Cont: House Impeachment Inquiry - part 3

[acbytesla]

I know that I hope Trump is a lame duck president starting on November 4, but the idea of Donald Trump sitting bitter and angry in the White House, but still having all the power of the President for three months is a scary thought to me.

I have felt that way for the last 3 years.

 

[shemp]

It's being reported that McConnell's coordination with the White House extended to telling Trump's lawyers what arguments to make on the senate floor in order to keep the wavering Republican senators on-side

Oh come on, everyone knows that the Wall Street Journal is a left wing fake-news monger that is salivating over the prospect of a President Sanders.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

In three months he can create enough of a mess that it will take four years for his successor to clean up, if he or she can.

Edited to add: Actually, now that I think of it a little, he's already caused enough damage to require a decade or two of cleanup.

That's the Republican playbook, isn't it? Inherit a country that's in a pretty good state, spend your entire time ruining it for the benefit of the few, leave office when the consequences of that hit so you can blame the other guy, wait for them to fix the country again, lather, rinse, repeat.

 

[Tero]

Because he's iving in a bubble. Most people are. Totally ignorant of how other people live. They accept all the modern conveniences as well as the markets provided by urban America, but they don't want to pay for it.

I've lived and traveled extensively throughout the West from LA to Iowa to Seattle and Oregon. But mostly I've lived in the Seattle area where the traffic is as bad as it is anywhere. Yet there are constant complaints from the East side of the state about paying for projects in Seattle and how liberal it is there. But they would be liberal too if they knew these were people living out in our streets and they had to get along with the neighbor who lived 40 feet away as opposed to the neighbors who lived miles away.

Also, don't discount the effect of right wing radio. If you're in the middle of nowhere the car radio stations are incredibly limited. It's usually a choice between religious stations and right wing talk radio.

Now we are getting to the fundamental principle of voters and voting:
Someone else is getting something that I'm not getting!

 

[Armitage72]

That's the Republican playbook, isn't it? Inherit a country that's in a pretty good state, spend your entire time ruining it for the benefit of the few, leave office when the consequences of that hit so you can blame the other guy, wait for them to fix the country again, lather, rinse, repeat.

There was a political cartoon I saw some time in 2009, I think. It showed President Obama dressed as Ash from "The Evil Dead", fighting a massive horde of zombies that were all groaning "Reaganomics...". A guy standing in the background was shouting "Why haven't you fixed the economy yet?"

 

[acbytesla]

Now we are getting to the fundamental principle of voters and voting:
Someone else is getting something that I'm not getting!

Nobody gets what the other guy gets. They want it to be fair. But what is fair?

But frankly, the whole rural/urban divide is manufactured nonsense. The uber-wealthy have blown up the differences so they can pick everyone's pocket.

Do you really think Donald raised in the city and suburbs with every advantage gives a damn about rural America or Christian ideology? He is actually racist though which is shared by rural America.

 

[acbytesla]

That's the Republican playbook, isn't it? Inherit a country that's in a pretty good state, spend your entire time ruining it for the benefit of the few, leave office when the consequences of that hit so you can blame the other guy, wait for them to fix the country again, lather, rinse, repeat.

That pretty much sums it up.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Now we are getting to the fundamental principle of voters and voting:

Someone else is getting something that I'm not getting!

Almost more like my dogs. I can understand jealousy over one getting pets and the other not. However, they are often quite irate that, while receiving pets, they can clearly see the other dog is also receiving pets. This is highly upsetting to them.

 

[Cain]

Now we are getting to the fundamental principle of voters and voting:
Someone else is getting something that I'm not getting!

There was a study that would show white Republicans advertisements of a government program designed to increase homeownership. Respondents were broadly supportive. Another group of white Republicans was shown pretty much the same propaganda except the smiling family in the ad was Black. Respondents were decidedly less supportive.

Thirty years ago, conservatives were more influenced by libertarianism. Libertarians would rage against the Scandinavian countries' high levels of wealth and happiness: "Nope, they're on the road to serfdom." The Alt-Right includes a lot of self-described "former libertardians" who have come to "realize" that culture matters and markets alone are not magical. "Of course" Scandinavian countries are successful: they're uber-white, homogeneous societies. To the extent they become less white, they're doomed.

 

[dudalb]

One of the reasons I am serioucly considering leving this board it that a couple of trolls can so easily dominate it.
Amazed so many people who think themsleves rational thinkers continue to feed the trolls.

