I'm so shocked! You called me a "Fundie"! I have seen the error of my ways. From now on I will accept any claim whatsover without any critical thought. No matter how ridiculous the claim may be, if it is good enough for your strict standards, it will be good enough for me. Now I only have to get rid of that damn brain of mine that prevents me from being so admirably gullible...Olaf/QII said:
Homeopathic migraine relief
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Badly Shaved Monkey
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Rolfe said:
Thinking about it, I'd have killed that at the scrutineering stage if I'd been given the paper. Even before I tangled with homeopaths I had a fairly acute sense for the sneaky misuse of words by (shall we be generous?) over-enthusiastic authors.
Xanta's citation does reveal rather slack scrutineering as well as loose thinking by the author.
quibbling over words...
just another lame attempt at trying to discredit something and in this case no one has even read the paper.
UNBELIEVABLE!
Their use of the word permanent could be due in part to translation, or to make a point that the effect is long lasting or at least until some external action destroys the properties of the solution.
One might have to take a look at Louis Rey's followup to his 2003 Physica A paper for a clue.
He used high pressure (12 bars) to cancel out the 2nd peak which is believed to be due to the hydrogen bonding. (not due to contamination which everyone cried out)
One might be inclined to believe that the effect is permanent until acted upon in some extreme manner.
In this case a physical effect is canceled out by a physical process.
just another lame attempt at trying to discredit something and in this case no one has even read the paper.
UNBELIEVABLE!
Their use of the word permanent could be due in part to translation, or to make a point that the effect is long lasting or at least until some external action destroys the properties of the solution.
One might have to take a look at Louis Rey's followup to his 2003 Physica A paper for a clue.
He used high pressure (12 bars) to cancel out the 2nd peak which is believed to be due to the hydrogen bonding. (not due to contamination which everyone cried out)
One might be inclined to believe that the effect is permanent until acted upon in some extreme manner.
In this case a physical effect is canceled out by a physical process.
Badly Shaved Monkey
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BSM,
the fact is that the physico-chemical properties are altered for SAD's (serially agitated..)
you just need to deal with it. Why does it disturb you so much? You should be excited that science is expanding in such a way that might be able to help humans.
the fact is that the physico-chemical properties are altered for SAD's (serially agitated..)
you just need to deal with it. Why does it disturb you so much? You should be excited that science is expanding in such a way that might be able to help humans.
Badly Shaved Monkey
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How are those bowels? Must we assume they are good at the moment, hence your renewed vigour here? Presumably you'll go away when your next deterioration occurs and homeopathy is not looking so perfect.
Badly Shaved Monkey
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Olaf/QII said:
It doesn't really. You get very excited about it, but it doesn't really bother me one way or the other. If a decent paper showed a real effect then so be it, science will incorporate the new information. It has no bearing on the fraud that is homeopathy.
I see you are now ignoring the over-ambitious claim to pemanent effects when it is pointed out that it might threaten the reliability of the study. Ah, well. It's your problem, not mine.
what have you been smoking?Badly Shaved Monkey said:
it provides the mechanism for the histamine/basophil papers and all the other in vitro studies that support the idea that SAD's are bioactive, and it supports the numerous DBPC studies that support homeopathy, and it supports the millions of patients and MDs that know it works.
that is the BEARING that it has.
Badly Shaved Monkey
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Olaf/QII said:Just curious, why do you keep asking me about my bowels?
Because, Xanta, a temporary and partial improvement in whatever intestinal malady it is that afflicts you is the irrational basis of your unshakeable faith in homeopathy despite all the evidence that it is a con. Don't you remember telling us all that? The disease must be affecting your memory.
Rolfe
Adult human female
So much for not really caring about homoeopathy, and just being interested in the apparent anomaly being reported. Agenda, anyone?Olaf/QII said:
So, about those sugar pills. About the preparations getting more potent with successive dilutons. About the squillions of homoeopathic preparations made from virtually inert substances (latex condom, and so on). And about the little problem that if a teensy drop of this prion-water were indeed to convert all the body water to its own structure, and become bioactive, there's no conceivable way the effects would be "gentle". Any concept of what would happen if all of a certain type of cell was activated simulteneously, for example?
