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Cont: House Impeachment Inquiry - part 3

Sort of. But as Nixon found out, party loyalty only goes so far.
Nixon didn't have the modern Republican/Fox News Party.

Popular support is even more important though. If you think that the American people were demanding Trump's ouster, and only the republican party was standing against the will of the people, you really need to step out of your bubble.
Popular demand didn't get the Republicans to listen to evidence and testimony, did it?

FWIW, I think the American people were pretty much evenly split on removal, leaning slightly towards removal over not.
 
Republicans hope Trump doesn't bring up impeachment during the State of the Union address.

Oh I hope he does.

There's zero chance he doesn't brag about being "Proven totally innocent, the most innocent President of all time, totally exonerated" the entire speech.
 
There's zero chance he doesn't brag about being "Proven totally innocent, the most innocent President of all time, totally exonerated" the entire speech.

What're the odds he'll ask for a foreign country for another quid pro quo during the State of the Union?
 
What're the odds he'll ask for a foreign country for another quid pro quo during the State of the Union?

That and/or start playing the "The Dems couldn't impeach me, so now they're gonna have to cheat me out of my win in 2020, illegal voting, busing in the illegals, very bad stuff" tune.
 
You need an elementary course in reading comprehension. I didn't say Trump didn't commit a crime. I said the GAO has not alleged any crime. Do you understand the difference?

No, sadly, you probably do not.

I think you are playing games. The point is Trump committed criminal acts not what the GAO said. To deny that is lying. If you admit that and are saying something different then that, I offer an apology.
 
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You need an elementary course in reading comprehension. I didn't say Trump didn't commit a crime. I said the GAO has not alleged any crime. Do you understand the difference?

No, sadly, you probably do not.

I think you are playing games. The point is Trump committed criminal acts not what GAO said. To deny that is lying. If you admit that and are saying something different then that, I offer an apology.
We'll take that as a "no".
 
Maybe it would help if Zig clarified his position, like I asked?

I can't speak for zig but,. Oh wait it's a forum. Sure I can.

I think there are two completely different issues be
Ing addressed here. One issue, that you asked for clarification on, is whether Trump committed a crime. That's a worthwhile question.

A different issue is whether the gao report said that Donald Trump committed a crime. That is also a worthwhile question, but it's not the same question.
 
I think you are playing games. The point is Trump committed criminal acts not what the GAO said.

"The" point? Whose point?

No, in the post I initially responded to, the claim was very much what the GAO said.
 
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The impeachment of Trump shows that his presidency is a failure.

The Republicans claim the Democrats wanted to impeach Trump even before his inauguration but such a claim would have been a rather useless prediction since the Republicans had the majority in the House.

At the 2016 Presidential election there were 241 Republicans to 194 Democrats in the House.

The so-called "chosen genius" Trump had to maintain a majority to prevent the predicted
impeachment.


The thousands of tweets from Trump did nothing to stop the voters from giving the Dems the majority in the 2018 election.

The prediction has come true. Trump is impeached.

Americans know that they can MAGA without the impeached Trump.
 
I can't speak for zig but,. Oh wait it's a forum. Sure I can.
I think there are two completely different issues be
Ing addressed here. One issue, that you asked for clarification on, is whether Trump committed a crime. That's a worthwhile question.

A different issue is whether the gao report said that Donald Trump committed a crime. That is also a worthwhile question, but it's not the same question.

But then you didn't speak for him at all, unless you're saying that Zig will avoid answer the question I asked.
 
It already is worse, because delaying that aid helped Putin who in this context is our enemy in a shooting war. And I really don't understand why GOP senators are letting this sail over their heads. Maybe they've bought into the Ukraine conspiracy but I don't think they are that stupid.
I agree they've mostly not bought into the conspiracy itself, but they've bought into it as a tactic for 2020. It's this year's Clinton Emails : the rest of the script remains unchanged.
 
You think Trump's actions are less forgivable than Reagan's, yet you think Reagan should have been impeached but are, at best, unsure about Trump? Can you clarify, please?

I'll try.

I don't know exactly how to compare which one is worse.

On the one hand, Trump's actions were self serving, while Reagan was acting in what he perceived to be the national interest. (I know what Dershowitz said, but that's stupid, so we'll ignore that.) On the other hand, Reagan was acting in complete defiance of a very specific Congressional mandate, which Reagan himself had signed into law. Trump, on the other hand, was carrying out long standing policy (of controlling corruption in Ukraine) but twisting it to his own interest. At the end of the day, Congressional mandates were followed, although slightly delayed.

Either one could have been impeachable, but reasonable people could disagree on whether either one ought to have resulted in impeachment.

The difference may just be that I'm less idealistic and more jaded than I was then. I hated Ronald Reagan, and I thought somehow that mattered. I hate Donald Trump, but I'm not so convinced that it matters today.

Really, if you could make me a congressman and force me to vote in either case, I don't know which way I would vote. The actual act of voting, of making a decision that matters as opposed to just yapping about what you would do, tends to influence what you're thinking.
 
Sort of. But as Nixon found out, party loyalty only goes so far.
But much further with this Republican Party, post-Southern Strategy, post-Tea Party. Has there ever been, in modern times, a party so thoroughly regimented as today's GOP?


Popular support is even more important though. If you think that the American people were demanding Trump's ouster, and only the republican party was standing against the will of the people, you really need to step out of your bubble.
We'll find out in November if the US American people wants Trump out - and, of course, whether they want to kick some Republican senators out. The Republican Party's performance in this whole procedure, in the spotlight, cannot have won any hearts or minds at all.
 
As the Senate trial wraps up, what do Trump supporters think?



This is why Trump loves the poorly educated.

To be fair I know they can interview many people and then show just the worst ones but when I see stuff like this I can't help but think they've been drinking the lead tainted water
 

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