Homeopathy is such a crock. Thanks Randi

[Calrid]

And my refutation of your argument is simple: the NHS. An organisation that does not profit from illness or medicine. It would be in the best interests of everyone involved with it to use the cheap, natural cures you tout. I wonder why they don't?

I love how people arguing "big pharma" forget that the American health care model simply doesn't apply to so much of the world.

That's probably why their health care sucks so badly really.

Someone hasn't figured out yet that pure capitalism and health don't mix.

 

[Dragonrock]

Middle aged men still keep popping their Viagra when all they need to do is to visit their local health food store and take 3-5 grams of L-Arginine on an empty stomach which serves as a precursor to the production of nitric oxide to help with vasodilation and general cardiovascular health. There have been plenty of studies to support this and if I get a challenge here I'll go to the bother of looking that up.

Consider yourself challenged. Also, on this forum it is best to consider yourself challenged on every post you make.

 

[Skepdan]

During the interim of administrating the WS I was also instructed to not administer any oral supplements of Vitamin E as tocopherol acetate tends to thin the blood and too much thinning can lead to hemmorage. This, of course, begged the question, "Why not simply adminsiter large doses of vitamin E and forego the rat poisoning"? Of course, the answer is simple

Coumadin (aka Warfarin) use needs to be closely monitored to ensure you're getting just the right amount based on the blood tests you have. Your doc is telling you not to take Vitamin E so it doesn't screw up the doses you're being prescribed.

You can't simply assume that Vitamin E on its own is a viable alternative. The amount of it you'd need may well cause more problems than the Warfarin. Vitamin E affects the heartbeat and is dangerous in high doses.

 

[dafydd]

Mitchell and Webb putting homeopathy in it's place
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVV3QQ3wjC8

 

[Emet]

And people also seem to forget that drugs actually come from nature and most specifically from South America. They are then just altered in an attempt to up their efficacy while removing their safety.

Only some drugs come from natural substances. They are altered to isolate, purify and put it in a clinically effective dose.

The huge advantages of medical science has been the advent of penicillin and other antibiotics (though many do more damage then good and have the FDA Black Box Warning on them)and vacinations which have upped the survival rate and life expectancy considerably.

There are large groups of drugs besides antibiotics that have improved quality of life, and serve to manage chronic diseases. Black box warnings arise when a certain serious risk is identified. That doesn't mean they are more damaging than they are worth. In fact, they are often still used for the group they have been identified to pose additional risk to.

My summation here and my point is simply this: Go with nature when it has provided ample evidence of its effectiveness and when that fails, go with conventional medicine. Nothing is perfect and we all end up getting hit. It may be our choice as to whether we get hit by a Mac Truck or a Volkswagon Beetle.

Can you provide evidence for 'nature's' efficacy in the management of any condition? Are you suggesting we should not treat disease conditions until they are severe and life-threatening?

 

[Zep]

Another reason to purify drugs from their "natural" material is to make a reliable, consistent dosages possible. That is, to maintain a standard.

It's no good saying to a patient "A sprig of St John's Wort will fix that". How much is "a sprig"? And is the plant you take it from going to be more or less concentrated with the active ingredients, compared to someone else's "test" plant. Depending on how and where and under what conditions plants are grown, even being of the same variety, their individual chemical contents may vary hugely.

Further, many plants have multiple compounds in them, some of which may actually be very harmful, particularly if allergies are involved. So to take enough of the "good" compound, the patient may also consume large amounts of dangerous or allergy-inducing compounds. Best example is the use of some herbals in conjunction with particular active drugs - they can nullify or severely enhance the effect without warning.

 

[fls]

Sure, there is a lot of "crack poterry" out there but I am convinced there are times when a more natural approach will suffice and without the deleterious effects of medicine. For example, I was once diagnosed with a DVT (a deep vein thrombosis that I actually diagnosed after several physicians sent me home telling me it's just a swelled leg) and was then administered with Coumadin which is nothing more than rat poisoing. This thinned the blood to help dislodge the blood clot slowly to help avoid a pulmonary embolism. I ened up with the most terrible side effects using this stuff and had to get off it. During the interim of administrating the WS I was also instructed to not administer any oral supplements of Vitamin E as tocopherol acetate tends to thin the blood and too much thinning can lead to hemmorage. This, of course, begged the question, "Why not simply adminsiter large doses of vitamin E and forego the rat poisoning"?

It isn't that vitamin E thins the blood, it's that it may interfere with coumadin in a way that inconsistently exaggerates the effect of coumadin. Taking vitamin E by itself doesn't have the effect of treating or preventing DVT's/PE's.

Of course, the answer is simple: Coumadin costs more.

They are both pretty cheap. I just did a quick comparison online. 100 Coumadin pills were about $50 and 100 vitamin E about $25.

And people also seem to forget that drugs actually come from nature and most specifically from South America. They are then just altered in an attempt to up their efficacy while removing their safety.

Yes, most drugs have a natural source. So it doesn't make any sense to pretend that 'natural' is different or better. If you are interested in safety or efficacy, it makes sense to use drugs which have been tested in a way that allows you to discover whether they are safe and/or efficacious. 'Natural', as a category, refers to drugs which haven't been tested in that way.

Middle aged men still keep popping their Viagra when all they need to do is to visit their local health food store and take 3-5 grams of L-Arginine on an empty stomach which serves as a precursor to the production of nitric oxide to help with vasodilation and general cardiovascular health. There have been plenty of studies to support this and if I get a challenge here I'll go to the bother of looking that up.

There seems to have been two randomized controlled trials for the use of L-Arginine in erectile dysfunction. Both were negative (one is reported as positive*) - that is, they did not demonstrate efficacy. And since we are agreed that there is nothing special about a natural source, why suggest substituting something which is not demonstrably effective for something which is demonstrably effective?

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1464-410x.1999.00906.x/full

"Effectiveness of Oral L-Arginine in First-Line Treatment of Erectile Dysfunction in a Controlled Crossover Study
Klotz, T. ; Mathers, M.J. ; Braun, M. ; Bloch, W. ; Engelmann, U.
Urol Int 1999;63:220-223 (DOI:10.1159/000030454)"

The huge advantages of medical science has been the advent of penicillin and other antibiotics (though many do more damage then good and have the FDA Black Box Warning on them)

Drugs which "do more damage then (sic) good" are withdrawn from the market (if they are not 'Natural'), so your statement must be incorrect.

and vacinations which have upped the survival rate and life expectancy considerably. I would have died at a very young age if not for an antibiotic to help clear up my lung infection-something no herb or BS line from some voodo doctor could have done no matter how much smoke he blew on me or how many needles he stuck in me.

My summation here and my point is simply this: Go with nature when it has provided ample evidence of its effectiveness and when that fails, go with conventional medicine. Nothing is perfect and we all end up getting hit. It may be our choice as to whether we get hit by a Mac Truck or a Volkswagon Beetle.

The problem with your advice is this..."nature with ample evidence of effectiveness" is conventional medicine. That is, there is no distinction to be made.

Linda

*The first study is reported as though it were positive with the following statement:

"At the end of the study, nine of 29 (31%) men treated with l-arginine but only two of 17 treated with placebo reported a significant improvement in sexual function in their diaries."

But what is odd is that there is no mention of a statistical test of those results. So I performed a Chi-square test and it turns out that the difference between placebo and l-arginine was not significant (not even close).

 

[315540]

As James randi has demonstrated, homeopathic sleeping pills contain caffeine. This makes you "sleepy". If I wanted to stay awake for an extended period of time, could I take ambien and dilute it and stay up for days or even weeks on end?

Also, why does diluting pain killers, vicodin, etc.. Not make the effect stronger. It blows my mind.

 

[MikeSun5]

Also, why does diluting pain killers, vicodin, etc.. Not make the effect stronger. It blows my mind.

The less alcohol in the booze you drink, the more drunk you get. Especially if there's no alcohol at all. Frickin blast-off time!

Time to save some money!

 

[Frankh]

Where could I find the values of for example D3 or D10 ?

 

[dafydd]

Homeopathy pills work. I've taken many for differing conditions and they always are effective. With some, you can actually Feel them working.
There's no argument for me about it. When you know, you know. Scientists are still struggling with how they work. They'll figure it out.

In the past I have been a naughty boy and swapped peoples homeopathic pills and liquid preparations for calcium pills and distilled water. They felt them working too. I figured it out years ago. The placebo effect.