The argument, as you have just demonstrated, is circular. Nobody would be wasting their time on these flaky, unstable experiments that only seem to "work" when the wind is in the right direction and there's an R in the month (and maybe a Jamal in the lab), if it weren't for their desperate need to provide some sort of scientific crutch for the lameness that is homoeopathic theory. But then, when you actually consider what has been reported in the studies, it quite plainly isn't going to explain the actual claims of homoeopathy any time before hell freezes over.
You can't take the studies seriously without a fervent belief in homoeopathy. But then, where does that get you. Nowhere, so far as homoeopathy is concerned.
Rolfe.
Badly Shaved Monkey
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Olaf/QII said:Just curious, why do you keep asking me about my bowels?
Found the thread to illustrate my point now;
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34539&perpage=40&pagenumber=4
You were "Gold" at that stage.
Badly Shaved Monkey
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Olaf/QII said:
You forgot the Queen of England.
Homeopathy is an obvious fake for reasons that go way beyond these papers, whether or not they show real effects.
But, I thought you were the one with no axe to grind. Why should it matter whether these papers have anything to do with homeopathy. Aren't they just blue-sky pure research. Don't tell us you have an agenda and a need to validate your preconceived (and misconceived) notions.
Whatever next? I am shocked!
Rolfe
Adult human female
Oh, I'd completely forgotten that conversation! Back when you were Lost Boy.Badly Shaved Monkey said:
And Xanta knew that all these crusty old vets knew all along that duodenal/peptic ulcers were bacterial in origin, based on some analogy about pigs, and they argued and they argued with the medics, but the medics said go away, the stomach is too acid for bacteria to live, ulcers are caused by stress.
So, I asked her for her evidence (that is, the evidence that anyone at all before Mitchell and Warren had suggested a bacterial aetiology, and specifically, that any vets had ever put that suggestion to the medical establishment), and she simply said, shame on you for not knowing all about that.
I've seldom met anyone quite so credulous of any tale that suits her agenda, and so completely shameless when her total absence of evidence is exposed. I'm sorry I urged you to come and debate. I thought she had become a little more rational, was perhaps capable of having a sensible discussion (and I was interested in hearing another professiona view of Ennis's publications). I was wrong. She's really no different. Agenda, blind belief, and desperate need to convert this insignificant little forum to her beliefs. And 20-point bold pastel-coloured fonts (based on the description of these as "pretty" I hereby elevate my assessment that she is female to about 99% certain).
Lets go look at some more Magic Eye.
Rolfe.
Badly Shaved Monkey
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Rolfe said:
I can't make it work now it's dark outside: my eyes don't seem to be able to focus on infinity without a real view of a distant scene to help.
As for Xanta, I've had enough fun and it's time to stop toying with her. She doesn't want to listen, so she can join Kumar and MAS.
Badly Shaved Monkey
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Rolfe said:
And before Xanta cries, "Sock" as if it made her multiple identites anything other than an attempt at fraud, Lost Boy was damaged by the JREF software and BSM was born with the full knowledge of the Mods.
Badly Shaved Monkey
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Olaf/QII said:
and the point at which you PMd me with that same meaningless number is the point where you take a step too far. It's bad enough that you spam these boards, but downright rude to spam another member individually. I know you are deeply impressed by that number, but it is only meaningful if it was obtained in a meaningful way and I am not going to expend any more effort trying to get you to apply some critical reasoning to those citations you unthinkingly quote, but if you were quite as confident as you claim to be you wouldn't need to clutch onto that one small straw quite so desperately.
Make the effort. Learn some science and maybe one day you'll see why you have made such a fool of yourself.
Badly Shaved Monkey said:
Here we thus show that successive dilutions and succussions can permanently alter the physico-chemical properties of the water solvent.
Journal of Thermal Analysis and Calorimetry
Department of Chemistry, University 'Federico II' of Naples, Complesso Universitario di Monte S. Angelo, via Cintia, 80126 Naples
in this study the researchers stored the SAD's for up to 9 months and discovered that the effect still existed.
--and from page 835 of the study
"...the evolution of some physico-chemical parameters with time, that hints at the hypothesis of a trigger effect on the formation of molecular aggregates"
badly shaved monkey ---- do you still have a problem with their use of the word permanent?