Cont: House Impeachment Inquiry - part 3

[bobdroege7]

No, they were fired from their jobs on the National Security Council. They were "reassigned" because Trump can't fire anyone from the military.

I believe that's what I said. No discharge, of any kind, honorable, under honorable conditions, bad conduct or dishonorable. No big chicken dinner. They still serve.

He can't fire them, that's Nancy's job.

 

[acbytesla]

I believe that's what I said. No discharge, of any kind, honorable, under honorable conditions, bad conduct or dishonorable. No big chicken dinner. They still serve.

He can't fire them, that's Nancy's job.

What Trump has demonstrated is "vengeance is mine".

 

[Stacyhs]

I believe that's what I said. No discharge, of any kind, honorable, under honorable conditions, bad conduct or dishonorable. No big chicken dinner. They still serve.

He can't fire them, that's Nancy's job.

No. You are not correct. NHS advisors are appointed by the president. Vindman was appointed by Trump in 2018. Since it's a presidential appointment that does not require confirmation by either the House or the Senate, Pelosi has zero to do with any of it. Accordingly, it is within the president's power to fire any advisor.

As I said, Trump does not have the power to fire anyone from the military which is why Vindman and his brother remain members of the military.

 

[Craig4]

What Trump has demonstrated is "vengeance is mine".

I'm interested to see Trump's approval rating next week. Polls need to settle a bit. Now that the months long impeachment is over, there's probably going to be a period of high non-response rates. If he settles back into his 43ish percent approval, it's likely the acquittal did nothing for him.

 

[Segnosaur]

Lt. Col. Vindman and his twin Yevgeny (also a Lt. Col.) have both been fired. If that isn't vindictive I don't know what is.

I wonder if this will affect his popularity with military personnel at all.

Trump does have slightly higher approval ratings with the military, but it has been dropping. Seeing "one of their own" booted out of his position for just doing his duty may not play well and if we are lucky it will harm his approval more.

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[TellyKNeasuss]

People will be talking about him as long as the republic survives.

The republic has already ended. The US is now an elected monarchy.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Oh for heaven's sake, hyperbole much? They knew this was coming, it's unfortunate but hardly surprising. And as far as Trump becoming Darth Greasy and emperoring the former republic, these guys lost their jobs, they didn't turn up in pools of blood or vanish after a helicopter flight over the jungle. They'll have book deals out of it, and will be fine.

Trump's doing enough real damage to things that we don't need to exaggerate and indulge in disaster-porn. That just distracts from what's actually happening.

 

[acbytesla]

Oh for heaven's sake, hyperbole much? They knew this was coming, it's unfortunate but hardly surprising. And as far as Trump becoming Darth Greasy and emperoring the former republic, these guys lost their jobs, they didn't turn up in pools of blood or vanish after a helicopter flight over the jungle. They'll have book deals out of it, and will be fine.

Trump's doing enough real damage to things that we don't need to exaggerate and indulge in disaster-porn. That just distracts from what's actually happening.

Who are you talking to?

Do you really think Colonel Vindman or his brother are looking for a book deal? These are career military men dedicated to serving their country.

It may not be the equivalent of execution, but it is an erosion of our system of checks and balances.

 

[Lurch]

If you come at the king, you better not miss.

Nobody should expect to keep their job after trying and failing to get their boss fired. To be honest, I'm not sure why anyone would want to. You'd think Vindmann would have turned in his resignation as soon as the Senate finished voting. Rather than keep working for a President he doesn't believe should hold office.

I see Vindman's position as more working for the nation, not a man. But Trump of course demands personal loyalty.

What you're essentially suggesting is that only members of the Party in power should be working for the State. Smacks of the situation to be found in undemocratic systems.

 

[Sideroxylon]

Who are you talking to?

Do you really think Colonel Vindman or his brother are looking for a book deal? These are career military men dedicated to serving their country.

It may not be the equivalent of execution, but it is an erosion of our system of checks and balances.

