• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Holocaust Denial.

Well, skepticism, are you going to post further, and answer the questions and comments directed at you, or are you going to run off like the coward, both intellectual and physical, that we think you are?

Hmmm?
 
Where did you get this crap from? The Storm Front website?

Cursory investigation reveals that holocaust deniers either:
A. Have a racist axe to grind.
B. Haven't done much homework.
C. Are morons.

(more than one may apply)

-Squish
 
Elizabeth I said:
There were German POW camps in south Texas. Why they shipped Germans from Europe to Texas to hold them is beyond me, but there it is.

Source: http://ameddregiment.amedd.army.mil/fshmuse/pow.htm
Click to expand...

There were numerous POW camps in the USA. What Skeptischism is alluding to was the internment of German-Americans, which might be the only true thing in his repulsive posts. But as Binglybert pointed out, the internment of six to ten thousand aliens (they didn't intern German-American citizens) is hardly comparable to the attempted genocide of the undesirable populations of western and central Europe.
 
EGarrett said:
How does this work? What mechanism do they use to explain the videos of the dead bodies and what reason do they give for Jewish people wanting to fake the Holocaust?
Click to expand...


As with Dazed, in an effort to explain the mechanism by which they deny it, here are some other factors:

There is always atrocity propaganda in war. Some of the holocaust claims are indeed false, and deniers will cherry pick these to deny or deflate the entire event.

Example:

Prior to liberation, Allied forces dropped pamphlets across Europe telling civilians that the Germans were gassing Jews in concentration camps. This was of course before they knew if this was true or not - it was an invented piece of propaganda.

When the Holocaust was uncovered, it was discovered that the Nazis HAD gassed Jews, however they hadn't systematically used them in German concentration camps (as we know, the worst camps weren't in Germany anyway).

From this comes the myth that noone was ever gassed, which is false.

Another "urban myth" of the holocaust is lampshades made from human skin. "Evidence" was presented at the trials and found to not be human skin.

In any horrific event of this scale, occuring over many years, such stories will be born. some will be entirely fiction, some will be exaggerated. They do not deny the event, they just affect the details.

Another is eye witness reports. Some victims reported enormous gas chambers the size of many football fields, crammed with hundreds of people at a time.

No such buildings existed. Does that mean the gassings didn't take place? Of course not. Estimated the size of buildings and crowds is phenomenally difficult. Even more so given the situation these survivors were in.

Deniers will point to any and all discrepencies in various accounts and use them to disprove the ENTIRE event. It's the precise reverse of what we see in the Mineta testimony arguments - they cannot fathom that people recall details incorrectly to events that are real. Either the details must also be real, or the event itself must not be real.

That, and, IMHO, some groups and individuals who are Jews have grossly misused the Holocaust emotional card to further their own interests, which doesn't help things.

-Gumboot
 
EGarrett said:
How does this work? What mechanism do they use to explain the videos of the dead bodies and what reason do they give for Jewish people wanting to fake the Holocaust?
Click to expand...


whenever ive witnessed an argument of this sort it goes like this:

poster1: it didnt happen

everyone posts proof

poster1: not THAT many people died, *long explanation with no facts*

everyone posts proof again and logical arguments against the numbers being inflated to an extreme degree.

poster1: well all that stuff about people being gassed in showers is BS!

and so on. None of the deniers answers for anything, they just keep on coming up with whacky stuff to be debunked. I can see how it would be easier to believe things that bad didnt happen/were exaggerated. The didnt happen/was exaggerated transition happens a lot, most of the time people dont know what the hell they are talking about and just repeat what they have heard on stormfront.
 
It's also interesting that holocaust deniers also seem to be 911 woowoos (though not all 911 woowoos are holocaust deniers).

We are constantly reminded by woowoos that governments can be evil and are not to be trusted, and yet the holocaust denier would have us believe that the nazi government is improperly maligned over the holocaust.

Which just leaves us with a common theme of anti-semitism.
 
Dave1001 said:
That hardly makes the nazi government that perpetuated the holocaust a western democracy.

Although democracies have certainly committed genocides. For example, the United States and indigenous Americans.
Click to expand...