 

[acbytesla]

There was a study that would show white Republicans advertisements of a government program designed to increase homeownership. Respondents were broadly supportive. Another group of white Republicans was shown pretty much the same propaganda except the smiling family in the ad was Black. Respondents were decidedly less supportive.

Thirty years ago, conservatives were more influenced by libertarianism. Libertarians would rage against the Scandinavian countries' high levels of wealth and happiness: "Nope, they're on the road to serfdom." The Alt-Right includes a lot of self-described "former libertardians" who have come to "realize" that culture matters and markets alone are not magical. "Of course" Scandinavian countries are successful: they're uber-white, homogeneous societies. To the extent they become less white, they're doomed.

This is effective in rural and suburban areas as they are extremely white. These people don't think of themselves as racist. But there is a bias that runs deep. It's mostly subconscious xenophobia and stereotypes.

 

[Armitage72]

There was a study that would show white Republicans advertisements of a government program designed to increase homeownership. Respondents were broadly supportive. Another group of white Republicans was shown pretty much the same propaganda except the smiling family in the ad was Black. Respondents were decidedly less supportive.

It sounds similar to that poll that found some people supported the Affordable Care Act but were opposed to Obamacare.

 

[Minoosh]

Because the GOP would have run out the clock.

Right, but couldn't they have issued the articles anyway? It might have looked weird, but otherwise what's the downside of that? GOP would bitch about the process being partisan but they were going to do that anyway. And eventually the House might have ended up winning that fight and getting sworn testimony or Trump's minions defying a court order. It would be too late for the Senate trial, but it still would get press coverage. It wouldn't look like they just have up and said, "Never mind."

If it took more than a year, though, I'm not sure it would have helped.

 

[acbytesla]

Right, but couldn't they have issued the articles anyway? It might have looked weird, but otherwise what's the downside of that? GOP would bitch about the process being partisan but they were going to do that anyway. And eventually the House might have ended up winning that fight and getting sworn testimony or Trump's minions defying a court order. It would be too late for the Senate trial, but it still would get press coverage. It wouldn't look like they just have up and said, "Never mind."

If it took more than a year, though, I'm not sure it would have helped.

Really? You think it would have helped waiting until after the next election? Either way, I think it would have been a mistake to wait.

 

[Garrison]

I think the Democratic Party has gotten about as much out of impeachment as it was ever going to get given the Senate was never going to find Trump guilty. They've forced the Republicans into stating openly that they know he did something wrong but they still don't want to hold Trump accountable.

 

[Minoosh]

Really? You think it would have helped waiting until after the next election? Either way, I think it would have been a mistake to wait.

And I'm saying, don't wait. Impeach and send the articles over anyway. More than a year wouldn't help because then it's a whole new Congress. But any time up till then would be this Congress and a chance to get sworn testimony on the public record. Otherwise there's no chance. The Senate was never going to subpoena anyone, except maybe the whistleblower.

 

[Minoosh]

Expect 'very presidential' tweets to attack Romney.

Also perhaps attacks on senators who have rationalizations like Rubio's, but probably not until after the final vote. But Trump might not be smart enough to catch on the some GOP members are now saying, he's guilty but we're not going to remove him over this.

 

[dudalb]

I think the Democratic Party has gotten about as much out of impeachment as it was ever going to get given the Senate was never going to find Trump guilty. They've forced the Republicans into stating openly that they know he did something wrong but they still don't want to hold Trump accountable.

I think it not so much the acquittle that got people upset.we were all expecting that...but that tehy would not even hear evidence.
I would say it worked to the Democrats advantage, but never underestimate the Dems ablity to anatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

[Paul2]

I think the Democratic Party has gotten about as much out of impeachment as it was ever going to get given the Senate was never going to find Trump guilty. They've forced the Republicans into stating openly that they know he did something wrong but they still don't want to hold Trump accountable.

This is a good way to view the situation. Aside from upholding constitutional and democratic principles - not a small consideration - the dems' political advantage from impeachment may be small or large, but they played the cards they were dealt.

 

[Aridas]

I think it not so much the acquittle that got people upset.we were all expecting that...but that tehy would not even hear evidence.
I would say it worked to the Democrats advantage, but never underestimate the Dems ablity to anatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Oddly enough, I'm not upset about that. As a few of them even specifically said, they know and admit that Trump is guilty. Really, really guilty. It's not like more evidence would change that. That they refuse to hold him accountable despite that is a serious, serious problem, but an entirely expected one given the utter contempt that they've been showing towards the US for decades. The thing that I'm the most unhappy about was the way that they gave validation to the President can do anything he wants argument. *That* makes me particularly concerned about whether we'll even have a real election come November in the first place.