Homoeopathy: Help explain it to our credulous parliamentarians!

[symball]

Matty - this is an impressively intelligent response. Contrast this with what I got from my MP:
Quote:
We will have to agree to differ about homeopathy

I have no compunction in revealing that he is Robert Key.

Perhaps you could reply to him saying that you are glad that your opinion on gravity is the same as it would be very inconvenient to have a floating MP

 

[Mojo]

Perhaps you could reply to him saying that you are glad that your opinion on gravity is the same as it would be very inconvenient to have a floating MP

Or perhaps imply that your opinions on gravity are different: MPs usually try to agree with floating voters.

 

[Mashuna]

Well, I got a reply today from my MP. Some standard political sniping in the first couple of paragraphs about NHS funding vs the current deficit. The sections on homoepathy are fairly standard apologist stuff:

Against this backdrop [£900m deficit], it is not surprising that Trusts have decided to take the axe to homeopathic care, as a short term solution to their financial difficulties. I am opposed to these short sighted cuts because homeopathic care is enormously valued by thousands of people and, in an NHS that the Government repeatedly tells us is 'patient-led', it ought to be available where it is wanted and proves cost and clinically effective.

It is clear that the Government is giving no commitment to safeguard the future of homeopathic treatment on the NHS, and I have therefore chosen to sign Early Day Motion 1240.

The gist is that if people want it, they should have it. I may write back agreeing that it should be available if it proves clinically effective, but as this hasn't ever happened, I don't want my money wasted on it.

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

Well, I got a reply today from my MP. Some standard political sniping in the first couple of paragraphs about NHS funding vs the current deficit. The sections on homoepathy are fairly standard apologist stuff:


The gist is that if people want it, they should have it. I may write back agreeing that it should be available if it proves clinically effective, but as this hasn't ever happened, I don't want my money wasted on it.

To be honest I see some degree of hope in this one. There is nothing that I read in the bit quoted that states any view on whether homeopathy works. I would suggest a nicely worded letter back saying that you understand he is opposed to cuts in healthcare budgets and agree completely with what he says about resources being available for clinically effective treatment.

However in the current environment to be spending scarce resources on treatments that have no scientific evidence to support them at a time when medicines that have been proven to make a real difference (giving perhaps an example: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6749351.stm) are not being funded is a luxury that the NHS cannot afford.

 

[rjh01]

The best link is this one http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2002/homeopathy.shtml

 

[Big Les]

Fantastic

I see the delightful Captain Blunt is back on the "music" scene with a whiny new anthem of mediocrity. Time to break out the Benn classic "I may just have to..." And bizarrely, there's also a song about Richard Dawkins!

There was a piece on Radio 4 this morning about the lack of funding for the treatment of mental illness, including cognitive behaviour therapy which neither my mum nor girlfriend (both of whom have been referred for it) have been on a greater than 12 month waiting list for. In fact my bipolar mum has been told she won't actually be able to get it on the NHS.

The fact that stacks of cash are being blown on outright placebo dressed up as real treatment really grips my poo.

 

[martu]

I also wrote to my MP about this (Bromley) and have a written reply waiting for me at home, more of the same I expect but I will let you all know.

Re Key in Salisbury, a friend of mine got a very similar reply from him, including this gem when he was asked if there was a call for Witch Doctors on the NHS what would he do:

"No doubt if someone made a serious request for funding for a witch doctor, the NHS Executive would have to consider it."

I don't feel so bad about heckling him at a talk he gave to my 6th form in Salisbury now.

 

[JQH]

I've taken my MP (Jim Dowd, Lewisham West) to task about signing the EDM. Have yet to receive a reply.

 

[jimbob]

My MP, Tom Levitt, claims to discount any correspondence that is not* electronic.


He's a twat, but hasn't signed the EDM.

*In one of his columns in the Buxton Advertiser.

 

[volatile]

I also wrote to my MP about this (Bromley) and have a written reply waiting for me at home, more of the same I expect but I will let you all know.

Re Key in Salisbury, a friend of mine got a very similar reply from him, including this gem when he was asked if there was a call for Witch Doctors on the NHS what would he do:

"No doubt if someone made a serious request for funding for a witch doctor, the NHS Executive would have to consider it."

I don't feel so bad about heckling him at a talk he gave to my 6th form in Salisbury now.

Forward that to the local and national press immediately. The local paper would probably put it on the front page, and it would definitely get a run in the red-tops.

There is no way such a campaign can fail to hurt his re-election chances, either...

 

[Asolepius]

Forward that to the local and national press immediately. The local paper would probably put it on the front page, and it would definitely get a run in the red-tops.

There is no way such a campaign can fail to hurt his re-election chances, either...

A stuffed gorilla wearing a blue rosette would get elected around here.....

