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Holocaust Denial.

Do folks here deny that separate from the veracity of the Holocaust, it's used to manufacture heirarchy in today's society. The sense I get is that the primary purpose for promotion of the Holocaust narrative is to paint the anglosphere heroically.

The secondary or tertiary purpose might be to give greater weight to the righteous struggle of the victors, but the primary rationale for remembering the Holocaust is to warn ourselves if we see it happening again in any form.
Whether it's anti-Jewish or anti-semitic matters not. Pol Pot's political exterminations or Milosovic's ethnic cleansing are equally evil.

And as Brainache asked, where do we draw the line in the sand? Are we going to start giving credence to the Ku Klux Klan next because some blacks have co-opted the issue of slavery towards their own ends?

As I said, if it's Holocaust deniers, NAMBLA, The American Nazi Party, The Klan, or let's throw in Islamic extremists and abortion-clinic bombers..... Fight them with whatever tools you have. If that includes ridiculing them and demonizing them to make it clear that they're representative of the lunatic fringe, then so be it. As I said, you're being far too generous in terming Holocaust deniers as merely kooks or eccentrics.
 
genocides

As Norman Finklestein, author of the Holocaust Industry, quotes his Jewish "holocaust survivor" mother as saying, "If there are all these survivors who did Hitler kill?"

We have more Holocaust survivors collecting money from Germany, than Jews who existed in Europe during world war two.

Professor of History at Princeton, Aron Mayer, a Jew himself, argues that most of the Jews who died in Europe during world war two, died of Typhus.

The major spokesperson for the holocaust is "survivor" Elie Weisel, who wrote Night. In Night, Weisel never mentions gas chambers. This is odd, since Weisel claims to have been at Auschwitz. Elie's method of genocide was burning in open ditches. This is actually where the term "Holocaust" arose, which means burnt offerings. Elie apparently spread one of the earlier war propagandas going around about burning Jews. He didn't get to correct his novel, when the gas chamber stories were fabricated.

One of the main reasons for doubting the Holocaust is the zealous nature of the holocaust promoters, they enact laws making it a prison term for denying the Holocaust, in Europe, Austria, France, Germany, and in Canada. You have to wonder about the religious zeal that drives those who promote the Holocaust, are they mentally ill? deranged psychos? what is the mental disease that causes people to imprison those who disagree with them? We're now in an age of thought control and thought police.

But it only applies to the Jewish Holocaust. Elie Weisel wouldn't share a stage with Armenians who wanted to remember the Turkish genocide of Armenians. Only the Jewish Holocaust is worth remembering, to Elie.

Elie's Night book had another strange passage. In the last chapter, Elie says the German doctors treated his leg, but he was still recovering. Elie and his father had a choice, either wait in Auschwitz as the Russians approached and took over, or go with the Germans westward to another camp. Elie and his father chose to go with the Germans, rather than allow the Russians to take control of them. They preferred the Germans (the Germans who supposedly were executing and burning Jews every day). How was it Elie and his father escaped the executions and burnings? Elie tells us. You see, by accident, as the Germans marched thousands of Jews to their death, they would run out of time, and Elie and his father would be last in line, and be saved, each day. Some put Elie's novel in the fiction section.

Some holocaust "survivors" such as the authors of Painted Bird and Fragments, used in schools and colleges in America, were written by pretenders, who were never in any Germany concentration camp or even Jewish. Yet American schools made them required reading.

Is it anyone wonder people today in America continue to believe in the "Holocaust"? We indoctrinate well in America.

There was a real holocaust in Europe at the end of world war two. An Eye For Eye by Sacks, shows Jews exterminating Germans in Poland, after the war ended. General Eisenhower hated Germans. He deported Germans to Russia to certain death. Another 2 million Germans died in Eisenhower's POW camps, where Eisenhower had orders to shoot any German woman or child who tried to provide food to German POWs. See Other Losses by James Baque.

The fake Jewish holocaust is used not only to justify Israeli terrorism against Palestinians and to justify the Israel nation and taking of land from Arabs, but it diverts attention from the real Holocaust, the murder of millions of Germans, by Russia, America, Eisenhower and Jews. The post war Jewish refugee camps were terrorist training centers for Begin's Irgun and Jewish terrorist groups, who blew up, bombed and murdered civilians at the King David Hotel.

Franklin Roosevelt hated Germans. Truman implemented the Morgenthau Plan. They claim they didn't, but they just gave it a new name. The Morgenthau Plan was to starve Germany. Roosevelt and Churchill had firebombed Dresden and Germany civilians. It was terrorism, beyond the scope of civilized warfare. When Germany was ready to surrender, Roosevelt did his best to make the war last as long as possible, by publicizing the Morgenthau Plan, so Germany would keep fighting, so the Allies could kill more Germans.

