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How could a feng shui test be devised?

Cavemonster said:
Rudeboy-

I'm sorry, this is a skeptics forum. All respectable studies I've seen show that acupuncture doesn't perform any better than plscebo/fake acupuncture. If you want anyone here to take you seriously, you'll have to find an actual published study that backs up your claim.
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Gee, majority of sceptics are lazy. If you were seriously interested,
you'd find these on the web because I've seen such information. I
don't have time to cater to you people because I have my own life to
lead and I'd rather spend the time studying facts, not sceptics' superstitions

i cannot post links yet but here is an excert:

What is the evidence?

Available scientific evidence does not support claims that acupuncture is effective as a treatment for cancer, but it appears it may be useful as a complementary method for relieving some symptoms related to cancer and other conditions.

Acupuncture has been the subject of many clinical studies. A recent analysis of 11 studies looked at the effect of acupuncture in reducing nausea and vomiting related to chemotherapy. The report suggested that acupuncture may reduce the vomiting that occurs shortly after chemotherapy is given, even though it had little effect on nausea. It also didn't seem to help vomiting that happened later (delayed vomiting.)


A small clinical trial found acupuncture helped reduce the number of hot flashes men experienced during hormonal therapy for prostate cancer. There is also some evidence that acupuncture may lessen the need for pain medicines. A study of headache sufferers compared acupuncture with standard medical treatment. Those treated with acupuncture used less pain medicines and missed fewer work days. However, some recent studies of acupuncture have had mixed or uncertain results. Part of the problem is that it’s hard to come up with good control procedures (sham acupuncture) for scientific comparisons.


A number of studies have looked at acupuncture for helping smokers quit. Experts reviewed studies in which acupuncture was used to help reduce the withdrawal symptoms from quitting smoking. When the studies were analyzed as a group, the evidence suggested that sham acupuncture (placebo) worked as well as real acupuncture for smoking cessation. Similar results were found when studies of acupuncture for cocaine withdrawal were analyzed.


Although the scientific evidence is not strong, acupuncture may prove to be useful by itself or combined with mainstream therapies to treat headache, menstrual cramps, tennis elbow, fibromyalgia, myofascial pain, osteoarthritis, lower back pain, carpal tunnel syndrome and asthma, and to help in the rehabilitation of stroke patients. Further research is needed in these areas.


Controlled clinical studies of electroacupuncture have suggested that it may help some people with pain after surgery, some of the nausea related to chemotherapy, and renal colic (pain from kidney stones.) However, it was found ineffective in a study that compared it to conventional anesthesia during in vitro fertilization (IVF).
 
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rudeboy said:
If you were seriously interested, you'd find these on the web because I've seen such information.
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And yet no-one who has come here and claimed such information exists (and you are the latest in a long line) had ever been able to point to any that stands up to scrutiny. Check any previous thread on the subject and see how the "lazy" sceptics patiently investigate and demolish it.
 
Pixel42 said:
And yet no-one who has come here and claimed such information exists (and you are the latest in a long line) had ever been able to point to any that stands up to scrutiny. Check any previous thread on the subject and see how the "lazy" sceptics patiently investigate and demolish it.
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try
mbmc dot org/healthgate/GetHGContent.aspx?token=9c315661-83b7-472d-a7ab-bc8582171f86&chunkiid=155244
 
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Pixel42 said:
And yet no-one who has come here and claimed such information exists (and you are the latest in a long line) had ever been able to point to any that stands up to scrutiny. Check any previous thread on the subject and see how the "lazy" sceptics patiently investigate and demolish it.
Click to expand...

From a friend:

My father, a medical doctor with good international reputation,
taught us that we must beware Western medical establishment, because
the doctors don't actually know much more about health and sickness
than "ordinary" people. Considering that at least 80% of the Western
doctors I've encountered during my life, either mis-diagnosed or were
totally unable to diagnose my problems, and accordingly gave harmful
medicine or no treatment at all, the studies about natural methods
look very positive.

My father told me never to subject myself to anything that is not
absolutely necessary and his knowledge was based on doctor's practice
both here and in the States, where he learned about the most blatant
violations towards human health and dignity - something which also is
not anymore a secret if one cares to find out about it. Remember the
case of the 6 men who went into coma when they were given "tested,
safe" medicine? They will never be functional in their lives - not
because of their original sickness but as a result of Western
"scientific" medicine. They got into the news, because the case was
so remarkable and made good news, but every second people all over
the world suffer and/or die because of incorrect use of incorrect
Western diagnosis and Western medicine.

Somehow Western sceptics have never anything to say about all the
Western medication, which in large part depends on "belief" - at its
best not doing anything, at its worst destroying health or killing -
plenty of verification available for anybody who wants to make an
*objective* study, but sceptics of natural medicine close their eyes
from this - as you do when you read the articles which you sent me.
You read it with one intention and ignore whatever there goes against
your conviction.