And even that wasn't a deliberate extermination such as the Nazis wanted to do to the Jews and the Gypsies. Most indians who died were killed by infectious diseases to which they had no immunities, not by American brute force. Adding up all the official massacres such as Wounded Knee and the Washita River, the numbers are well below genocide levels even if quadrupled. What happened to the Californian indians during the Gold Rush was a bit more of a genocidal slaughter (100,000 or so), however this wasn't official - mainly it was settlers who committed the murders.

Since genocide means to eradicate a culture, what happened to the American indians counts because there was a systematic effort to Christianize them and destroy their way of life (complete with anti-supply campaigns: the killing of the buffalo).
 
Dave1001 said:
Is that mathematically possible? I think you may diminish the arguments of folks like Finkelstein by mixing lines like this in with their points.
Click to expand...

This is one of your idiosyncratic eccentrics, Dave.
 
Polaris said:
This is one of your idiosyncratic eccentrics, Dave.
Click to expand...

Without a doubt. Do they harm anyone by being allowed to exist freely in society and express their contrarian point of view? If anything, he/she proves freedom of speech and thought by being able to express such a wide range of contrarian views. We're all free to believe or disbelieve each of his/her ideas.
 
defaultdotxbe said:
there were also camps in colorado, michegan and illinois, my great grandfather spent time in all three of those

they were in no way comparable to german POW or concentration camps
Click to expand...

But were they comparable to the internment camps japanese americans were in? I think it's hard to argue that this aspect of the american WWII history is undertaught relative to similar aspects, such as japanese american internment.
 
Polaris said:
What happened to the Californian indians during the Gold Rush was a bit more of a genocidal slaughter (100,000 or so), however this wasn't official - mainly it was settlers who committed the murders.
Click to expand...

There were a lot of Indians killed in California during the gold rush, but once California became a state, a law was passed that paid a bounty on Indian scalps:

http://www.tachi-yokut.com/history2.html

There were also laws allowing 'vagrant' Indians to be captured and used for slave labor.

Official or not, genocide is genocide. At the time, the law did not protect Indians in California from crime so in this respect, there was government approval. I don't know what this has to do with Holocaust denial but it does show that we humans have a bad habit of wiping out people who are different from us. It's not a German or even a Nazi thing because it happens everywhere, even in America.
 
Last edited:
It's interesting to see how a neo-Nazi Holocaust denier works, and how they think (sic).

"We did the same thing in World War One, making up stories about German soldiers knifing Belgian babies"

You might care to repeat this when next in Belgium, esp. in Louvain. Hint: wear a gum shield and plenty of body armour. Also, have your medical insurance paid up.

"America helped Britain fire bomb every German cities' civilian population."

Excuse me! We here in the UK were doing very well at incendiary terror bombing for years before the US ever joined in the attack on <quote> democratic misunderstood bulwark-against-Communism> Germany <unquote>.

Dresden vs. Hiroshima/Nagasaki? I know the actual figures compiled by the <democratic misunderstood bulwark - oh you get the idea> Germans immediately post-Dresden were a total of @ 25,000. Yes, I know, sad isn't it, a mere fraction of the hundreds of thousands touted by Irving et al.

Skepticism's post is such a touchstone for neo-Nazi denial I wonder if it isn't someone playing a joke.
 
I'm never really sure how to react to a holocaust denier.

Do I try gentle ridicule: "Hey, Skepticism, what color is the sky on your planet?"

Do I cite numerous sources and witnesses: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5

Do I angrily denounce him: "Skepticism, you are a stupid (*&%(#)&( ignoramus."

Do I appeal to his humanity: "Skepticism, twelve million people were slaughtered. Had you been there, you very probably could have been one of them. Think about it."

Do I appeal to his logic: "Why would so much effort be put into such detailed fakery just to single out the Germans? Surely, the Spanish would have been better targets, what with the Inquisition and all."

Do I ignore him:













Yes, I think I've hit on it.
 
LibraryLady said:
Do I appeal to his logic: "Why would so much effort be put into such detailed fakery just to single out the Germans? Surely, the Spanish would have been better targets, what with the Inquisition and all."
Click to expand...

