House Impeachment Inquiry

[Stacyhs]

I'm not trying to equate the two offenses, I'm equating the two outcomes. I'm saying that I'm predicting that, like Clinton, if he is impeached by the house he will not be convicted by the senate.

I have to agree with you; the Senate will not convict. They wouldn't convict Trump of anything short of him admitting he sold the nuclear codes to Russia along with video and with at least 30 GOP senators seeing him do it.

 

[WilliamSeger]

I'm not trying to equate the two offenses, I'm equating the two outcomes. I'm saying that I'm predicting that, like Clinton, if he is impeached by the house he will not be convicted by the senate.

Proving that Clinton committed perjury was a slam dunk, but the Senate acquitted him anyway because they read the public weather vane: presidents shouldn't be removed from office for lying about consensual sex. I predict that this Senate will do the same, and this time we're talking about something more serious than what Nixon did, by someone who will continue to do the same if not stopped.

 

[PhantomWolf]

I'm not trying to equate the two offenses, I'm equating the two outcomes. I'm saying that I'm predicting that, like Clinton, if he is impeached by the house he will not be convicted by the senate.

The thing is that just saying "The Senate won't convict, so we can do nothing," is a bad option as that allows Trump to claim he did nothing wrong because he wasn't Impeached. He'll be like, "The Democrats tried to get me in multiple witch-hunts and they couldn't because I was innocent."

Surely, if you accept that his behaviour is impeachable, then the better course of action is to Impeach and make the case to the American people that he should be found guilty, and show that beyond doubt, and then should the Republicans exonerate the President against the weight of that evidence, you can go to the electorate and say, we did our job, you all know he is guilty, we need to get rid of the corruption in the senate too.

 

[PhantomWolf]

I have to agree with you; the Senate will not convict. They wouldn't convict Trump of anything short of him admitting he sold the nuclear codes to Russia along with video and with at least 30 GOP senators seeing him do it.

I disagree, they wouldn't convict even if that happened.

 

[Stacyhs]

Proving that Clinton committed perjury was a slam dunk, but the Senate acquitted him anyway because they read the public weather vane: presidents shouldn't be removed from office for lying about consensual sex. I predict that this Senate will do the same, and this time we're talking about something more serious than what Nixon did, by someone who will continue to do the same if not stopped.

Lying about having sex is not on the same level as using your office as POTUS to basically extort a foreign government into getting dirt on your political rival.

Stealing a cookie from the neighbor's cookie jar is theft. Forcing a teller to hand over $200K from the bank while pointing a gun at him is theft. Not on the same level.

 

[Stacyhs]

I have to agree with you; the Senate will not convict. They wouldn't convict Trump of anything short of him admitting he sold the nuclear codes to Russia along with video and with at least 30 GOP senators seeing him do it AND having the entire event played live on FOX News.

I disagree, they wouldn't convict even if that happened.

I think you're right. I amended my post. But maybe not even then.

 

[WilliamSeger]

Lying about having sex is not on the same level as using your office as POTUS to basically extort a foreign government into getting dirt on your political rival.

Stealing a cookie from the neighbor's cookie jar is theft. Forcing a teller to hand over $200K from the bank while pointing a gun at him is theft. Not on the same level.

Sorry, I wasn't very clear, but I'm not predicting they will acquit; I'm predicting that this Senate will also be more concerned about their own future rather than Trump's. If the majority of the voters think they are hiding a dangerously unscrupulous president out of party loyalty, they are the ones who will suffer the consequences of not removing him.

 

[dudalb]

I have to agree with you; the Senate will not convict. They wouldn't convict Trump of anything short of him admitting he sold the nuclear codes to Russia along with video and with at least 30 GOP senators seeing him do it.

I don't think they would convict even then.

 

[Stacyhs]

Sorry, I wasn't very clear, but I'm not predicting they will acquit; I'm predicting that this Senate will also be more concerned about their own future rather than Trump's. If the majority of the voters think they are hiding a dangerously unscrupulous president out of party loyalty, they are the ones who will suffer the consequences of not removing him.

