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Cont: House Impeachment Inquiry - part 2

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smartcooky said:
Once, the Republicans were the party of defending America against the Red Threat - the defenders of Democracy and Capitalism and Human Rights, the party that carried out espionage against the old adversary, Russia (in the guise of the Soviet Union), the party that fought the Cold War in order to prevent Nuclear War.

Now they are the party of collusion.
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You don't get it. We were anti-Russia for one reason only - Communism. And not to defend Democracy or Human Rights, but simply because come the revolution we (ie. rich capitalists and wanabes) would be the first against the wall. Once the wall came down and our fortunes were safe, our 'concern' for Human Rights etc. evaporated.
 
Roger Ramjets said:
You don't get it. We were anti-Russia for one reason only - Communism. And not to defend Democracy or Human Rights, but simply because come the revolution we (ie. rich capitalists and wanabes) would be the first against the wall. Once the wall came down and our fortunes were safe, our 'concern' for Human Rights etc. evaporated.
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A cynical view, but one that is probably closer to the truth than many might believe!
 
Stacyhs said:
Their report reminds me of defense lawyers in court:

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, the prosecution's security camera video of my client pulling out his gun and shooting the deceased in the back doesn't prove, in any way, that my client actually killed the victim. Mr. Smith was still alive when taken to the hospital by ambulance but was deceased upon arrival. Who's to say the EMT's are not responsible for Mr. Smith's death? Of course the EMT's deny they caused Mr. Smith's death, but did anyone witness them actually trying to save Mr. Smith's life? NO! How dare the prosecution try to pin this on my client!
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acbytesla said:
:thumbsup::thumbsup:

The Republicans today. Gaslighting the world.
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No, no, no, no. The GOP version would look like this:

"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, WATCH THE VIDEO. There was no crime. No shooting. My client wants nothing. He wants nothing."

That's gaslighting.
 
I will be disappointed if the impeachment charges don’t include at least these...

1) Firing Comey. We have all 3 elements of the crime of Obstruction of Justice. The act of firing, of course. It’s intended effect on an ongoing investigation. The corrupt intent shown by his Lester Holt interview, comments to the Russian ambassador, and recent comments about how bad things would have been for him had he NOT fired Comey.

2) Soliciting McGahn to prepare a false statement. Again, I think all 3 elements are established in the Mueller Report.

3) Preparing a false statement on Air Force One to mislead investigators about the Trump Tower meeting.

As to that last, intent may be difficult to prove. And there are other cases outlined in Mueller where the first two elements are clear, but proving the intent may be problematic. I’d have to go back and review them all to see if any others might be included in the charges.

As has been pointed out, actions don’t have to be illegal to be impeachable. But outlining them all in the Senate trial will at least put Republican Senators on the record as condoning such behavior in a sitting president. I don’t think history will treat them well in this regard.
 
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Belz... said:
Their report reminds me of defense lawyers in court:

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, the prosecution's security camera video of my client pulling out his gun and shooting the deceased in the back doesn't prove, in any way, that my client actually killed the victim.
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No, no, no, no. The GOP version would look like this:

"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, WATCH THE VIDEO. There was no crime. No shooting. My client wants nothing. He wants nothing."

That's gaslighting.
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I figured the GOP version would be this:

"...ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!...If Chewbacca lives on Endor then there was no Quid pro Quo and no Collusion. The defense rests."
 
Segnosaur said:
I figured the GOP version would be this:

"...ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!...If Chewbacca lives on Endor then there was no Quid pro Quo and no Collusion. The defense rests."
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As I understand the legal system lingo (and I don't claim to understand it well), the "Chewbacca Defense" really is a thing now, and the Republicans are absolutely using the Chewbacca defense.

I think the current GOP position is:

"The supposed victim testified that my client pointed a gun at him and demanded money. But notice that my client never used the word 'robbery,' and didn't say 'or I'll shoot you.' There was no threat, there was no robbery. This was just a simple request for money. People ask each other for money all the time. Why are we wasting the court's time with this?
 
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dasmiller said:
As I understand the legal system lingo (and I don't claim to understand it well), the "Chewbacca Defense" really is a thing now, and the Republicans are absolutely using the Chewbacca defense.

I think the current GOP position is:

"The supposed victim testified that my client pointed a gun at him and demanded money. But notice that my client never used the word 'robbery,' and didn't say 'or I'll shoot you.' There was no threat, there was no robbery. This was just a simple request for money. People ask each other for money all the time. Why are we wasting the court's time with this?
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I'd add: "This was a perfect request for money! This is a HOAX! A witch hunt and nothing more than harassment of my client!"
 
Excellent speech by Schiff just now. Summed it up perfectly.
 
GlennB said:
Excellent speech by Schiff just now. Summed it up perfectly.
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Agreed. He hit the nail on the head. Sadly, I think the GOP will fail to recognize the truth of what he said and continue to put their own self-interests ahead of those of the country.

Stephanie Grisham's response:
At the end of a one-sided sham process, Chairman Schiff and the Democrats utterly failed to produce any evidence of wrongdoing by Pres. Trump. This report reflects nothing more than their frustrations. Chairman Schiff's report reads like the ramblings of a basement blogger straining to prove something when there is evidence of nothing.
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The GOP will accept nothing less than a full confession by Trump that he intentionally and knowingly broke the law and withheld the money unless Zelensky announced an investigation into Biden. They'll accept nothing less than Trump admitting he did this in order to damage his political rival in the upcoming elections. And even then, some would say that confession was misinterpreted.
 
Nunes is one of the sketchiest humans on Earth, but you have to be pretty stupid not to cover up phone calls:

The House Intelligence Committee's impeachment report -- which was made public Tuesday -- says the committee's top Repubican, Rep. Devin Nunes of California, was linked to that effort.

The records, according to Intelligence Committee member Rep. Eric Swalwell, were subpoenaed from third-parties.

"Mr. Solomon was not working alone," the report said of conservative journalist John Solomon's articles throughout 2019 that spread Trump-backed conspiracies about Ukraine. "As further described below, there was a coordinated effort by associates of President Trump to push these false narratives publicly, as evidenced by public statements, phone records, and contractual agreements."
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If this were any Tom, Dick or Harry off the street I'd say it sucks, but I'm pretty sure the House\Senate have the opportunities (like a ******* burn phone maybe) to keep from getting busted. Just goes to show that not all criminals are masterminds. I hope I get to watch Nunes go down with Trump.
 
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I'm just waiting for Trump to "quote" Zelensky -- "He said to me he said 'Sir... this isn't a quid pro quo.'"

That should be admissible evidence right there that he's lying about it.
 
Stacyhs said:
Agreed. He hit the nail on the head. Sadly, I think the GOP will fail to recognize the truth of what he said and continue to put their own self-interests ahead of those of the country.
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Fixed that for you.


Stacyhs said:
The GOP will accept nothing less than a full confession by Trump that he intentionally and knowingly broke the law and withheld the money unless Zelensky announced an investigation into Biden. They'll accept nothing less than Trump admitting he did this in order to damage his political rival in the upcoming elections. And even then, some would say that confession was misinterpreted.
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They won't even accept a confession. Not that there's any chance of that happening.
 
Trump Retweeted

Vice President Mike Pence
@VP
What’s happening on Capitol Hill is a disgrace and the fact that it’s happening during a @NATO Conference in London is a disservice to the American people and the United States.
 
Trump Retweeted

Dan Scavino Jr.
@Scavino45
Watching Schiff hold an embarrassing Impeachment Sham press conference in THE SWAMP from my phone, while President @realDonaldTrump is at #NATO70 in London with other World Leaders (below), representing the United States of America! Schiff is a total JOKE, embarrassing himself!!
 
If the GOP had been on the Titanic, they'd be shouting that it wasn't sinking and for everyone to just go back to their rooms. Just ignore the rising water; it's just a small leak.
 
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