Homosexuality is a choice

Darat said:
The concept of "heterosexual" and "homosexual" as describing what people are is a social construct not some natural law.
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It is almost certainly not entirely a social construct.
 
Piggy said:
My question for men who think it's a choice is this: "Are you saying that you could choose to achieve and maintain an erection and have sex to orgasm with another man?"
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I dunno, man, do I also get a lot of booze and a viagra pill? I guess turning off the lights would also help too ;)
 
Rufo said:
You can choose what to do. You can't choose what to want.

I can only assume that those who call sexual orientation a choice are referring to action or inaction; acting on your wishes, or refusing to take action to change them. Yes, those are choices. What you want, however, is not.
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Agreed.

I've always seen sexual attraction like food attraction. I compare it to ice cream flavors. For example, a person might prefer vanilla or chocolate or strawberry, and usually eat that flavor, but when presented with a different kind of dish, with different toppings put together by a different cook, that person would enjoy rocky roads.

IMHO, if the process that produces people's tastes in sex is exactly like the process that produces people's tastes in food, then it is from a mixture of nature, nurture and circumstance: in other words, it just is. It's like asking a person "Why don't you like bananas????" or "Why do you like very spicy food?"
 
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JFrankA said:
Agreed.

I've always seen sexual attraction like food attraction. I compare it to ice cream flavors. For example, a person might prefer vanilla or chocolate or strawberry, and usually eat that flavor, but when presented with a different kind of dish, with different toppings put together by a different cook, that person would enjoy rocky roads.

IMHO, if the process that produces people's tastes in sex is exactly like the process that produces people's tastes in food, then it is from a mixture of nature, nurture and circumstance: in other words, it just is. It's like asking a person "Why don't you like bananas????" or "Why do you like very spicy food?"
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I am genetically repulsed by marmite.
 
JFrankA said:
Agreed.

I've always seen sexual attraction like food attraction. I compare it to ice cream flavors. For example, a person might prefer vanilla or chocolate or strawberry, and usually eat that flavor, but when presented with a different kind of dish, with different toppings put together by a different cook, that person would enjoy rocky roads.

IMHO, if the process that produces people's tastes in sex is exactly like the process that produces people's tastes in food, then it is from a mixture of nature, nurture and circumstance: in other words, it just is. It's like asking a person "Why don't you like bananas????" or "Why do you like very spicy food?"
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I don't think that's a very wise analogy to make against the typical people who bring up the topic. Many tastes are acquired; who really liked their first portion of Brussels sprouts or of liver; or their first plate of spicy food? You only ate it because mummy told you to finish your plate.

This analogy plays into the hands of those idiots who think you can "cure" a girl of being lesbian by raping her. And more in general, of the crowd who thinks that gays and lesbians can be "cured" of their "affliction"; and those who apparently are afraid that homosexuality is contagious, or something along that line.

And it seems to me that that is exactly the crowd who wants to bring up the question whether homosexuality is a choice or innate - preferring the first answer of course. Personally, I couldn't care less what the cause(s) is/are, except for scientific curiosity.
 
ddt said:
I don't think that's a very wise analogy to make against the typical people who bring up the topic. Many tastes are acquired; who really liked their first portion of Brussels sprouts or of liver; or their first plate of spicy food? You only ate it because mummy told you to finish your plate.

This analogy plays into the hands of those idiots who think you can "cure" a girl of being lesbian by raping her. And more in general, of the crowd who thinks that gays and lesbians can be "cured" of their "affliction"; and those who apparently are afraid that homosexuality is contagious, or something along that line.

And it seems to me that that is exactly the crowd who wants to bring up the question whether homosexuality is a choice or innate - preferring the first answer of course. Personally, I couldn't care less what the cause(s) is/are, except for scientific curiosity.
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Good point. I've never thought of it like that because I don't ever try to "acquire a taste" for anything. I seems stupid to me to have a reward for drinking/eating something you don't like over and over is drinking/eating something you don't like.... you know?? :) And if something is an "acquired taste" does that mean you really don't like it and you're fooling yourself?

At any rate, I think you're right, it's not a great analogy. Sorry about that.
 
Soapy Sam said:
Many men have practised homosexual behaviour on ships, in jail , in boarding schools and in other situations where women were simply unavailable. Some continue in a normal context, many don't. It's likely some of these men were "innately" homosexual, but suppressed it in normal society, but I suspect a lot of them simply go along with it because sex is fun- and while it may be more fun with a woman, a willing male will do. Some of course, are unwillingly coerced- but how bad can it be, for instance, to have another guy masturbate you? I never had the experience, but it doesn't sound so frightful. Guys have a lot of practice, after all.
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Ah yes, the all male boarding school problem.

The flaw with this logic is that while the acts may be with another of the same sex the mind is with another of a different sex. When you find a straight man masturbating while thinking of another man you will have a better argument that sexuality is a choice than a straight man having another guy help him get off while thinking about a female.

Sex may be below the belt, but sexuality is between the ears.

That is not to say that sexuality if fixed, but the examples used are more about what is available to simulate the sex the person prefers, not a change in preference.
 
Homosexuality -- BEING a homosexual -- is not a choice, since there is no action. To engage in homosexual ACTS is a choice. (So is, of course, engaging in heterosexual acts). It is a category mistake to confuse the two.
 
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Fnord said:
Celibacy is a choice...

... It's just not yours!
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Oh, the painful truth of that!

On the main subject, I tried an experiment. I decided to be gay for a day. I actively chose to be attracted to men and have a better sense of color combination. Largely, I failed. My only success came in the form of cleaning and trimming my nails, and clipping my nose hairs.

I was unable to make an authentic choice. Of course, others may have more force of will.
 
I support gay guys. Less competition trying to get the ladies. :D Lesbians are of course evil! ;)
 
I am an intellectual chap,
And think of things that would astonish you.
I often think it's comical – Fal, lal, la!
How Nature always does contrive – Fal, lal, la!
That every boy and every gal
That’s born into the world alive
Is either a little Liberal
Or else a little Conservative!
Fal, lal, la!
- from Private Willis' Song , by W.S. Gilbert.

Of course nowadays they are happy clones, but I'm sure some are gay and some not.


Darat said:
It is not about grouping people together it is exposing a fundamental flaw in the whole idea behind the concept of the opening post, the opening post arises only if we accept that when we label someone "homosexual" or "heterosexual" we are labelling something that is objective.
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Not sure I'm understanding you here. Care to expand on this?
 
Skeptic said:
Homosexuality -- BEING a homosexual -- is not a choice, since there is no action. To engage in homosexual ACTS is a choice. (So is, of course, engaging in heterosexual acts). It is a category mistake to confuse the two.
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So , would you say a man who had sex with other boys at school, but shows no such interests in later life, marrying and having a string of affairs with women, is heterosexual, but a man who has only ever sexually fantasised over other men, yet dies, a virgin, at 98 was homosexual?

ie you would completely ignore their actual behaviour?

If we adopt a behavioural criterion, we can be objective. If we adopt a mental one, how do we apply it?
 
bynmdsue said:
Homosexuality is no more than a depraved degeneracy.
It is the most horrible thing in the world to be.
That's why no queer chooses to be that way.
They cannot help themselves.
Pity the fairies and their poor lot in life.
They did not ask to be born a perverted mockery of nature.
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That's right! And you and I should go out for a drink sometime at a nice secluded lounge and talk about it...
 
Dani said:
Homosexuallity is wrong.
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in a reproductive way yes, that doesn't work, but most of them know that, and still seem fairly happy with it. so other than reproduction, what is wrong about it?
 
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