I think a majority of the voters already think that; it's whether a majority of Trump supporters think that.

 

[dudalb]

Sorry, I wasn't very clear, but I'm not predicting they will acquit; I'm predicting that this Senate will also be more concerned about their own future rather than Trump's. If the majority of the voters think they are hiding a dangerously unscrupulous president out of party loyalty, they are the ones who will suffer the consequences of not removing him.

They are so damn afraid of being "Primaried" if they go against Trump they will do nothing.

 

[portlandatheist]

Public opinion is inching towards favoring impeachment
https://www.npr.org/2019/09/26/7647...-americans-split-on-house-impeachment-inquiry
These numbers could change quickly as this saga continues

 

[Marcus]

The thing is that just saying "The Senate won't convict, so we can do nothing," is a bad option as that allows Trump to claim he did nothing wrong because he wasn't Impeached. He'll be like, "The Democrats tried to get me in multiple witch-hunts and they couldn't because I was innocent."

Surely, if you accept that his behaviour is impeachable, then the better course of action is to Impeach and make the case to the American people that he should be found guilty, and show that beyond doubt, and then should the Republicans exonerate the President against the weight of that evidence, you can go to the electorate and say, we did our job, you all know he is guilty, we need to get rid of the corruption in the senate too.

The question is what is the best strategy for getting him out of office. Earlier this year Pelosi had the right idea saying that impeachment would be counterproductive, This time I think she jumped the gun, probably thinking that the audio recordings would contain more than they did.

 

[Stacyhs]

The question is what is the best strategy for getting him out of office. Earlier this year Pelosi had the right idea saying that impeachment would be counterproductive, This time I think she jumped the gun, probably thinking that the audio recordings would contain more than they did.

Pelosi may know more than has been made public, too.

 

[PhantomWolf]

The question is what is the best strategy for getting him out of office. Earlier this year Pelosi had the right idea saying that impeachment would be counterproductive, This time I think she jumped the gun, probably thinking that the audio recordings would contain more than they did.

and this is why it is hard to take you seriously.

 

[dudalb]

Pelosi may know more than has been made public, too.

Never underestimate a woman who can quote Julius Caesar in the original Latin.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Time will tell. I hope you are right.

It's already happening. One by one Republican legislators are defecting.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

So far, there is no smoking gun, making this more of a Clinton type event than a Nixon type event. If the Dems vote for impeachment in the house, they are really just shooting themselves in the foot, probably insuring Trumps reelection. Unless of course something more substantial comes to light, something that would peruade the Republicans to turn on him.

What universe are you in? The dam burst.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Public opinion is inching towards favoring impeachment
https://www.npr.org/2019/09/26/7647...-americans-split-on-house-impeachment-inquiry
These numbers could change quickly as this saga continues

Horrible poll. I suppose there's a rush to get out the first poll but the sampling is so tiny that the MoE is huge.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I have to agree with you; the Senate will not convict. They wouldn't convict Trump of anything short of him admitting he sold the nuclear codes to Russia along with video and with at least 30 GOP senators seeing him do it.

People really need to start adding the caveat 'at the moment' to these pessimistic predictions.

 

[Delvo]

It's recently been claimed that 30 Republican Senators would vote to impeach

Jeff Flake says 35.

It's all about loyalty to the party. Or at least the appearance of loyalty.

There are a couple of other things it's about now too. Trump's been making enemies of the other Republicans, and they have an incentive to get rid of him not just because of the animosity between them but also to free themselves from him; getting rid of him gets rid of the biggest threat to them, and the sooner he's gone the sooner they can get back to carrying on as they did before him. Also, legislators tend to do what their big money donors want them to do, and the big money donors aren't getting any happier with Trump either.

And remember, even those who would want him to stay in place are perfectly aware of the physical & mental condition he's in and the rate at which it's declining. He and they will be looking for a way out for him.