What was the pretext for this war? Poland? We gave Poland away to Russia at the end of the war. America didn't care about Jews. Roosevelt turned the St. Louis away with a thousand Jews back to Europe.

The Holocaust was just war propaganda. We did the same thing in World War One, making up stories about German soldiers knifing Belgian babies.

Rudolf Hess risked his life for peace, flying to Britain. We charged Hess as a war criminal. The real war criminals are Franklin Roosevelt, Dwight Eisenhower, Harry Truman, Winston Churchill, Josef Stalin, Menachem Begin. Instead of German leaders, they should have executed Allied leaders.

Even Begin didn't consider the Nazis to be a threat. Adolf Hitler wanted a Jewish homeland. The British didn't. Begin offered to have his Irgun join with the Nazis to fight Britain. The Nazis turned Begin down.

History is written by the victors. It's court history, filled with myths of war propaganda. Real Skeptics are revisionists. Robots who follow their countries fake history are incapbable of thinking.
 
Sacks was Jewish

Sacks wrote Eye for An Eye. Professor Deborah L. of the Holocaust Studies Department, calls Sacks worse than a Holocaust Denier. Sacks asked her why she said that. Professor Deborah L. said she didn't have time to answer, she was late for a faculty meeting.

Professor Deborah L. helped send Historian David Irving to prison in Austria, after a judgment against him in Britain.

Sacks wrote of the Jews killing Germans in Poland, as the war ended. Sacks is Jewish. Sacks wonders why no Jew ever mentions this truth.

The real holocaust was against the Germans. More Germans died in World War II, about 5 million in the war, and another 5 million after the war. The Allies and Jews wanted to exterminate Germans, that was the purpose of the Morgenthau Plan. Franklin Roosevelt's son in the military, asked Franklin Roosevelt, "Do you plan to starve Germany?" Roosevelt answered, "Why not." Roosevelt even adopted Hemmingway's line, that we should castrate German males, so Germany can't reproduce.

Franklin Roosevelt met with Stalin and told Stalin that the Allies should adopt Stalin's plan to execute summarily 50,000 German leaders. Stalin told Roosevelt that Stalin had just been joking. Roosevelt, however, was serious.

Fortunately, Roosevelt died. Truman however, was as blood thirsty, dropping A-bombs on Japan, acts of terror never before seen in history, with as many civilians murdered as the Allied bombing of Dresden.

Hitler had offered to remove civilians as targets during the war. Churchill and Roosevelt wouldn't agree. The American, British, Russian and Jewish stategy included terrorism and extermination of Germans. That's the real purpose of fake stories of a Jewish holocaust, to make people forget and ignore the real genocide against Germans.

Even Jewish author Sacks, knows and recognizes that Jews murdered Germans.
 
We have more Holocaust survivors collecting money from Germany, than Jews who existed in Europe during world war two.

Is that mathematically possible? I think you may diminish the arguments of folks like Finkelstein by mixing lines like this in with their points.
 
Nobel Laureate, Jewish Eli Weisel, has written that every Jew should reserve a hatred for Germans.

The real genocide, the real hatred is the Jewish treatment of Germans. Americans are like lap dogs eating up whatever fake Jewish stories are told, feeding the Jewish hatred. As Allan Dershowitz says, Jews don't forgive. Christian Germans do. Jews committed genocide against Germans. Germans didn't commit genocide against Jews. That's revisionist history. Americans prefer myths.
 
Most of the money goes, as Finkelstein points out, to Jewish organizations promoting the Holocaust for money, for profit. The Jewish organizations don't even care about the "survivors" except as a way to make money
 
What's the deniers explaination for the serial numbers on survivors?
 
America had concentration camps for Japanese and Germans. Germans were interned in North Dakota and Texas. Governor Earl Warren interned Japanese. America bombed Nagasaki and Hiroshima. America helped Britain fire bomb every German cities' civilian population.

And America erects monuments and holocaust studies, as if it cared. The Jewish holocaust is a diversion.

If Roosevelt tricked an isolationist America into a world war, by not telling Kimmel and Short about the Japanese, think what George Bush gets away with in the Mideast. The lesson is the same. Roosevelt had to claim the military was negligent, that Kimmel and Short were derelict. Bush can't even explain why our military never responded when it was clear planes were off route and headed to the Twin Towers.

Roosevelt used the Japanese to go to war with Germany. Bush used the Twin Towers to go to war with Saddam. Leaders arrange an attack, so they can go to war. It seems to work, so they keep doing it.
 
About the tattoos...

Oooh! Oooh! I know!!!

They were each paid $100 by some jewish organization as part of the conspiracy.

Yeah, that's it!!
 
America had concentration camps for Japanese and Germans. Germans were interned in North Dakota and Texas. Governor Earl Warren interned Japanese. America bombed Nagasaki and Hiroshima. America helped Britain fire bomb every German cities' civilian population.

And America erects monuments and holocaust studies, as if it cared. The Jewish holocaust is a diversion.

If Roosevelt tricked an isolationist America into a world war, by not telling Kimmel and Short about the Japanese, think what George Bush gets away with in the Mideast. The lesson is the same. Roosevelt had to claim the military was negligent, that Kimmel and Short were derelict. Bush can't even explain why our military never responded when it was clear planes were off route and headed to the Twin Towers.

Roosevelt used the Japanese to go to war with Germany. Bush used the Twin Towers to go to war with Saddam. Leaders arrange an attack, so they can go to war. It seems to work, so they keep doing it.

If this is true "Germans were interned in North Dakota and Texas" it amounts to secret history. I'll google it.
 
Okay, Eric. What is your problem with history and your agenda to awake this thread?
 
As Norman Finklestein, author of the Holocaust Industry, quotes his Jewish "holocaust survivor" mother as saying, "If there are all these survivors who did Hitler kill?"

Source?

We have more Holocaust survivors collecting money from Germany, than Jews who existed in Europe during world war two.

Source?

Professor of History at Princeton, Aron Mayer, a Jew himself, argues that most of the Jews who died in Europe during world war two, died of Typhus.

Source?

The major spokesperson for the holocaust is "survivor" Elie Weisel, who wrote Night. In Night, Weisel never mentions gas chambers. This is odd, since Weisel claims to have been at Auschwitz. Elie's method of genocide was burning in open ditches. This is actually where the term "Holocaust" arose, which means burnt offerings. Elie apparently spread one of the earlier war propagandas going around about burning Jews. He didn't get to correct his novel, when the gas chamber stories were fabricated.

Source?

One of the main reasons for doubting the Holocaust is the zealous nature of the holocaust promoters, they enact laws making it a prison term for denying the Holocaust, in Europe, Austria, France, Germany, and in Canada. You have to wonder about the religious zeal that drives those who promote the Holocaust, are they mentally ill? deranged psychos? what is the mental disease that causes people to imprison those who disagree with them? We're now in an age of thought control and thought police.

No, the holocaust happened and denial is a method of promoting the far right so they can carry out similar genocidal acts. Holocaust denial is a lie against history and the victims this is why it is banned the countries where the history is particularly important. It seems quite reasonable to me and even if it wasn't reasonable it wouldn't indicate that the holocaust didn't happen. Speculation about motive is not evidence.

Can you source the laws for Europe, France and Canada please? I am not familiar with those. Certainly holocaust denial is not an offence in the UK, which is in Europe.

But it only applies to the Jewish Holocaust. Elie Weisel wouldn't share a stage with Armenians who wanted to remember the Turkish genocide of Armenians. Only the Jewish Holocaust is worth remembering, to Elie.

Source? And how is this relevant to whether the holocaust happened or not?

Elie's Night book had another strange passage. In the last chapter, Elie says the German doctors treated his leg, but he was still recovering. Elie and his father had a choice, either wait in Auschwitz as the Russians approached and took over, or go with the Germans westward to another camp. Elie and his father chose to go with the Germans, rather than allow the Russians to take control of them. They preferred the Germans (the Germans who supposedly were executing and burning Jews every day). How was it Elie and his father escaped the executions and burnings? Elie tells us. You see, by accident, as the Germans marched thousands of Jews to their death, they would run out of time, and Elie and his father would be last in line, and be saved, each day. Some put Elie's novel in the fiction section.

Can you link to the passage itself rather than your version of it?

If this really disproves the Holocaust why did he include it?

I think there is probably another explanation.

Some holocaust "survivors" such as the authors of Painted Bird and Fragments, used in schools and colleges in America, were written by pretenders, who were never in any Germany concentration camp or even Jewish. Yet American schools made them required reading.

Source?

Is it anyone wonder people today in America continue to believe in the "Holocaust"? We indoctrinate well in America.

I disagree. Do you have any evidence for this assertion?

There was a real holocaust in Europe at the end of world war two. An Eye For Eye by Sacks, shows Jews exterminating Germans in Poland, after the war ended.

Please source this book correctly. How reliable are its sources? What are the numbers involved?

General Eisenhower hated Germans. He deported Germans to Russia to certain death. Another 2 million Germans died in Eisenhower's POW camps, where Eisenhower had orders to shoot any German woman or child who tried to provide food to German POWs. See Other Losses by James Baque.

More details of this book please, what concrete evidence does it produce? What relevance does Eisenhower's attitude and actions have to the actuality of the holocaust?

Let me guessm you think Eisenhower killed Patton as well?

The fake Jewish holocaust is used not only to justify Israeli terrorism against Palestinians and to justify the Israel nation and taking of land from Arabs, but it diverts attention from the real Holocaust, the murder of millions of Germans, by Russia, America, Eisenhower and Jews. The post war Jewish refugee camps were terrorist training centers for Begin's Irgun and Jewish terrorist groups, who blew up, bombed and murdered civilians at the King David Hotel.

Jewish terrorist groups acted against Britain, once the state of Israel had been recognised there was no more terror. Much of the land that became Israel was purchased during the initial period of settlement. My understanding is that further land was abandoned by Arabs (there are still Arabs living in Israel who didn't flee - so they weren't forced out). The only land that was taken by force was the occupied territories - and that was in a war that Israel didn't start.

Evidence of German deaths that result from the war? Otherwise, you can't call it murder or genocide.

Subsequent actions of Israel or any other country do not disprove the holocaust.

Franklin Roosevelt hated Germans. Truman implemented the Morgenthau Plan. They claim they didn't, but they just gave it a new name. The Morgenthau Plan was to starve Germany. Roosevelt and Churchill had firebombed Dresden and Germany civilians. It was terrorism, beyond the scope of civilized warfare. When Germany was ready to surrender, Roosevelt did his best to make the war last as long as possible, by publicizing the Morgenthau Plan, so Germany would keep fighting, so the Allies could kill more Germans.

Any evidence for this nonsense?

What was the pretext for this war? Poland? We gave Poland away to Russia at the end of the war. America didn't care about Jews. Roosevelt turned the St. Louis away with a thousand Jews back to Europe.

The Holocaust was just war propaganda. We did the same thing in World War One, making up stories about German soldiers knifing Belgian babies.

Britain declared war because of the invasion of Poland. Russia because it was invaded by German. The USA because of Pearl Harbor. The holocaust had no bearing on these decisions and was not widely known about until after the war was over.

Rudolf Hess risked his life for peace, flying to Britain. We charged Hess as a war criminal. The real war criminals are Franklin Roosevelt, Dwight Eisenhower, Harry Truman, Winston Churchill, Josef Stalin, Menachem Begin. Instead of German leaders, they should have executed Allied leaders.

Evidence? Sources?

Even Begin didn't consider the Nazis to be a threat. Adolf Hitler wanted a Jewish homeland. The British didn't. Begin offered to have his Irgun join with the Nazis to fight Britain. The Nazis turned Begin down.

Evidence? Sources?

History is written by the victors. It's court history, filled with myths of war propaganda. Real Skeptics are revisionists. Robots who follow their countries fake history are incapbable of thinking.

Whereas what you have is unmitigated unsourced garbage from beginning to end. You are the robot, unthinkingly following neo-nazi anti-semetic nonsense.
 
Source?

Source?

Source?

Source?

No, the holocaust happened and denial is a method of promoting the far right so they can carry out similar genocidal acts. Holocaust denial is a lie against history and the victims this is why it is banned the countries where the history is particularly important. It seems quite reasonable to me and even if it wasn't reasonable it wouldn't indicate that the holocaust didn't happen. Speculation about motive is not evidence.

Can you source the laws for Europe, France and Canada please? I am not familiar with those. Certainly holocaust denial is not an offence in the UK, which is in Europe.

Source? And how is this relevant to whether the holocaust happened or not?

Can you link to the passage itself rather than your version of it?

If this really disproves the Holocaust why did he include it?

I think there is probably another explanation.

Source?

I disagree. Do you have any evidence for this assertion?

Please source this book correctly. How reliable are its sources? What are the numbers involved?

More details of this book please, what concrete evidence does it produce? What relevance does Eisenhower's attitude and actions have to the actuality of the holocaust?

Let me guessm you think Eisenhower killed Patton as well?

Jewish terrorist groups acted against Britain, once the state of Israel had been recognised there was no more terror. Much of the land that became Israel was purchased during the initial period of settlement. My understanding is that further land was abandoned by Arabs (there are still Arabs living in Israel who didn't flee - so they weren't forced out). The only land that was taken by force was the occupied territories - and that was in a war that Israel didn't start.

Evidence of German deaths that result from the war? Otherwise, you can't call it murder or genocide.

