horrifying attack on Jussie Smollett

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I think he intended for this to be a performance on camera.

I think he was stunned to learn that no camera captured it.

Otherwise, I can't see any reason to involve two other people.

I think he also thought there was no way CPD could ever locate the brothers.

If you want to disconnect yourself from purchases or mailing a letter, you only need one other person at most, and you don't really need that if you work it properly.

Involving two other people, and paying them, is guaranteeing failure, imo.

I'm not sure why he fingered the two bros "it's definitely them!" when then didn't fit the description he gave at the beginning. He should have kept it nebulous instead doubling down.


ETA: On the bright, if you're ever in Chicago and need to rollover someone for a bit of extra cash (in a city where there's the highest amount of surveillance cameras per capita in the US) there's one section where all of the cameras except one are facing the wrong direction!
 
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A strange comment I heard, from a black guy reporting (critically) on the Smollett case. He said it's crazy to think that a white guy would watch 'Empire'... because it's a black show. Is that a thing in the US? Shows for blacks and shows for whites? It seems odd to me.

Yes it's a thing. Yes part of Empire's audience is white. I doubt too many rascist homophobes watch it though. Personally, I had never heard of Smollett before this incident.
 
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I think as a message board we overall did pretty well on this case. I'd say a B+ at least.

Lots of immediate skepticism over the nature of the incident, starting with Travis being a bit tentative with his OP. Many posters were leaning one way of another, but most were waiting to come down hard on either side. Then some wild speculation, again mostly tentative and testing proposed scenarios with no-one getting all of the bizarre details right. And of course, we're still waiting for the final facts to emerge.
 
Getting a racist homophobe and an Empire-watching Jussie Smollett fan in the same place at the same time seems unlikely. Getting them together on the freezing streets of Chicago at 2 AM seems improbable. Getting them together in the same person seems absurd.

And that absurd proposition was the foundational element of the story, the thing Smollett expected us to believe a priori as the basis for the attack claim.
 
Yes it's a thing. Yes part of Empire's audience is white. I doubt not too many rascist homophobes watch it though. Personally, I had never heard of Smollett before this incident.

The way this is written you could be seen to be describing yourself as a racist homophone. :D
 
“As it happens”. Pure luck on my part, obviously.

You clearly think my 'yeah' was to the 'was too slow to recognize', but the 'yeah' was to the 'introspection' part, as the rest of that sentence should make very clear.

You don't know when I want from skeptical to believing it didn't happen as described. I don't know when you did because, shockingly, you didn't make that claim here in the thread until you the post I replied to. In fact you specifically claimed to Travis that you didn't automatically disbelieve this.

You haven't defined when the proper time to move between 'believe', 'skeptical', and 'disbelieve'.

Perhaps. Or perhaps I and others understood something about the world that you didn’t. You claim you’ve been introspective about this, but it seems you are only capable of that up to a point. It’s not even a possibility worth entertaining that I might have understood the situation better than you, you have to rationalize that away.

You didn't unless your understanding has expanded since the thread on the bombs sent to George Soros and others. I'm skeptical of that, and you will provide no evidence of it.

When, exactly, did you decide the evidence was strong enough to disbelieve this? When, exactly, did I?

Just a reminder: a few days ago the police had arrested the brothers and the 'I'm Totally One Of The Good Ones' crowd immediately started running their judgemental victory lap. We don't actually have anything solid yet, and are relying on unofficial leaks regarding this assumed guilt of Smollett. Still might have more fun on tap.

Poster tyr_13 made an interesting comment about letting ideology distort your thinking, and coming to the right conclusion while using flawed logic. A couple posters aside, that is not what has been happening here. The story stunk to high heaven from it's initial presentation. I think posters here have been mostly sniffing around to find the feces, more than pushing agendas.

But I suppose there is no point in discussing that. Actually, it's kind of interesting how the ITOOTGOs will insult no matter the outcome. They certainly did so here, when they thought their narrative had prevailed. They've gotten inexplicably quiet in the last couple days, of course, while The Doubters have sustained discussion all along. I think that means something.

Posters are claiming that they were called vile racists only because they disbelieved this attack. 'A couple posters aside', that also is not happening here.

More on the initial 'evidence' below.

This was specifically why I doubted it originally. It's hard to follow but I see that some of these elements have been embellished or implied by various reporting (rather than being said by Smollett directly) so I can't rely on that reasoning quite AS much.

Red flags are important, but they are not in and of themselves generally evidence. Red flags based on elements reported by TMZ? Definitely not evidence.

