How do pagans celebrate Christmas?

Complexity said:
kurious kathy - What a tacky thread title!

I can almost see the smug snear on your face when you ejaculate the word 'pagan'.

Assuming that you consider me to be one of your pet pagans:

I don't 'celebrate' Christmas.
I don't believe that Christmas is the anniversary of the birth of that kid.
I don't care whether that kid actually existed.

I will be celebrating the anniversary of Isaac Newton this December 25.
I will sleep in on December 25.
I will treat myself to a nice breakfast on December 25.
I will treat myself to a Christian-free day on December 25.
I will read and thoroughly enjoy something from the scientific literature on December 25.
I will watch a movie or so on December 25, preferably ones that would make you cringe.

I can go into more detail if you like, kurious kathy.
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Nicely said. I too celebrate both Isaac Newton's birthday and the Winter Solstice - let the cycle of renewal begin once again. And I don't mind 'the old elf' (UPS) exchanging friend's and relative's gifts.
 
Well, isn't this sweet? Kurious Kathy, another hit-and-run psychofundie, screaming her "faith," then running away and ignoring the whole thread she got started when people start to give intelligent answers to her selfish, rude, insulting openning thread, "La-la-la! I can't hear you!"

Hateful slut. Go yuck forself.
 
I thought the idea of gift giving started with gifts of food in old Germany, the Victorians, fun folks that they were, simplky co-opted it into their own devices.


But I could be wrong.

Oh, and it's all Christian symbolism, BTW. Crosses are of course Christian...until you realize that people had been using crosses as warding symbols for a thousand years beforetime.
 
According to Wiki, the old Yule celebration was:

... known to have included the sacrifice of a pig for the god Freyr, a tradition which survives in the Scandinavian Christmas ham.

So eating ham is not a tribute to a Jewish boy's birth, but to the god Freyr.

I think kurious_kathy honestly believed there was no celebration in the pagan traditions at this time of year. I think every aspect of our Christmas celebrations have their roots in pre-Christian traditions, except for the Nativity story. I know that didn't take place at this time of year but is still a story of rebirth and fit in well with the various pagan solstice celebrations.
 
bjb said:
So eating ham is not a tribute to a Jewish boy's birth, but to the god Freyr.
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Well then, I shall enjoy it for two reasons. One as a tribute (Freyr) and one an insult (Jesus).

Actually, to be perfectly honest, we tend toward a Christmas ham cause after the Thanksgiving glut of turkey, we're sick of it. And ham, especailly the honey cured spiral cut ones are really yummy. :lipsmack:
 
Did you leave the forum for a few weeks while you thought up that pithy, life-changing kwestion, kathy?

I don't celebrate Christmas. I barely tolerate it. Blech.
 
clarsct said:
I thought the idea of gift giving started with gifts of food in old Germany, the Victorians, fun folks that they were, simplky co-opted it into their own devices.
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It was Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg-G_tha (and of eponymous device) who introduced a lot of the Traditional British Christmas. This was back in BTV times, when people watched the Royal Family (aka "The Germans" to the more established British aristocracy) equally avidly. To a burgeoning consumer-society the new traditions were a godsend.
 
kurious_kathy said:
I want to know where is Christ is at Christmas? Look around our world. People all caught up in superficiality. I want this, give me that. The true spirit of Christmas is Christ. It's a time to remember the one who came to save us. Jesus was born so that all could be reconciled to God. The sins of this dark world He bore for each of us. Jesus is the reason for the season!
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Well I ask you to consider the fact that early christians celebrated jesus's birthday at what time?

Easter, it is said that he was born and died on the same day.

Christmas is stolen from the solstice and mithra's birthday.

I, a pagan, celebrate xmas by roasting a baby and dancing around the xmas tree naked.
 
CapelDodger said:
Gross calumny and slander, which you narrowly avoided making. Arguably.

Menstrual blood is the charm, not sacrificial blood. At Spring Equinox. :rolleyes:

Sacrifical virgin blood - euphemised via "transsubstantiation" and the implicit assumption that Jebus, like, never got no action? - is more of a Christian obsession.
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MMMM moon cookies!
 
kurious_kathy said:
There is only one God! The others are demons who try to trick people. I have heard of many Wiccans and Satanist being turned around by the power of the one true God, Jesus. The only way to the Father is through the Son.
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If you were brave you could meet a lot more pagans, the wierd thing is most of us come from religious families, and many cases were the religous ones to begin with.

I just find all the hate filled back stabbing of the teachings of yeshuah promulgated by paul and that total dingwad peter to be abysmal.

You kathy are so obviously full of hate and fear that jesus would touch you with a ten foor pole.

I was a xian, until I found out that most preachers did not live the life that christ advised.

Turn your heart from fear and hate if you wish to follow jesus.

BTW: Silly Solstice! The gods and goddesses love you just the way you are, but they wish you were happier.

The one tue god is LA and not yshua or yhvh.

La la la la la la la la.

