed to be taking a movie.” They are taking video or photos of themselves with the WTC burning in the background. But what strikes Maria is their expressions: “They were like happy, you know… They didn’t look shocked to me. I thought it was very strange."
"The FBI issues a BOLO (be on lookout) bulletin for three suspicious men who were seen leaving the New Jersey waterfront minutes after the first hijacked plane hit the WTC...Five Israelis are arrested for “puzzling behavior” related to the WTC attacks. Shortly after an FBI lookout bulletin was issued for a van with the words “Urban Moving Systems”...The FBI will later conclude at least two of the five are Mossad agents and that all were on a Mossad surveillance mission. The FBI interrogates them for weeks."
History Commons
Amazing, members of the Mossad have foreknowledge of and are celebrating the 9/11 attacks on America as they happen. That is just the kind of behavior we expect from our "greatest ally" in the Middle-East.
Axxman300
Philosopher
1. Mossad is cool.
2. Attacking the US, their most important ally, would be a mistake.
3. They likely passed along intelligence about an upcoming attack to the US which was ignored, a number of foreign agencies did the same thing.
4. Nothing the US has done since 9/11/2001 has made Israel any more secure. In fact, our wars have put Iran's striking ability closer to Israel than it was in 2001.
2. Attacking the US, their most important ally, would be a mistake.
3. They likely passed along intelligence about an upcoming attack to the US which was ignored, a number of foreign agencies did the same thing.
4. Nothing the US has done since 9/11/2001 has made Israel any more secure. In fact, our wars have put Iran's striking ability closer to Israel than it was in 2001.
Prove it...