And as I keep pointing out, things even more crazy than what was alleged here actually did happen.

More generally, the 'unified' reasoning that some tended to here isn't all that useful either. Even without incomplete or dubious information, requiring one explanation for every element, or that all the elements tie together, can blind people to compound causes. I see this all the time in lab. 'But that doesn't explain x AND y', well, they aren't always caused by the same things. Red herrings aren't just made by humans; they naturally occur too.

Another confounding element is the loose use of the word 'knew'. When someone says, 'I knew it!' they don't always mean they 'knew', but that they 'strong suspected it could be true'.
 
To me one of the most interesting aspects of the story is the fact that we have a guy that had a successful career that many would dream of as a professional actor, but it seems what he really wanted was to get the sympathy and attention of being the victim of a certain kind of hate crime. The motivation was so strong that he spent a good amount of money and effort to try and stage the perfect progressive "I told you so" hate crime story with himself at the center.

Think about that for a moment. It is almost as if the highest status one can achieve within certain segments of the population is that of a certain kind of victimhood.
 
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Ben Bradley admits that he heard skepticism early, but did not report it.
Interesting to know that. Wonder what he was thinking of the Smollett story himself?


Ben Bradley
‏Verified account @BenBradleyTV
Feb 17

Ben Bradley Retweeted Brad Thor

I have to disagree with you on this. Your theory is the equivalent of saying: “After this, I don’t know how any reasonable police officer would ever believe any far-fetched story.”

Police (& media) treated it as credible until clear evidence pointed in the other direction. 1/2


Ben Bradley
‏Verified account @BenBradleyTV
Feb 17

Should we have reported the skepticism we were hearing from sources sooner? Possibly. But we erred on the side of caution.

Oh, & if I had a nickel for every skeptical police source I hear from, I wouldn’t be wasting time tweeting. I’d be luxuriating on my own private island. 2/2
57 replies 1 retweet 60 likes
 
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Without film of the men attacking JS, they couldn't even prove it was one or the other involved. Can't nail conspiracy down positively, either.

Don't be surprised if it turns out the CPD has film of the incident or at least more film than they let us know about.

Also, don't be surprised if they have phone records of him and the one brother leading up to, and shortly after the incident.

There will be no ability to point fingers at the other brother, they've both already given a statement implicating Smollett. This is why they were released.
Their story matched the evidence that the CPD had, Smollett is acting like the police only have what they have shown the public.
 
Don't be surprised if it turns out the CPD has film of the incident or at least more film than they let us know about.

Also, don't be surprised if they have phone records of him and the one brother leading up to, and shortly after the incident.

There will be no ability to point fingers at the other brother, they've both already given a statement implicating Smollett. This is why they were released.
Their story matched the evidence that the CPD had, Smollett is acting like the police only have what they have shown the public.

Would this hypothetical video show an attack, or would it show a Benny Hill skit?

IOW, if the police saw video of the attack, would the performance have fooled them?
 
Smollett could have told the Nigerians that he was playing a prank on his manager, or on Frank Gaston.

We don't know how Smollett presented the deal.

I suppose anything is possible but think about the circumstances at the time. All of these people should have been very aware that the FBI was looking in to a crime already. Think about how stupid the idea of even a prank like this should have been at the time. And thousands of dollars for a prank?

Minor point for my curiosity here: Did we ever get a real description or picture of the noose?
 
I'm not sure why he fingered the two bros "it's definitely them!" when then didn't fit the description he gave at the beginning. He should have kept it nebulous instead doubling down.

It is a bit odd that he immediately and certainly ID'd the two people in the released stills.

Word at the time was that they were probably homeless, because who else would have to be out on a night like that, and they were walking in the wrong direction.

He either thought they'd never be located, or he actually did not realize those two people were his employees.

In the first case, he was really stupid.

In the second case, he fingered innocent people.
 
I suppose anything is possible but think about the circumstances at the time. All of these people should have been very aware that the FBI was looking in to a crime already. Think about how stupid the idea of even a prank like this should have been at the time. And thousands of dollars for a prank?

Minor point for my curiosity here: Did we ever get a real description or picture of the noose?

Well, it wasn't actually going to be a prank, Smollett would have just used that line to explain to the Nigerians.

Possibly the letter not being publicized caused the need for a more public incident, such as a racist attack seen on security cameras.

IIRC, reports were that the noose was not tied like a noose, but like a neck tie.

Also reports were that it was untied when police arrived.
 
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