How could a feng shui test be devised?

[GzuzKryzt]

Good enough?

http://www.searo.who.int/en/Section1257/Section2181/Section2211/Section2213_11336.htm

http://whqlibdoc.who.int/publications/2004/9241546433_report1.pdf

There are plenty more there.

Like i said, you got to remove the hype first. I'm not attempting to defend the disinformation because there is no defense to it.

From the first link: "(...)Empirical and scientific evidence exists to support the benefits of acupuncture, manual therapies and several medicinal plants for chronic or mild conditions. For instance, the effectiveness of acupuncture, a popular treatment for relieving pain, has been demonstrated both through numerous clinical trials and laboratory experiments. As a result, 90% of pain clinics in the United Kingdom and 70% in Germany include acupuncture as a form of treatment.(...)"

Another statement, but not evidence. I was thinking more of a documentation of e.g. clinical trials.

From the second link: "(...)Although the researchers tried their best to take measures to perfect the design and to reduce possible bias, the SARS studies were generally initiated urgently under the most severe conditions of the outbreak. A lack of medical resources meant the clinical workload was very heavy. The clinical research on SARS has encountered many difficulties that have not been met before in normal clinical research.(...)"

Ultimately useless, since the study was unable to document a specific efficacy.



I do agree with Cuddles.

 

[Sherman Bay]

So can you suggest a test of one of your beliefs, such as the existance of Qi or meridians? Something simple that could be made into a test for the MDC?

No, I cannot ( thats the short answer) because that exceeds my knowledge level and from what I do know, theres nothing supernatural about it.

If there's nothing supernatural or paranormal about it, then there should be a way of testing it, and that's why I started this thread. Let's just talk about that, shall we?

As Cuddles has pointed out, discussion about how it works or even if it works belongs elsewhere. We're just trying to establish that any part of Feng Shui claims can be demonstrated under proper observing conditions.

 

[Prometheus]

Okay, but then we're back to the fact that we don't actually have a claimant, so all we can do is speculate. From what I've read, even the most specific claims these people ever make don't amount to much more than increasing one's good luck in particular areas of life, so the only test that could ever be done would be statistical analysis with a lot of people/houses, which, as someone pointed out up-thread, would involve prohibitive expense.

As to discussion of qi being a side-track, Jeff Wagg's recent article quotes a Feng Shui person making several claims about 'energy', by which she presumably means the same thing we are talking about with the term 'qi', so questions about what it is, and if it exists should be directly relevant to this discussion.

 

[LONGTABBER PE]

Okay, but then we're back to the fact that we don't actually have a claimant, so all we can do is speculate. From what I've read, even the most specific claims these people ever make don't amount to much more than increasing one's good luck in particular areas of life, so the only test that could ever be done would be statistical analysis with a lot of people/houses, which, as someone pointed out up-thread, would involve prohibitive expense.

As to discussion of qi being a side-track, Jeff Wagg's recent article quotes a Feng Shui person making several claims about 'energy', by which she presumably means the same thing we are talking about with the term 'qi', so questions about what it is, and if it exists should be directly relevant to this discussion.

I would agree. "KI" is allegedly a critical part of FS and as thus is relevant because if "KI" isnt then FS is done. ( or CHI or Qi or whatever spelling fits)

The only thing I was trying to say was that FS ( in its homeland) had nothing to do with it ( as is currently proclaimed) and then explaining what KI actually was.

The claims about FS being related to KI are bogus- pretty short and simple

 

[GzuzKryzt]

I would agree. "KI" is allegedly a critical part of FS and as thus is relevant because if "KI" isnt then FS is done. ( or CHI or Qi or whatever spelling fits)

The only thing I was trying to say was that FS ( in its homeland) had nothing to do with it ( as is currently proclaimed) and then explaining what KI actually was.

The claims about FS being related to KI are bogus- pretty short and simple

The problem seems that there are many interpretations of what is which and how it should be used - comparable to certain ancient scriptures.

At least FSers do not - yet - kill each other over who has the only true interpretation.

 

[Sherman Bay]

I would agree. "KI" is allegedly a critical part of FS and as thus is relevant because if "KI" isnt then FS is done. ( or CHI or Qi or whatever spelling fits)

Then, while testing FS might be difficult because it covers so much ground and is hard to pin down, how about we design a test for Qi? Just being able to detect it would be a damn good start.

If a good test for Qi could be designed, it would make a prime candidate for a MDC application.

 

[The Man]

The problem seems that there are many interpretations of what is which and how it should be used - comparable to certain ancient scriptures.

At least FSers do not - yet - kill each other over who has the only true interpretation.

Military feng shui, might be a missed opportunity.

“Allow us to organize your battle plan and logistics operations with the latest applications of feng shui. Do not be caught in a feng shui gap where your opponent has utilized “FS” tactics to gain a strategic advantage. We offer the latest and most extensive “FS” tactical applications available. Our field operatives will get your battle “Qi” flowing at its maximum potential or die trying.”

Ok, maybe an opportunity worth missing.

 

[tsig]

I would agree. "KI" is allegedly a critical part of FS and as thus is relevant because if "KI" isnt then FS is done. ( or CHI or Qi or whatever spelling fits)

The only thing I was trying to say was that FS ( in its homeland) had nothing to do with it ( as is currently proclaimed) and then explaining what KI actually was.

The claims about FS being related to KI are bogus- pretty short and simple

The claims about FS are bogus- pretty short and simple.

You seem to have some mystical reverence for things exotic and foreign.

BS is BS no matter where the bull came from or how old and revered.

 

[tsig]

Military feng shui, might be a missed opportunity.