Subsequent actions of Israel or any other country do not disprove the holocaust.

Any evidence for this nonsense?

Britain declared war because of the invasion of Poland. Russia because it was invaded by German. The USA because of Pearl Harbor. The holocaust had no bearing on these decisions and was not widely known about until after the war was over.

Evidence? Sources?

Evidence? Sources?

Whereas what you have is unmitigated unsourced garbage from beginning to end. You are the robot, unthinkingly following neo-nazi anti-semetic nonsense.


Actually, on second thoughts, I'm not especially interested in your reply to all this. The world gets on fine without seeing your lies as truth. Your small band of fellow believers has no influence on anything.

I'm happy to continue to support the rememberance of the Holocaust and history as it is generally taught at the moment.
 
Japanese were interned because they could be identified, because they LOOKED different. It was horribly, utterly wrong, and I'm ashamed of my government for it. When the Japanese were permitted to fight, in a segregated unit, that unit won more medals than any other in WWII. Almost 18,000 if I recall, with a strength of 8,000. Two-plus combat decorations PER MAN, on average.

America, as a nation, owes the Japanese internees and their families compensation for this crime, if it hasn't been paid already. I know an apology was given.

I don't know if Germans were interned in the US, but if so an apology and compensation would be due them, as well.

But to compare these actions, despicable as they were, to the Holocaust... to borrow a phrase from the physics world, that isn't even wrong. It doesn't even rise to the level of wrong.
 
Some holocaust "survivors" such as the authors of Painted Bird and Fragments, used in schools and colleges in America, were written by pretenders, who were never in any Germany concentration camp or even Jewish. Yet American schools made them required reading.

Is it anyone wonder people today in America continue to believe in the "Holocaust"? We indoctrinate well in America.

I teach high school history in NYC, where we have lots and lots of Jews (no, before you ask, I'm not Jewish). So you're saying myself, my colleagues, my professors and every other history educator I've encountered is envolved in a conserted "pro-Jew" brainwashing program?

Well I've got news for you Skepticism, unlike you, I think for myself.

I hope it really, really bothers you that I have educated thousands and thousands of kids regarding the FACT that the Holocaust indeed did happen and all you have is your little, sad, hateful Internet life.
 
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Okay, Eric. What is your problem with history and your agenda to awake this thread?

The same problem that all serious Holocaust Deniers have: that the weight of mountains of historical facts crush any chance for a revival of their favorite ideology: national socialism. Without the Holocaust to tarnish the image for Hitler et al, all that remains is stuff they can "spin" or downplay or whatever, to the point where the Nazis will look like guys who have just had bad press from the guys who defeated them.


FWIW, I empathically disagree with anybody who considers Holocaust Denial a free speech issue. Allowing Holocaust Denial (or not) has nothing to do with free speech.

The reason for this is that, in order for the Holocaust to have been faked, countless people (the survivors of the supposedly-not-death-camps, for one) would have had to be "in on it". They, to be precise, have had to willingly and knowingly participate in a massive conspiracy aimed at falsely accusing a large number of people of the most horrible crimes.
In any judicial systems I have heard of, falsely accusing people of crimes in a context where this leads to the prosecution of said crime is, in itself, a crime; I am not sure but I assume that "libel" is the correct term for it.
It is obvious, therefore, that Holocaust Deniers willingly and knowingly (because nobody can be *that* dumb not to see they´re pulling that stuff out of their asses like that) accuse Europe´s surviving jews, among others, of libel on a truly massive scale despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Which, of course, is itself a massive case of libel.

And libel, as a crime, is not subject to the protection of free speech. Therefore I can see no ethical or legal problem with sueing the ****ing pants off Holocaust Deniers and/or letting them rot in prison for as long as it takes to make them ******** on the death and suffering of so many people.
 
Nobel Laureate, Jewish Eli Weisel, has written that every Jew should reserve a hatred for Germans.

The real genocide, the real hatred is the Jewish treatment of Germans. Americans are like lap dogs eating up whatever fake Jewish stories are told, feeding the Jewish hatred. As Allan Dershowitz says, Jews don't forgive. Christian Germans do. Jews committed genocide against Germans. Germans didn't commit genocide against Jews. That's revisionist history. Americans prefer myths.

Are you, by any change, anti-semitic? Also, just because this forum uses red, white and black, doesn't mean it favors neo-nazi's and other a-hole groups.
 
I empathically disagree with anybody who considers Holocaust Denial a free speech issue. Allowing Holocaust Denial (or not) has nothing to do with free speech.

I agree. It's kind of like debating if 2+2 really does equal 4.
 

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