Holocaust deniers, explain this.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Off course none of you care about the method, but that is a central issue of the Holocaust that simply cannot be sidestepped.

Why is because Hitler and in fact many other people believed that Bolshevism was primarily of Jewish origin and so it would be natural to consider them enemies of the state much like how japanese-americans were rounded up into crowded, inhumane concentration camps in the US. It's undeniable that the Nazis "hated" Jews for these reasons, but it's also true they supported Zionism which was a movement to establish a homeland for the Jews. Therefore I believe the truth is in the middle. They did most likely go after Jews, but also wanted to just get rid of them... from their country (and not necessarily exterminate them all).

Hitler had an agenda, and blaming the Jews for EVERYTHING was part of it. Fundamental point there no matter how hard people try to dance around it.

Anyways, I am still inclined to believe that gassings (or burning Jews) did not occur. To clarify, I'm talking gas chambers and not just some diesel trucks.

Your evidence that they didn't happen? You want to change history you need to provide some evidence to counter the body of evidence already extant.

These pictures also do not prove that all deaths were intentional either no matter how hard you try to insinuate.

"All"? Quibbling.

 

[Saggy]

Anyways, I am still inclined to believe that gassings (or burning Jews) did not occur. To clarify, I'm talking gas chambers and not just some diesel trucks.

The gas chamber hoax is perfectly transparent, all you need to do is have a look, via photographs, of the two 'gas chambers' in existence, one at Auschwitz and one at Majdanek. Both are obvious fakes as can be seen from the photographs here ...

http://www.holohoax101.com

There is also the fact that the US sent a team of forensic pathologists into the camps immediately after the war, and no body showing signs gas poisoning was found, then or at any time since.

 

[kageki]

Hitler had an agenda, and blaming the Jews for EVERYTHING was part of it. Fundamental point there no matter how hard people try to dance around it.

Your evidence that they didn't happen? You want to change history you need to provide some evidence to counter the body of evidence already extant.

"All"? Quibbling.

Yes basically I agreed to that, but I also added other people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Bolshevism

Gas chambers have been discussed a lot already. It's more like you need to provide the evidence that gassings did happen or even feasible. It's an unwieldy topic to start in this thread, but I will simply note again these pictures do not prove gassings or even intent in general.

How is that quibbling? Are you or not claiming that all these deaths were intentional? Big difference to me. The irony is that the gassings were supposedly in response to the epidemic.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Yes basically I agreed to that, but I also added other people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Bolshevism

Gas chambers have been discussed a lot already. It's more like you need to provide the evidence that gassings did happen or even feasible. It's an unwieldy topic to start in this thread, but I will simply note again these pictures do not prove gassings or even intent in general.

Sorry, that's been done to death. You want to prove they weren't intentional, cough up some evidence. Otherwise, have a nice day.

How is that quibbling? Are you or not claiming that all these deaths were intentional? Big difference to me. The irony is that the gassings were supposedly in response to the epidemic.

You said "all". If a meteor hit the camp and one of the doomed inmates received an early release from that Nazi-created hell, would that disqualify any and all evidence regarding the camps? I've seen that tactic before and it's quibbling in lieu of evidence.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The gas chamber hoax is perfectly transparent, all you need to do is have a look, via photographs, of the two 'gas chambers' in existence, one at Auschwitz and one at Majdanek. Both are obvious fakes as can be seen from the photographs here ...

http://www.holohoax101.com

There is also the fact that the US sent a team of forensic pathologists into the camps immediately after the war, and no body showing signs gas poisoning was found, then or at any time since.

Nice circulartity there Saggy, but the OP isn't about gas chambers. Start a thread on that if you wish. Call it "One Trick Pony Starts New Thread."