It is just one more thing. In amongst all of the other unacceptable actions it becomes easier to accept or trivialise. It is not acceptable that someone who complies with a subpoena and offers frank testimony gets fired. Not acceptable because this action is a threat to accountability. Whistle blowers must be protected,

Lobsters, the pot is boiling.

 

[Sideroxylon]

If you come at the king, you better not miss.

Nobody should expect to keep their job after trying and failing to get their boss fired. To be honest, I'm not sure why anyone would want to. You'd think Vindmann would have turned in his resignation as soon as the Senate finished voting. Rather than keep working for a President he doesn't believe should hold office.

That is an absurd refraining. Send a CV to Fox and turn such dishonesty/delusion into dollars.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Trump is not a king.
Seems like this needs repeating if you don't want him to become one.

 

[Sideroxylon]

It seems America has taken its Democracy for granted. Now is the time to stand up against the attack on democracy. If you let all this pass in the hope an election will ouster this gang of thieves and vandals, and they win it will be a rubber stamping of a new order.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

It seems America has taken its Democracy for granted. Now is the time to stand up against the attack on democracy. If you let all this pass in the hope an election will ouster this gang of thieves and vandals, and they win it will be a rubber stamping of a new order.

That would require to acknowledge that Democracy is under attack, that the Institutions need reform and most people have looked away instead of being truly patriotic.

Sounds like a lot of uncomfortable work...

 

[Craig4]

I wonder if this will affect his popularity with military personnel at all.

Trump does have slightly higher approval ratings with the military, but it has been dropping. Seeing "one of their own" booted out of his position for just doing his duty may not play well and if we are lucky it will harm his approval more.

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The good news is that they will both go back to the Army. I don't know where they are in their careers but I will be curious to see the next O-6 promotion board results.

 

[Craig4]

If you come at the king, you better not miss.

Nobody should expect to keep their job after trying and failing to get their boss fired. To be honest, I'm not sure why anyone would want to. You'd think Vindmann would have turned in his resignation as soon as the Senate finished voting. Rather than keep working for a President he doesn't believe should hold office.

I'm not so sure he did miss. This history of this affair has not yet been written. History is written by those who write histories and those who write histories tend not to be Trumptrash. Thirty years from now, Vindmann may be one of the heroes of this story and Trump the villain.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

I question how significant that average really is. Is it truly representative of your typical, average flip? I really don't think it is. (Not all averages are, you know). For example, out of the past 13 midterms, only 3 had larger flips than 2018. That does not strike me as "deeply, deeply average".

Lies, damn lies, and statistics.

Okay, so let's look at this a different way. The largest flip was 2010, when 63 seats flipped under Obama. Since Obama won the election in 2012, is it reasonable to take 41 seats flipping under Trump as a sign that he's going to lose the next election?

 

[Cabbage]

Lies, damn lies, and statistics.

Okay, so let's look at this a different way. The largest flip was 2010, when 63 seats flipped under Obama. Since Obama won the election in 2012, is it reasonable to take 41 seats flipping under Trump as a sign that he's going to lose the next election?

Oh, I'm not trying to paint it as a bellwether for 2020, I just think it's more significant than "deeply, deeply average".

 

[Upchurch]

Oh for heaven's sake, hyperbole much? They knew this was coming, it's unfortunate but hardly surprising. And as far as Trump becoming Darth Greasy and emperoring the former republic, these guys lost their jobs, they didn't turn up in pools of blood or vanish after a helicopter flight over the jungle. They'll have book deals out of it, and will be fine.

I think the Trump Administration is testing the waters on how to squash those with Bolton right now.

"Nope. Sorry. All your experiences in the White House are privileged communications. Classified. Top Secret. National security concerns. No leaks."

or

"The first rule of Trump Administration is that you don't talk about Trump Administration."

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Oh, I'm not trying to paint it as a bellwether for 2020[...]

That's the context in which it was brought up.

[...]I just think it's more significant than "deeply, deeply average".

I don't agree, but I think it'd just get into us slicing up the data in various ways, hence my previous comment. The point is that it's not really a "blue tsunami" which signals the end of Trump.