Cont: House Impeachment Inquiry - part 2

[Paul2]

The House has zero say in the Senate trial, which is very clear in the Constitution.

I can send a letter to McConnell and tell him that if he doesn't make Mulvaney and Bolton testify, I'm going to move to Kentucky and vote against him. McConnell can choose to ignore me or to relent to my demand, as he sees fit. Pelosi is in the same situation. It's McConnell's power to make the decision, but Pelosi can choose to carry out actions depending on what McConnell chooses to do in the future, communicate what her actions will be, and then it's up to McConnell to decide what actions he will carry out. That the Senate is in total charge of the trial has nothing to do with any of that.

 

[Minoosh]

I wonder sometimes about the need to telegraph anything. It might have been interesting to simply withhold the articles without floating a trial balloon. Leave people to wonder - WTF?? Speak mysteriously of a final procedural vote that will be scheduled in the next couple of weeks. I suppose that's not really possible in practice. I just wonder sometimes.

I'm reminded of Adam Schiff announcing certain subpoenas. Why announce it? Let 'em get served; they'll figure it out.

Strategically I don't know if it's better to just let the Senate get its non-trial over with and let the whole thing die down. I like withholding simply because it temporarily confuses Senate leaders. Messes up their timing. Only briefly, probably, an interesting tactic but not a strategy.

Maybe it can be suggested that there is another article or two pending. After all, it's almost certain that Trump is continuing to do shady **** that is also impeachable.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

The decision to impeach Trump came way before Trump quite legally and predictably invoked executive privilege.

I'm sure Trump can testify to this, as can Pompeo, Mnuchin, Bolton and Guiliani and the White House lawyers. That way, we can clear this whole thing up.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Trump Tweets

Pelosi feels her phony impeachment HOAX is so pathetic she is afraid to present it to the Senate, which can set a date and put this whole SCAM into default if they refuse to show up! The Do Nothings are so bad for our Country!

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

If you think that was a star chamber you don't have a ******* clue what a star chamber is.

Your post epitomizes the nonsense lies that the GOP argues again and again. Can't find actual facts to support your argument? Irrelevant right? Believe your lies instead. I mean why deal with the facts, when you can make up your own reality?

But if you want to talk about Russia, we can. The dictator Putin said Trump did no wrong today. Funny isn't it? Never mind that Trump called on Russia to hack Clinton's email server and they did. Never mind that Trump's campaign manager, his deputy campaign manager and his son had a meeting to get dirt from the Russians. Never mind that Trump said publicly that he fired Comey because of the inquiry into Russian interference.

But this wasn't about Russia. It was about Trump extorting Ukraine to getting them to interfere in the 2020 election. And he did that with 391 million dollars of military aid to protect Ukraine from guess who? Russia! Funny how this always circle back to Trump's sugar daddy.

It's also about blatant obstruction of Congress. For a guy who swears he's innocent, he sure prevents everyone from finding out the truth.

There are two world leaders who say that it was Ukraine and not Russia who interfered in the 2016 elections. I'll allow people to guess for themselves which two.

 

[Minoosh]

Ever encounter a spoiled child? The behavior may stun and disgust everybody else but if the tantrums and whining get the parents to indulge it that child is indeed the victor. Getting what you want is the victory. Getting what you want despite the wishes of tons of people is an even bigger victory.

But Trump already *is* the victor. And he throws a tantrum anyway. Who throws a tantrum when they're already getting what they want?

And success just encourages the behavior. Trump will get worse. The stuff he just got impeached for is nothing compared to what he'll get up to next.

Which raises an interesting question - what does the House do then? If something even more egregious comes to light? And it will.

 

[smartcooky]

There are two world leaders who say that it was Ukraine and not Russia who interfered in the 2016 elections. I'll allow people to guess for themselves which two.

Let me guess... is one a former spy and a dictator and the other a multiple bankrupt, crook, compulsive liar and wannabe King?

 

[bobdroege7]

The decision to impeach Trump came way before Trump quite legally and predictably invoked executive privilege. The House has zero say in the Senate trial, which is very clear in the Constitution. Pelosi is beating a dead horse, and gaining more experience doing so daily.

Trump's going to go to that executive privilege well one too many times.

 

[varwoche]

... Your post epitomizes the nonsense lies that the GOP argues again and again. Can't find actual facts to support your argument? Irrelevant right? Believe your lies instead. I mean why deal with the facts, when you can make up your own reality?

Fifteen years ago (random - the year I joined jref) it was nearly impossible to introduce reality to fact-free zealots. Now it's way worse, with the complicity of BS "news" outlets, high level elected officials spewing CTs like there's no tomorrow, and of course the CTist in Chief, all legitimizing their demented alternate reality.

But this wasn't about Russia. It was about Trump extorting Ukraine to getting them to interfere in the 2020 election...

Except like Nancy said, all roads lead to Russia. Bear in mind, shifting blame to Ukraine for 2016 meddling is straight out of the Putin playbook.

 

[sackett]

The need to impeach Trumpolini was apparent before he was elected. The opportunity to impeach him came after the 2018 election. The decision to impeach came immediately after that. Choosing which of his offenses to nail him on took longer.

No wonder, in such a target-rich environment.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

The need to impeach Trumpolini was apparent before he was elected. The opportunity to impeach him came after the 2018 election. The decision to impeach came immediately after that. Choosing which of his offenses to nail him on took longer.

No wonder, in such a target-rich environment.

I might make this my new signature.

 

[smartcooky]

Well, the Democrats should not be surprised that their Star Chamber impeachment that resulted in articles that are crime-free was doomed to failure.

Firstly, you are clueless as to what a Star Chamber really is... you're just parroting your Dear Leader - he is just as clueless, and doesn't understand what it is either.

Secondly, no part of the US Constitution states that an impeachment requires the officeholder to have committed a crime. Impeachment is about the BEHAVIOUR of the officeholder, not his/her criminality. Indeed, at the time your Founders wrote and ratified the Constitution (1787), no US Laws had even been codified. That didn't happen until almost 90 years later in the 1870's,

 

[Armitage72]

But Trump already *is* the victor. And he throws a tantrum anyway. Who throws a tantrum when they're already getting what they want?

He didn't win enough to satisfy his massive but fragile ego. He's like a screaming child who's given a piece of candy, and then starts screaming again because he wants the even bigger piece of candy he just saw elsewhere.

He needs to be the biggest, greatest, most amazing, most loved/feared/admired man in history. The fact that anybody is questioning or hindering any of his whims is unacceptable.

 

[Stacyhs]

The decision to impeach Trump came way before Trump quite legally and predictably invoked executive privilege. The House has zero say in the Senate trial, which is very clear in the Constitution. Pelosi is beating a dead horse, and gaining more experience doing so daily.

Maybe the desire to impeach but the decision to impeach only came after Trump did something clearly impeachable as testified to by numerous witnesses.

 

[Shalamar]

He didn't win enough to satisfy his massive but fragile ego. He's like a screaming child who's given a piece of candy, and then starts screaming again because he wants the even bigger piece of candy he just saw elsewhere.

He needs to be the biggest, greatest, most amazing, most loved/feared/admired man in history. The fact that anybody is questioning or hindering any of his whims is unacceptable.

It seems to me that the issue to Trump isn't 'winning', but rather he feels that someone else has to lose. And lose bigly. So far he feels he can't win because no one has lost.

 

[Shalamar]

Maybe the desire to impeach but thedecision to impeach only came after Trump did something clearly impeachable as testified to by numerous witnesses.

As well, Pelosi really did NOT want to impeach, but Trumps actions upset people enough that she felt she had to.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Demanding that Trump needs to have committed a crime to be removed is a direct admission that your standards for a Commander in Chief are lower than for a burger-flipper.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Ever encounter a spoiled child? The behavior may stun and disgust everybody else but if the tantrums and whining get the parents to indulge it that child is indeed the victor. Getting what you want is the victory. Getting what you want despite the wishes of tons of people is an even bigger victory.

And success just encourages the behavior. Trump will get worse. The stuff he just got impeached for is nothing compared to what he'll get up to next.

There is nothing stopping the Dems launching another impeachment if Trump misbehaves just as badly and openly as he did with the Ukraine thing. As noted above, he's a target-rich environment.

Let's say he did just that. And the Dems once again went through all the hoops of the last few months and a second (or even more) impeachment is passed. But they still don't send them up to the Senate. That would build a laundry-list of impeachments for a whole bunch of Trumpy crimes. And eventually this will tilt against Donny. In the past he has been cornered and made to pay for his misbehaviour, no matter how many lawyers he threw in and tried to delay things. If the Dems make impeachment an ongoing, rolling, building process, Trump's base for the most part will eventually crumble. As will many GOP senators when they realise they are supporting a career liar and criminal.

Once is bad. Twice is a lot worse. Three times...rethink your life choices, guys.

 

[Armitage72]

It seems to me that the issue to Trump isn't 'winning', but rather he feels that someone else has to lose. And lose bigly. So far he feels he can't win because no one has lost.

I was thinking back to the election, and all of the lies he spouted because he didn't win enough.

Lost the popular vote?
Claim that millions of illegal votes were cast and he actually won.

Electoral win ranked #46 out of 58?
Claim to have one of the largest margins of victory in history.

Inauguration crowds smaller than his predecessor?
Claim the largest crowd in history and a media conspiracy to conceal it, and forbid the Parks Service from posting photos.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

If I'm reading this thread correctly, no matter what the Democrats do it's all their fault? It's either their fault because:

a) They didn't list a crime
b) They're not pushing the articles up
c) They are pushing the articles up
d) Because.

That's the crux of this thread from what I can tell. There is absolutely no move at this point in time that the Dems can make that would work to their political advantage.

Talk about how ******* stupid this country is that we can't even remove someone that's committed crimes. No ******* wonder we're the laughing stock of the world. I'm embarrassed to even live here let alone pretend I'm represented by any of these dip ***** we have in office.

I dont think you can pin this all on democrats being solely at fault... although given the flow of these discussions (and me having filter through responses that protest 'shared blame' and all that fun stuff) it can be hard to filter through the noise. To actually talk about the errors in judgement that do take place while being able to still be critical of the POTUS for doing unnecessary crap.

At this stage I'm at the point where if you hated Trump already or his policies, or you supported him the impeachment inquiry isnt going to change minds. If theres anything I take away from all this...what we saw in last night's debate floor is a good representation of how the country's demographics are reacting to it.