 

[MG1962]

The gas chamber hoax is perfectly transparent, all you need to do is have a look, via photographs, of the two 'gas chambers' in existence, one at Auschwitz and one at Majdanek. Both are obvious fakes as can be seen from the photographs here ...

http://www.holohoax101.com

Saggy you rumbled this evidence out on another thread and I asked you some questions about them and you never responded

 

[Oystein]

The gas chamber hoax is perfectly transparent, all you need to do is have a look, via photographs, of the two 'gas chambers' in existence, one at Auschwitz and one at Majdanek. Both are obvious fakes as can be seen from the photographs here ...

http://www.holohoax101.com

There is also the fact that the US sent a team of forensic pathologists into the camps immediately after the war, and no body showing signs gas poisoning was found, then or at any time since.

You are still dodging the OP, and you are still dodging a question specifically addressed at you earlier in a side topic you chose to engage me in . So may I quote post 102 again, for you?

Please note that neither the Einsatzgruppen Event Report that I quoted, nor my bolded question that you quoted, make any mention of Babyn Yar. You may assume, if you like, that Babyn Yar was not the site of any massacre. That still leaves open the question: Why did Einsatzgruppe 4a report the execution 33,771 Jews on 2 days in Kiev?


And of course, you have so far dodged the OP: How do you explain the photos and videos taken on the occasion of the liberation of Buchenwald? What had happened there, and why?

Please be so kind and address the issues, not the strawman.

 

[Oystein]

Off course none of you care about the method, but that is a central issue of the Holocaust that simply cannot be sidestepped.

It isn't sidestepped. It just isn't the topic of this thread.

Why is because Hitler and in fact many other people believed that Bolshevism was primarily of Jewish origin

Were they right? Do you believe this to be true also?
ETA: To the extent that among the philosophers of Bolshevism we find folks like Friedrich Engels, a full-blooded Prussian, or Lenin, who was as much of German as of Jewish descent, would you agree that Hitler should also have rounded up all Germans? /ETA

and so it would be natural to consider them enemies of the state

Were all the Jewish children, the Jewish peasants of Poland and the Ukrain, the Jewish elderly people, the Jewish women enemies of the state?

much like how japanese-americans were rounded up into crowded, inhumane concentration camps in the US.

Did starvation and epidemics run rampant in the US camps? Had Roosevelt or anybody else declared that revenge would be excated on the Japanese by exterminating them entirely from the continent, like Hitler declared with regard to the Jews of Europe in the Reichstag on january 30th 1939 - before the war even broke out?

It's undeniable that the Nazis "hated" Jews for these reasons, but it's also true they supported Zionism which was a movement to establish a homeland for the Jews. Therefore I believe the truth is in the middle. They did most likely go after Jews, but also wanted to just get rid of them... from their country (and not necessarily exterminate them all).

They did not support Zionism as such, in particular not a viable Jewish state in Palestine. What they supported for a brief was the evactuation and marginalization of the Jews to a German colony, far away, wrestled from the French, where Jews could be tightly controlles and would be decimated anyway: Madagascar.

Anyways, I am still inclined to believe that gassings (or burning Jews) did not occur. To clarify, I'm talking gas chambers and not just some diesel trucks.

Are you inclined to believe that mass shootings did occur, that gassing by diesel fumes did occur, and that death rates in ghettos and Jewish concentration camps exceeded normal war time death rates by large factors of 10 or more?
Are you therefore inclined to believe that mass murder of Jews did, in fact, occur in a planned and systematic manner?

These pictures also do not prove that all deaths were intentional either no matter how hard you try to insinuate.

Do they prove that many deaths were intentional? Would there be a major difference between "all" and "many"?

 

[Saggy]

The Nazis did everything they could to prevent deaths in the camps. See the image below of a sign at Auschwitz which reads 'One Louse, Your Death' -

The Nazis fumigated building and clothes, heads were shaved, showers were frequent, all with the purpose of killing lice and preventing typhus. The clothes were fumigated using Zyklon in closed rooms using special machinery from DeGesch, shown below ...

The Zionists twisted these public health measures taken by the Nazis into a diabolical schemes for killing Jews, this phantasmagoria is the basis of the holohoax.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The Nazis did everything they could to prevent deaths in the camps.

 

[kageki]

It isn't sidestepped. It just isn't the topic of this thread.



Were they right? Do you believe this to be true also?
ETA: To the extent that among the philosophers of Bolshevism we find folks like Friedrich Engels, a full-blooded Prussian, or Lenin, who was as much of German as of Jewish descent, would you agree that Hitler should also have rounded up all Germans? /ETA



Were all the Jewish children, the Jewish peasants of Poland and the Ukrain, the Jewish elderly people, the Jewish women enemies of the state?



Did starvation and epidemics run rampant in the US camps? Had Roosevelt or anybody else declared that revenge would be excated on the Japanese by exterminating them entirely from the continent, like Hitler declared with regard to the Jews of Europe in the Reichstag on january 30th 1939 - before the war even broke out?



They did not support Zionism as such, in particular not a viable Jewish state in Palestine. What they supported for a brief was the evactuation and marginalization of the Jews to a German colony, far away, wrestled from the French, where Jews could be tightly controlles and would be decimated anyway: Madagascar.



Are you inclined to believe that mass shootings did occur, that gassing by diesel fumes did occur, and that death rates in ghettos and Jewish concentration camps exceeded normal war time death rates by large factors of 10 or more?
Are you therefore inclined to believe that mass murder of Jews did, in fact, occur in a planned and systematic manner?



Do they prove that many deaths were intentional? Would there be a major difference between "all" and "many"?

Hitler also said this:

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/i/irving-david/ausrotten/

September, 1942:

...if Jewry should plot another world war in order to exterminate the Aryan peoples in Europe, it would not be the Aryan people which would be exterminated but Jewry...

Does that mean the Jews were planning to "exterminate" the Germans? Not necessarily. I would think Hitler just had a thing for embellishment. I don't recall anything to indicate that Madgascar was meant to be their demise. That also seems like embellishment.

I do believe there probably were some things planned to an extent similar to the pogroms that occurred in tsarist Russia. Gas chambers? Probably not.

War didn't occur on US soil and they also weren't losing either. Very different circumstances.

Were all the Japanese enemies of the state? What if Jews had a country at the time that a war could be declared on?

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Does that mean the Jews were planning to "exterminate" the Germans? Not necessarily.

You take ANYTHING ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ says on face value? Ok, you're pegged.

I love the slander of the "not necessarily", btw. It weasels in the insane supposition that the Jew WERE planning to "exterminate" the Aryans. You have this down pat.

 

[Oystein]

Hitler also said this:



Does that mean the Jews were planning to "exterminate" the Germans? Not necessarily. I would think Hitler just had a thing for embellishment. I don't recall anything to indicate that Madgascar was meant to be their demise. That also seems like embellishment.

I do believe there probably were some things planned to an extent similar to the pogroms that occurred in tsarist Russia. Gas chambers? Probably not.

War didn't occur on US soil and they also weren't losing either. Very different circumstances.

Were all the Japanese enemies of the state? What if Jews had a country at the time that a war could be declared on?

Several Strawmen:
1. Nobody argues that any pogroms in tsarist Russia were not serious crimes against humanity. Do you agree then that both the Russian pogroms and the German measures against Jews constituted serious crimes against humanity? I do.
2. Nobody argues that the internemt of Japanese-Americans was legal or justified. Nobody argues that any hypothetical internment of any entire ethnic group by a hypothetical Jewish state would have been legal or justified. Do you agree then that the internment of Japanese-Americancs and the internment of Jews (and Sinti, Roma, political prisoners, imbeciles...) was criminal? I do.
3. Nobody claims that Hitler was waiting for a scheme by Jews to exterminate Aryans. However we do claim that he was waiting for an excuse to exterminate Jews. This is evidenced by many measures taken against Jews starting in 1933 and not ending in 1939 that deprived them of their civil rights, livelihood and dignity. No such measures by any Jewish body or leader against Aryans is known to history. Do you agree then that all the measures against Jews, starting from their very definition, to restrictions on employment, business activities, marriage, etc., to discrimination in topics like food rations and housing during the war, to ghettoisation and concentration, were simply despicable?


I noticed you dodged important questions, which I will repeat. Please be so polite as to consider an answer:

1. Were the Nazis right to assume that Bolshevism was a tool in the hands of the Jewry? Do you believe this to be true also?

2. Were all the Jewish children, the Jewish peasants of Poland and the Ukraine, the Jewish elderly people, the Jewish women enemies of the state?

3. Are you inclined to believe that mass shootings did occur, that gassing by diesel fumes did occur, and that death rates in ghettos and Jewish concentration camps exceeded normal war time death rates by large factors of 10 or more?
Are you therefore inclined to believe that mass murder of Jews did, in fact, occur in a planned and systematic manner?

4. Do the sources linked in the OP prove that many (as opposed to all) deaths there were intentional? Would there be a major difference between "all" and "many"?

 

[Oystein]

Hitler also said this:

Does that mean the Jews were planning to "exterminate" the Germans? Not necessarily. I would think Hitler just had a thing for embellishment...

No. It can't mean that, as it wasn't any Jewish leader making that speach or any embellishments. It was Hitler.

It only means that Hitler believed, or wanted his audience to believe, that "the Jews" (who would that be, anyway?) were scheming against the German race.
Do you believe he was right?

 

[kageki]

You take ANYTHING ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ says on face value? Ok, you're pegged.

I love the slander of the "not necessarily", btw. It weasels in the insane supposition that the Jew WERE planning to "exterminate" the Aryans. You have this down pat.

Well ok that clears it up. Hitler was just making it all up. That was easy.

Slander?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany_Must_Perish!

BTW, gas chambers are central to holocaust denial. If none of you understand this then you exhibit no understanding of it and don't even qualify to discuss it. Off course gas chambers are relevant when the title of this thread addresses holocaust deniers.

So what do these pictures prove again?

 

[Oystein]

The Nazis did everything they could to prevent deaths in the camps. See the image below of a sign at Auschwitz which reads 'One Louse, Your Death' - ...

You again failed to address the OP and any questions addressed at you.

 

[kageki]

Several Strawmen:
1. Nobody argues that any pogroms in tsarist Russia were not serious crimes against humanity. Do you agree then that both the Russian pogroms and the German measures against Jews constituted serious crimes against humanity? I do.
2. Nobody argues that the internemt of Japanese-Americans was legal or justified. Nobody argues that any hypothetical internment of any entire ethnic group by a hypothetical Jewish state would have been legal or justified. Do you agree then that the internment of Japanese-Americancs and the internment of Jews (and Sinti, Roma, political prisoners, imbeciles...) was criminal? I do.
3. Nobody claims that Hitler was waiting for a scheme by Jews to exterminate Aryans. However we do claim that he was waiting for an excuse to exterminate Jews. This is evidenced by many measures taken against Jews starting in 1933 and not ending in 1939 that deprived them of their civil rights, livelihood and dignity. No such measures by any Jewish body or leader against Aryans is known to history. Do you agree then that all the measures against Jews, starting from their very definition, to restrictions on employment, business activities, marriage, etc., to discrimination in topics like food rations and housing during the war, to ghettoisation and concentration, were simply despicable?


I noticed you dodged important questions, which I will repeat. Please be so polite as to consider an answer:

1. Were the Nazis right to assume that Bolshevism was a tool in the hands of the Jewry? Do you believe this to be true also?

2. Were all the Jewish children, the Jewish peasants of Poland and the Ukraine, the Jewish elderly people, the Jewish women enemies of the state?

3. Are you inclined to believe that mass shootings did occur, that gassing by diesel fumes did occur, and that death rates in ghettos and Jewish concentration camps exceeded normal war time death rates by large factors of 10 or more?
Are you therefore inclined to believe that mass murder of Jews did, in fact, occur in a planned and systematic manner?

4. Do the sources linked in the OP prove that many (as opposed to all) deaths there were intentional? Would there be a major difference between "all" and "many"?

I don't find your questions to be relevant. That's why I didn't answer them on a point by point basis.

What's even the point you are making now? Just that the Germans committed crimes like virtually anyone during war?

I believe Hitler makes it clear his actions are a response whether right or wrong if you are implying that Hitler just wanted to exterminate all Jews spontaneously for no reason. I don't really see it any different from two countries fighting each other. Jews didn't have a country to make such actions. Well until they made Israel. Hitler's policies were similar to tsarist Russia and for similar reasons.

 

[Oystein]

Well ok that clears it up. Hitler was just making it all up. That was easy.

Cool. You got it!

Slander?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany_Must_Perish!

Who the hell is Theodore N. Kaufman? Is he relevant? A leader of anything or anyone? I could write a book "America must perish!" - would that justify the anihilation of Germany by the USA, just because I, the delusional author of a self-published vanity diatribe, am German? Do you actually argue that way? Would it not make a slight difference if I was Federal Chancellor, instead of just someone somewhere?

However if Germany had in fact perished, that this

BTW, gas chambers are central to holocaust denial. If none of you understand this then you exhibit no understanding of it and don't even qualify to discuss it. Off course gas chambers are relevant when the title of this thread addresses holocaust deniers.

The term "Holocaust denier" in the thread title does not denote the topic of the thread, but the addressees of the thread. It is addressed to holocaust deniers (or gas chamber deniers, if you like) such as you or Saggy.
It is NOT, however, an invitation to discuss anything else but the OP.

So what do these pictures prove again?

Right. That is the question asked in the OP, and you, as a holocaust denier, are asked to explain what the pictures show. How come there are so many people so nearly dead in the concentration camps? Did you watch the movie? Between 28:30 and 31:30, you see ordinary civilians from nearby Weimar paraded through the Buchenwald camp. Compare their bodies (relatively well-nourished despite Germany's ill luck in war the past 2 years) with those of the inmates - dead or alive. How come so many inmates were so severely starved? Why were the heaps of corpses so large they could not even burn them fast enough befor the end of the war? This needs an explanation. Lack of food can't be the reason, for there was obviously plenty enough to be had for the general population.

 

[switchpoint]

The Zionists twisted these public health measures taken by the Nazis into a diabolical schemes for killing Jews, this phantasmagoria is the basis of the holohoax.

Wow. People like you really do exist, huh? That's amazing. So now the Nazi death camps were actually public health centers. Unfreakingbelievable.

 

[Oystein]

I don't find your questions to be relevant. That's why I didn't answer them on a point by point basis.

That is strange. I asked them to elaborate on claims that you made and hence deemed relevant enough. You posted some excuses for the Nazis. I think it is very relevant if the excuses made by the Nazis were even factually correct. Was Bolshevism a Jewish plot? Yes or no? If no, what kind of an excuse is this? You seem to be arguing there was no holocaust because you don't believe Zyklon B was used to gas people. However, gassing by Zyklon B was only part of the holocaust. You seem to think the issue of Zyklon-B-gassing to be relevant - so how can the gassing by diesel fumes or the mass shootings or the deliberate invrease of death rates not be relevant? Those killed millions, too!

What's even the point you are making now? Just that the Germans committed crimes like virtually anyone during war?

Ok, so you admit the Germans commited crimes against the Jews?
You admit that the OP shows the results of crimes against Germans, Jews and POWs? Would be nice if you could say so outright.

"Crimes like virtually anyone during war?" Uhm, well, after you have admitted to the criminality of the concentration camps, and the ghettos, and the Einsatzgruppen, we can then maybe discuss whether virtually anyone commited crimes like these. Or maybe not, for it is a silly game to compare atrocities.

I believe Hitler makes it clear his actions are a response whether right or wrong if you are implying that Hitler just wanted to exterminate all Jews spontaneously for no reason. I don't really see it any different from two countries fighting each other. Jews didn't have a country to make such actions. Well until they made Israel. Hitler's policies were similar to tsarist Russia and for similar reasons.

It seems to me that there is a major difference between a response to some true threat and a response to one's personal delusion. Don't you think?