This is very tiresome. I don't force anybody to believe anything,; I
hope the same courtesy from others. I have given you some
information you could use in your studies but what you do with the
information is up to you. I
 
Rudeboy-
Every day, there are multiple claims here, from psychic healing to alternate history. They would all be very interesting if they were true, but a complete waste of time if, as most of them are, they are lies and misapprehension.

That's why we put the burden of proof on people who come here with claims. We don't infringe your right to believe what you wish, although skeptics tend to advocate that everyone measure their beliefs against evidence, that's our belief and we take it pretty seriously.

Acupuncture has been brought up here before, many times. Try a search of the forum. For us to go out looking for evidence of your claim now would be a bit like coming running when the boy cries "Wolf!" for about the 1millionth time. Come here with solid evidence for your claims or they will be shot down. We'd love to see proof of acupuncture, homeopathy, or psychic healing working. Any of these would make the world a better place if they actually worked.
 
rudeboy said:
From a friend:

My father, a medical doctor with good international reputation,
taught us that we must beware Western medical establishment, because
the doctors don't actually know much more about health and sickness
than "ordinary" people. Considering that at least 80% of the Western
doctors I've encountered during my life, either mis-diagnosed or were
totally unable to diagnose my problems, and accordingly gave harmful
medicine or no treatment at all, the studies about natural methods
look very positive.

My father told me never to subject myself to anything that is not
absolutely necessary and his knowledge was based on doctor's practice
both here and in the States, where he learned about the most blatant
violations towards human health and dignity - something which also is
not anymore a secret if one cares to find out about it. Remember the
case of the 6 men who went into coma when they were given "tested,
safe" medicine? They will never be functional in their lives - not
because of their original sickness but as a result of Western
"scientific" medicine. They got into the news, because the case was
so remarkable and made good news, but every second people all over
the world suffer and/or die because of incorrect use of incorrect
Western diagnosis and Western medicine.

Somehow Western sceptics have never anything to say about all the
Western medication, which in large part depends on "belief" - at its
best not doing anything, at its worst destroying health or killing -
plenty of verification available for anybody who wants to make an
*objective* study, but sceptics of natural medicine close their eyes
from this - as you do when you read the articles which you sent me.
You read it with one intention and ignore whatever there goes against
your conviction.

This is very tiresome. I don't force anybody to believe anything,; I
hope the same courtesy from others. I have given you some
information you could use in your studies but what you do with the
information is up to you. I
Click to expand...

Why should we believe you or your father. All I see are stories with no more substance than the boogyman.

Your implication that we need to do "studies" is condescending and rude.
 
rudeboy said:
Remember the case of the 6 men who went into coma when they were given "tested, safe" medicine?
Click to expand...


No, but do you remember the case of 600,000 people whose lives were dramatically improved because of properly tested, safe medicine? The vast majority of medicines are safe for the vast majority of patients when these drugs are taken in an appropriate manner.

Furthermore, one is left to wonder why western medicine's approach to cancer has survival rates many time higher than alternative medicine's approach.

rudeboy said:
This is very tiresome. I don't force anybody to believe anything,; I
hope the same courtesy from others.
Click to expand...

And we don't force anyone to believe anything either. We are, however interested in the evidence that you used to determine the effectiveness of non-western treatments.

As for the tone that sometimes arises in threads like this one, that may be the result of people dying because they forgo proven treatments and instead focus on alternative medicine.
 
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tsig said:
Why should we believe you or your father. All I see are stories with no more substance than the boogyman.

Your implication that we need to do "studies" is condescending and rude.
Click to expand...

its not my dad but the dad of the person who told me theres evidence for acunpuncture. But so far i dont see that evidence. Shes leaving me embarrassed before the skeptics
 
rudeboy said:
its not my dad but the dad of the person who told me theres evidence for acunpuncture. But so far i dont see that evidence. Shes leaving me embarrassed before the skeptics
Click to expand...

Don't stress too much, I've been left out to dry by relying on second hand info more than once as well.

It's a bad habit, and one that folks here getting on my case has helped to break me of. I actually value the hostility here more than the friendliness, it's through trial by fire that I challenge my own beliefs and learn to be rigorous in what I accept.
 
rudeboy said:
Remember the case of the 6 men who went into coma when they were given "tested, safe" medicine?
Click to expand...

There are two important points here. Firstly, the safety and/or efficiacy of one branch of medicine has exactly nothing to do with the safety and efficiacy of any other branch. If one particular treatment is shown to be dangerous or useless, that does not imply that all other treatments must be as well. And it certainly does not somehow imply that nonsensical mysticism must be true.

Secondly, I assume this is refering to this trial, in which a new, experimental, untested drug was being in fact being tested in humans for the first time. I'm not exactly sure what definition of tested and safe this person is using, but it doesn't appear to bear any relation to the real world.

Finally, please note that this thread is about feng shui. Discussions of acupuncture, the evils of western medicine and so on should be taken elsewhere.
 
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