I celebrate xmas with a tree and presents and some really heavy fat laden food topped with sugar. Then I am grateful that the daughter is reborn and the sun will return.

Peace to you and yours!
 
kurious_kathy said:
I want to know where is Christ is at Christmas? Look around our world. People all caught up in superficiality. I want this, give me that. The true spirit of Christmas is Christ. It's a time to remember the one who came to save us. Jesus was born so that all could be reconciled to God. The sins of this dark world He bore for each of us. Jesus is the reason for the season!
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Dear Ms. O'Reilly,

"Christmas" is nothing more than the astronomical fact that the shortest day of the year was previously a feasting day for many religions and cultures, and Christians thought to exterminte their beliefs by making their feasting day into a fasting day.

For a religion that is so opposed to untruth, how can you explain this wholesale theft of a previous culture?
 
Hey, however you celebrate Christmas, knock yourself out.

What makes a difference is how you spend the other 364 years. And a craven like Kathy will NEVER GET THAT!
 
Kathy, I hate to tell you, but the day you so reverently celebrate as your savior's b-day was picked in the 4th century... by Roman Catholics no less:jaw-dropp

There is NO biblical basis or other substantiation of any link to the Christ's supposed birth. As a matter of fact, Biblical historians and scholars are almost unanimous in placing Jesus' birth in the spring, mid-April being the general concensus AFAIK.

The only real debate on the issue that I'm aware of is whether the choice was a deliberate attempt to usurp various pagan celebrations or more of a concessionary attempt to annex Christ's birth event to much older traditions that the people would not relinquish.

Moreover, the celebration of Christmas as this ultimately holy event, as this supremely important occasion is an even more recent invention. The Pilgims and early colonists (your Protestant forefathers) refused to even observe it due to it's pagan roots and unseemly cheerfulness. It was even illegal to celebrate:

"For preventing disorders, arising in several places within this jurisdiction by reason of some still observing such festivals as were superstitiously kept in other communities, to the great dishonor of God and offense of others: it is therefore ordered by this court and the authority thereof that whosoever shall be found observing any such day as Christmas or the like, either by forbearing of labor, feasting, or any other way, upon any such account as aforesaid, every such person so offending shall pay for every such offence five shilling as a fine to the county."

- From the records of the General Court, Massachusetts Bay Colony, May 11, 1659.
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wwwdotrinderpestdotcom/christlessmasdothtml

Now, I understand that the general tone of that article may put you off, but you can check the quote's validity, and that of Christmas' origins easily enough by Googling or spending some quality time at your local public or academic library. This time of year has been celebrated and revered for several times the number of years it's had any relevance from a christian perspective. It's a very interesting topic, I highly recommend doing some research on it purely for it's historical richness.

I in no way want to disparage or discourage the significance you personally put on the birth and subsequent life of Jesus... celebrate it, venerate it, whatever/however you want... but the it's your traditions, your beliefs that are the new kid on the block, regardless of what your pastor or Bill O'Reilly would have you believe.

That said, superficiality and greed are bad... and not just on a legendary teacher/prophet/insurrectionist/martyr's birthday, but year-round.


Merry Christmas, Happy Solstice, and a Joyous Yule ! :xgrin :xsnowman :xsmiley
 
Rufo said:
As so often in biblic matters - it's a matter of interpretation. The word "elohim" sure is plural, but the surrounding words referring to it (adjectives, etc.) indicates singular. This has made most translators interpret it as a 'majestic we' (a bit similar to the 'royal we') and that it's actually referring to just one God.

I'm not saying this is a more correct interpretation, but please, stop referring to this as fact!
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Well as you say that facts seem to be in some dispute:

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9032466
singular Eloah (Hebrew: God), the God of Israel in the Old Testament. A plural of majesty, the term Elohim—though sometimes used for other deities, such as the Moabite god Chemosh, the Sidonian goddess Astarte, and also for other majestic beings such as angels, kings, judges (the Old Testament shofetim), and the Messiah—is usually employed in the Old Testament for the one and only God of Israel, whose personal name was revealed to Moses as YHWH, (q.v.). When referring to Yahweh, elohim very often is accompanied by the article ha-, to mean, in combination, “the God,” and sometimes with a further identification Elohim hayyim, meaning “the living God.”
Though Elohim is plural in form, it is understood in the singular sense. Thus, in Genesis the words, “In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth,” Elohim is monotheistic in connotation, though its grammatical structure seems polytheistic. The Israelites probably borrowed the Canaanite plural noun Elohim and made it singular in meaning in their cultic practices and theological reflections.
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We have to very careful because the current modern form of the hebrai tradition was filtered to remove the polytheistic elements of the hebrai and caanan blendings, there are those who claim the current modern rabbinical tradition is actively suppressing the dead sea scroll because they are not abot montheistic essenes but about polytheistic saducees.

I agree with you that we have to be careful but we also need to be mindful that even prior to the babylonian exile there was some heavy editing of the hebrai oral tradition.
 
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