“Allow us to organize your battle plan and logistics operations with the latest applications of feng shui. Do not be caught in a feng shui gap where your opponent has utilized “FS” tactics to gain a strategic advantage. We offer the latest and most extensive “FS” tactical applications available. Our field operatives will get your battle “Qi” flowing at its maximum potential or die trying.”

Ok, maybe an opportunity worth missing.

Napoleon said:
The feng shui is with those that have the bigger battalions.


Or something like that.lol

 

[rudeboy]

Sure

In country ( over there) there is no mysticism or other BS attached.

Its ( speaking of FS) no more different than common sense. Its based around astronomy and simply involves setting up your house/farm in accordance with the movements of the sun.

Setting the house up with the "wind" moving air thru, crop exposure and orienting house stuff in a logical manner.

Theres nothing supernatural to it. ( in the countries where it came from)

We would call it a mixture of common sense and maybe "process engineering" but nothing more.

Its important to state that "chi" ( or any variant) has a LITERAL meaning and that 99.9% of westerners who claim knowledge of it dont understand it.

Its purely PHYSICAL and makes sense ( when one removes the woo claims)

I cam give you a thesis on this- what do you need to know?

I`ve studied Fshui from masters Cecil Lee and Joseph Yu
astro-fengshui dot com
the flying stars and Ba chai systems. I can`t say they work but i have little costumer experience.
I would like to know what you think of what J. Yu says on his site on his free 101 fshui courses. Looks like rubbish? Can U point to the bull in his articles?
thanks

 

[rudeboy]

Fair enough but understand I'm an engineer and martial artist- I'm not a medical doctor nor am I a licensed accupuncturist and my personal skill level would be more of an advanced technician level. ( still have a lot to learn myself)

Last time i was on project in China ( 2.5 yrs ago) I got a lot of information from the site doctors ( who were Chinese and we talked martial art a lot)

The Chinese are in fact doing MRI technology and studying that right now ( according to them) but i cant begin to say more or if anyone else is doing it because i dont know.

Its understood over there that the points/meridians are a form of electrochemical energy ( you cant go on the ancient definitions because they didnt understand energy as we do today) so as an engineer, I'll attest that as physical energy there SHOULD be a way to measure it. Whether the correct technology has been applied or has been developed yet- I dont know.

One of the problems is that thru disinformation ( intentional and accidental) that false information is regarded as the "truth" and whats actually "true' sounds false in these subjects.

Depends on what specifically you want to know as to whether I can answer it for you.

I learned about these already in the 1980s and 1990s. Chinese have
shown, using modern technology, the electromagnetic nature of qi and
they continue studies even now.

 

[tsig]

I learned about these already in the 1980s and 1990s. Chinese have
shown, using modern technology, the electromagnetic nature of qi and
they continue studies even now.

Could you post a link to these studies? Or better yet tell us in your own words what they say and why you think they are important.

If qi is an electromagnetic function will magnets and electric currents do the same thin as qi?

 

[rudeboy]

Could you post a link to these studies? Or better yet tell us in your own words what they say and why you think they are important.

If qi is an electromagnetic function will magnets and electric currents do the same thin as qi?

I learned about it from books
like Yang Qiyuan: "Chinese Yuanbao Qigong" to mention one, which is
right now on my table. I am sure that it is possible to find more in
the web, if somebody has interest and time to do so.

I also saw on TV a program (German made) a few days ago where this
subject was mentioned so it is not a state secret.

 

[tsig]

I learned about it from books
like Yang Qiyuan: "Chinese Yuanbao Qigong" to mention one, which is
right now on my table. I am sure that it is possible to find more in
the web, if somebody has interest and time to do so.

I also saw on TV a program (German made) a few days ago where this
subject was mentioned so it is not a state secret.

No words of your own? You seem to have swallowed something without understanding what it is.

 

[GzuzKryzt]

I learned about these already in the 1980s and 1990s. Chinese have
shown, using modern technology, the electromagnetic nature of qi and
they continue studies even now.

Preciesely where have "the Chinese" shown precisely what?

 

[rudeboy]

Could you post a link to these studies? Or better yet tell us in your own words what they say and why you think they are important.

If qi is an electromagnetic function will magnets and electric currents do the same thin as qi?

Why do you think that even in West magnets and electric current are
used? One of the new applications is to place magnets on
acupoints or to direct electricity to acupuncture needles. The
Chinese have also developed over a few thousand years a way for
people to do this without external tools (qigong etc.) and for a
human to send qi directly to another human. For the Westerners the
best-known method using this practice is Reiki.

 

[Cavemonster]

Rudeboy-

I'm sorry, this is a skeptics forum. All respectable studies I've seen show that acupuncture doesn't perform any better than plscebo/fake acupuncture. If you want anyone here to take you seriously, you'll have to find an actual published study that backs up your claim.

 

[rudeboy]

Rudeboy-

I'm sorry, this is a skeptics forum. All respectable studies I've seen show that acupuncture doesn't perform any better than plscebo/fake acupuncture. If you want anyone here to take you seriously, you'll have to find an actual published study that backs up your claim.

i`ll see what i can find

 

[tsig]

i`ll see what i can find

You would have done better to have done that before you made up your mind and posted here.

Are you a cockroach named Archie?

 

[tsig]

Why do you think that even in West magnets and electric current are
used? One of the new applications is to place magnets on
acupoints or to direct electricity to acupuncture needles. The
Chinese have also developed over a few thousand years a way for
people to do this without external tools (qigong etc.) and for a
human to send qi directly to another human. For the Westerners the
best-known method using this practice is Reiki.

I can send Qi* directly to another. See I just did.

*I am defining qi as information contained in posts. That's fair since everyone gets to make it up as they go along anyway.