 

[volatile]

A stuffed gorilla wearing a blue rosette would get elected around here.....

The Daily Mail would rip this guy to shreds, I'd suspect. Dyed-in-the-wool Tory voters hate their politicians a) wasting their tax money, b) wasting money that should be funding hip replacements for old ladies and c) wasting their tax money that should be funding hip replacements for old ladies on primitive magic not dressed up in the comfortable Western aura that homoeopathy enjoys.

Seriously, punt it to the local paper, the Daily Mail, the Sun and the Mirror. He'll probably still get re-elected, but it'll hurt his majority.

 

[Naughtyhippo]

My MP doesn't seem to have signed it - what should I send? I thought of a simile to explain one of the basic principles and why it's rubbish:

Homeopaths believe that their 'treatments' are much more effective diluted so, do you get drunker quicker on 4% or 14% scrumpy?

 

[jimbob]

here is a link with a youtube commentry on a recent Channel4 news story about this:



From Gimpy's Blog

pretty fair comment

 

[rjh01]

jimbob's link does not work. Try this one instead.

[/quote]

 

[jimbob]

Thanks rjh01, I thought it was worth watching...

 

[EagleEye]

Ya know, honestly, that video was rather childish and silly... The points made were good, but born of anger, not reason... the person who put the comments up on top of the video seemed to be acting out a child's temper tantrum, rather than making any sort of reasoned rebuttal.

Honestly, such activity in the public eye only does disservice to everyone else who is trying to reasonably and intelligently debate the topic, and change people's minds.

 

[volatile]

- CROSS POST - Apologies, I thought I was replying in this thread when posting in other, though the information is germane to both.

This was in the Guarian yesterday. Tom Whipple emailed every single one of these MPs and has collated a list of those who replied (at http://statsdontlie.wordpress.com/2007/11/19/guardian-article-on-homeopathy-full-mp-responses-in-next-post/) and produced a brief piece of reportage:

The replies varied from pragmatic to puzzling, but few contained evidence.
Lembit Opik argued - in an admirably bold deviation from accepted medical practice - that taxpayers should pay for treatments until they are shown to fail, rather than the other way around. "The onus is less on homeopathy to prove itself than on its detractors to prove it necessarily does not work," he said.
Harry Cohen joined him at the more eccentric end of the spectrum by implying that conventional medical treatments were improperly tested (he would not say which ones) and referring to Prince Charles as someone "who has made a very strong case" for homeopathy.
Some emails bounced and fewer than half the MPs replied. However, many responses were perfectly reasonable. John Hemming spoke for many when he said: "Even if you take the perspective that it only acts like a psychological treatment, then it is effective."

One response that jumps out at me is this one:

BRIAN JENKINS

Dear Tom,

Thank you for approaching me as one of the Members of Parliament who signed in support of Early Day Motion 1240 titled ‘NHS Homeopathic Hospitals.’

When I look to sign EDM’s I always approach them with an open mind and base the decision on which to sign them on common sense. Regardless of whom the sponsor is my, conclusion to either support it or not is based solely on the merits evident.

In the case of this EDM I was able to rely on the excellent research done on behalf of the British Homeopathic Association and Faculty of Homeopathy.

Bolding mine. Could our elective representatives' grip on reality be any more tenuous? If this is how they approach such a manifestly absurd EDM, how do they approach the more nuanced and complex issues they are required to vote on every single day?

"Sir.

There is no evidence that spousal abuse harms spouses. I am confident that the excellent research of the British Association of Wife Beaters, which unequivocally proves this, is sufficient to render any further discussion moot"

 

[Father Dagon]

2) Potentiation - that this effect becomes stronger the more the curative mixture is diluted. Common dilutions are measured in centesimal scales, e.g. 30C. This means that a drop of the substance is added to a volume of 100 drops of water and tapped against a leather book (succussed). A drop of this dilute mixture is diluted 100:1 and succussed. For 30C dilution, the process is repeated 30 times – this means you will have one drop of original mixture spread amongst the combined volume of all the oceans on the planet.

Does that mean that 30C = 100^30 = 10^60?

For a wuthering comparison, explain how much water you would need to dilute one litre (or pint or whatever) to 30C in one go.

 

[Zep]

That's correct. 1:10^60 = 30C.

However that's just at the low end of the remedy dilution scale. Many common remedies are given that are made to 200C, which is 1:10^400 dilution! I seem to recall that's one molecule in a "globe" of water several times the size of our solar system. Out of which one or two drops are taken and supposedly have magical healing powers!

But wait! It gets even sillier!

Some remedies are diluted to up to LM rating. Yes, indeed! That's the equivalent of a dilution to 500,000X, or 1:10^1,000,000!!!