Well the problem with the Spanish is:



Ha! That's two, no three threads that this video is in!
 
maccy said:
Well the problem with the Spanish is:



Ha! That's two, no three threads that this video is in!
Click to expand...

Yes, but my own personal favorite is:



I don't know how to make the "youtube disclaimer thingy," so I'm hoping it's automatic.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
bjb said:
There were a lot of Indians killed in California during the gold rush, but once California became a state, a law was passed that paid a bounty on Indian scalps:

http://www.tachi-yokut.com/history2.html

There were also laws allowing 'vagrant' Indians to be captured and used for slave labor.

Official or not, genocide is genocide. At the time, the law did not protect Indians in California from crime so in this respect, there was government approval. I don't know what this has to do with Holocaust denial but it does show that we humans have a bad habit of wiping out people who are different from us. It's not a German or even a Nazi thing because it happens everywhere, even in America.
Click to expand...

I'm not denying it was genocide. I'm saying it wasn't the brand of systematic extermination the Nazis (and the Turks for that matter) practiced in the 20th century.
 
LibraryLady said:
Yes, but my own personal favorite is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H6DSoqZz_s

I don't know how to make the "youtube disclaimer thingy," so I'm hoping it's automatic.
Click to expand...

To do that one it would be <yt>2H6DSoqZz_s</yt> but with square brackets rather than angle brackets.

In other words, like this:



ETA:

I know this is blowing my own trumpet but you might enjoy this post:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2099987#post2099987

Edited again to add:

You can see all the tags and how to use them by clicking here http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/misc.php?do=bbcode

Doing that has just taught me about the noparse tag, so I can write the youtube stuff properly now:

[yt]2H6DSoqZz_s[/yt]
 
Last edited:
maccy said:
To do that one it would be <yt>2H6DSoqZz_s</yt> but with square brackets rather than angle brackets.

In other words, like this:



ETA:

I know this is blowing my own trumpet but you might enjoy this post:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2099987#post2099987

Edited again to add:

You can see all the tags and how to use them by clicking here http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/misc.php?do=bbcode

Doing that has just taught me about the noparse tag, so I can write the youtube stuff properly now:

[yt]2H6DSoqZz_s[/yt]
Click to expand...


Thank you! Darat has corrected the post above and I have bookmarked the list.

I saw your dead parrot post before; unfortunately it was at work, and I had to stifle my laughter down to muffled shrieks. :lol2:
 
Check your source on this...

Dazed said:
Let me just clarify something.
I was referring to a specific doctored photo.

You may have seen it. It showed a group of prisoners, and in the background, smoke billowing from a chimney. In the original photo, there was no smoke coming from the chimney, so it was edited. Here's the 'reason' for it.

"IN ORDER to reconcile the wartime 1944 photograph with the postwar "eye-witness testimony" of smoke billowing from Crematorium building chimneys, the historians and scholars of the Simon Wiesenthal Center have helpfully inserted smoke into the photograph, thereby avoiding injurious puzzlement among school children and other innocent visitors to its Website who might otherwise fall foul of the lies of the Revisionists."

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/fake/SWCsmokeFake.html

While I don't deny the holocaust, I think its inappropriate to edit the historical documents to make it seem like it was 'more-holocausty' then it really was.

Essentially, this organization said, "We know the holocaust happened, but it doesn't really look like it in this picture, so lets add some burning jews so the children wont get confused."
Click to expand...

This came from "Focal Point Press," which is the website and publishing arm of David Irving, who sued Deborah Lipstadt for libel when she said in her book on Holocaust deniers that he was a big one. Irving, representing himself out of egotism, lost....hugely. The judgment called him a liar, a bigot, a perverter of history, and a lot of other extremely unpleasant names.

Since then, he defied an Austrian ban on going to that country, and did so to address some right-wing college students, and surprise, surprise, got arrested! At his trial, hoping to avoid jail, he reversed his statements of the past 20 years and said the Holocaust was "the tragedy of the Jewish people," but got three years anyway. Once behind bars, he reversed himself again, and said the Holocaust didn't happen.

He has a grim record of twisting facts and history to suit his lifelong thesis that Hitler was a wonderful fellow, and this photo is probably more of the same.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom