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Holocaust denial and Truthers

little grey rabbit

Banned
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Apr 4, 2010
Messages
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Do truthers and holocaust denial overlap?

In my view, less than you would expect.
Most truthers won't embrace Holocaust denial because they like Nazism is the embodiment of human demonic evil as something they can compare whoever they finger the for 911, eg The Bushitler. The idea of evil is a very comforting paradigm for a truther and one which we have been culturally atuned to encompass Nazism.

Few "name" Deniers will embrace truthism because they believe it will harm their "credibility", they are seeking to construct a historical narrative complete with normal academic trappings so being associated with Truthism is just a distraction. The rank and file deniers, of which i am only aware of less than 100 active on the Internet worldwide (but then I don't monitor places like Stormfront or VNN) will tend towards some aspects of Truthism.

The one area there is a bit of overlap is the people who claim Mossad did 911.
These will often indulge in a bit of soft Jeff Rense like denial.

As far as Killtown, if he/she is associated with Webfairy, I think they were both quite enamoured with the idea of Nazism as ultimate evil to ever seriously indulge in HD.
 
Profanz, I think little grey rabbit's on your side. And don't you just love the way he subtly hints that 9/11 conspiracy theories and holocaust denial are both intellectually respectable points of view, but that both groups reject each other's view for spurious reasons? He's holding out an olive branch to both movements, and trying to build links between you.

This should be amazingly entertaining.

Dave
 
Well, at least profanz does not seem to be a holocaust denial industry advertiser.
 
little grey rabbit said:
Do truthers and holocaust denial overlap?

In my view, less than you would expect.
Most truthers won't embrace Holocaust denial because they like Nazism is the embodiment of human demonic evil as something they can compare whoever they finger the for 911, eg The Bushitler. The idea of evil is a very comforting paradigm for a truther and one which we have been culturally atuned to encompass Nazism.

Few "name" Deniers will embrace truthism because they believe it will harm their "credibility", they are seeking to construct a historical narrative complete with normal academic trappings so being associated with Truthism is just a distraction. The rank and file deniers, of which i am only aware of less than 100 active on the Internet worldwide (but then I don't monitor places like Stormfront or VNN) will tend towards some aspects of Truthism.

The one area there is a bit of overlap is the people who claim Mossad did 911.
These will often indulge in a bit of soft Jeff Rense like denial.

As far as Killtown, if he/she is associated with Webfairy, I think they were both quite enamoured with the idea of Nazism as ultimate evil to ever seriously indulge in HD.
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Yes, yes...we all know this. In fact, there was another thread about this earlier this year. While some people new to this forum may still be trying to make this point, it is not mine. My issue is that 911 Truth only appeals to people who believe in conspiracies. There are no 'ordinary' people who have just been compelled by the evidence to address this issue. That's why there are no real engineers or construction professionals involved in 911 causes. Sure, there's AE 911, but they're all conspiracy theorists. The conclusion? Only architects who are conspiracy theorists see signs of controlled demolition in the WTC building collapses. And sure there's the Subnormal IQ Club for 911 Truth, but they all believe in other conspiracy theories. The conclusion? Only people with a subnormal IQ who believe in conspiracy theories see no plane crashing into the Pentagon.

There are all kinds of conspiracy theories. There are Lunar landing conspiracies. There are JFK conspiracies. There are New World Order conspiracies. And yes, there are Holocaust conspiracy theories. It is from their ranks that 911 conspiracy theorists are drawn.

Absolutely 100% of them. There is not even 1 single exception to this point. And obviously, that includes you.
 
I can only guess the OP has a point to make but I can't tell what it is.

Who cares about what other crap toofers do or don't believe in?
 
Dave Rogers said:
Profanz, I think little grey rabbit's on your side. And don't you just love the way he subtly hints that 9/11 conspiracy theories and holocaust denial are both intellectually respectable points of view, but that both groups reject each other's view for spurious reasons? He's holding out an olive branch to both movements, and trying to build links between you.

This should be amazingly entertaining.

Dave
Click to expand...
It ought to be, but no one will play along.

I would say around 50% of HDiers entertain some version of truthism, usually of the "mossad did it" variety.

Most of the Truthers that entertain some kind HD are usually
a. the "Mossad did it" variety
b. trying to undermine both movements
I would estimate 90% of Truthers cleave to Nazism as being the ultimate evil and use that as the yard stick to measure 911 against, hence find the idea of the existence of homicidal gas chambers as supportive of their world view.
 
scott.in.taiwan said:
Yes, yes...we all know this. In fact, there was another thread about this earlier this year. While some people new to this forum may still be trying to make this point, it is not mine. My issue is that 911 Truth only appeals to people who believe in conspiracies. There are no 'ordinary' people who have just been compelled by the evidence to address this issue. That's why there are no real engineers or construction professionals involved in 911 causes. Sure, there's AE 911, but they're all conspiracy theorists. The conclusion? Only architects who are conspiracy theorists see signs of controlled demolition in the WTC building collapses. And sure there's the Subnormal IQ Club for 911 Truth, but they all believe in other conspiracy theories. The conclusion? Only people with a subnormal IQ who believe in conspiracy theories see no plane crashing into the Pentagon.

There are all kinds of conspiracy theories. There are Lunar landing conspiracies. There are JFK conspiracies. There are New World Order conspiracies. And yes, there are Holocaust conspiracy theories. It is from their ranks that 911 conspiracy theorists are drawn.

Absolutely 100% of them. There is not even 1 single exception to this point. And obviously, that includes you.
Click to expand...

Scott, is the point that you are trying to make that I have a subnormal IQ? Should I be outraged, angry, upset?

As point of fact I think acting in conspiracy is implicit in our biology and evolutionary psychology. We are intelligent creatures and social animals, we learn if we form groups we are successful in disproportionate acquisition of resources in terms land, money, prestige and status than if we don't. So mutual assistance groups tend to prosper. After a while these groups, much like your average gang, find that using hazing rituals that might result in disgrace if revealed, makes leaving the group harder and the bonds that bind the group stronger and more successful. This then proceeds to criminal acts and outrages which each group member shares equally in the responsibility, creating a "we must all hang together or we will all hang separately" mentality - much like your normal criminal gang today. Finally the group learns how to discredit its opponents by creating absurd and ridiculous caricatures of itself, straw men for it to knock down. Hence you have "Tin Foil Hat Conspiracy Theory"

The whole phenomena is so explicable in terms of human psychology and evolutionary game theory that it would be incredible if some kind of behaviour I describe above had NOT developed.

Just as an aside, I was reading the Meldungen aus dem Reich sometime ago, reports that the Gestapo compiled from informants about what people were saying that might concern the Nazi regime. I was expecting to find murmurings about euthanasia, gas chambers and mass shootings being reported. To my surprise I didn't find any of that, what I did find, for example, was a clergyman disputing the accounts of Pearl Harbour, saying the Japanese were not nearly strong enough to inflict such a defeat on the US and it was all an invention of Dr Goebbels.

This clergyman was clearly wrong, Pearl Harbour did happen, but was he of subnormal IQ? I would say no, he clearly recognized the dishonesty and hypocrisy of the regime and the fact that little in the media could be taken with trust. If he made errors of specifics and over-estimated the ability of Dr Goebbels to distort reality this does not impact on the clergyman's overall intelligence or integrity.

Scott in Tubingen, of course, would have said he was a subnormal IQ tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist.
 
little grey rabbit said:
Scott, is the point that you are trying to make that I have a subnormal IQ? Should I be outraged, angry, upset?
Click to expand...

No, not at all. In fact, the point I was trying to make had more to do with these silly Fill in the Blank for 911 Truth groups.

As point of fact I think acting in conspiracy is implicit in our biology and evolutionary psychology.
Click to expand...

You do? That's great. Thanks for letting me know you think this.

The whole phenomena is so explicable in terms of human psychology and evolutionary game theory that it would be incredible if some kind of behaviour I describe above had NOT developed.
Click to expand...

And it's all solved. That's why everyone thinks Holocaust Denier/911 Truthers are nuts...because it's natural.

Just as an aside, I was reading the Meldungen aus dem Reich sometime ago, reports that the Gestapo compiled from informants about what people were saying that might concern the Nazi regime. I was expecting to find murmurings about euthanasia, gas chambers and mass shootings being reported. To my surprise I didn't find any of that, what I did find, for example, was a clergyman disputing the accounts of Pearl Harbour, saying the Japanese were not nearly strong enough to inflict such a defeat on the US and it was all an invention of Dr Goebbels.
Click to expand...

We've been through this one already and I still don't understand what the point is supposed to be. Educated people can be mentally ill?

So I made it through the pretentious post that shows how well read you are and how thoughtful your position is. I can now put you in that category of pseudo-intellectual who confuses words for thoughts.

All this just goes to confirm my belief about the marginality of thought that goes into these conspiracy-type things. What makes science into science is not that it's all dressed up in fancy words with numbers written by people who teach at universities. It's science because it's works to describe the word. Anyone who has thought for more than 10 minutes about 911 Truth and still believes anything other than terrorists, planes and fires clearly doesn't get that.
 
Just reading Francis Wheen's "Strange Days Indeed - The Golden Age of Paranoia"

"... irrationality is both cumulative and contagious. You start by reading your horoscope in a newspaper; then you dabble in chakra balancing or feng shui, saying that it's important to keep an open mind; after a while your mind is so open that your brains fall out, and you read the Protocols of the Elders of Zion without noticing anything amiss - and more damagingly, you convince your friends and family that this is quite normal."
Click to expand...
 
little grey rabbit said:
Most of the Truthers that entertain some kind HD are usually
a. the "Mossad did it" variety
b. trying to undermine both movements
Click to expand...

No. They pretty much founded the movement. There is never a Bacon Factror of more than two bewtween twoofers and Nazis of some sort.
 
leftysergeant said:
No. They pretty much founded the movement. There is never a Bacon Factror of more than two bewtween twoofers and Nazis of some sort.
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We went through before in a discussion of the history of the Truth Movement. The conclusion I was willing to accept is that some Truthers are Nazis and some are not. Dicki G and his crew don't appear to Nazis and there's nothing about Judy Wood that would make her appear this was, either. I am a member of We Are Change which remains the only visible sign of the Truth Movement outside the Internet. They have a constitution that forbids racism, although WAC Chicago is disproportionately Muslim.

There may be Nazis who are also Truthers. And non-Nazi Truthers are generally so isolated they will tolerate anyone who will help them, most non-Nazi Truthers agree with the rest of us, that Nazi Truthers are piles of excrement on the side of the road.

Personally, I don't know why they show up here and show how uninformed they are. It's almost as if they they're trying to make people hate them.
 
Since this thread is about both, perhaps this is where the original poster could post a scan of his "PLO hijacking manual" and the emails he sent to / received from the Hague?
 
I think that there is common bond between both groups, and that is fear of ridicule.

If you read many of the ae911truth posts about why they have only 40 structural engineers (according to Gage last month) supporting the petition, then the argument is that people do not sign the petition because of fear of ridicule from their colleagues, friends and family. It's not that people don't believe in their theories.

Now conventional thinking, says that if a large group of experts, who are expected to understand a catastrophic event, believe in a single theory then the theory is correct. So in this case, the fact that 99.999% of structural engineers who are trained to understand structures and failures have not signed the petition, then we can assume that the vast majority believe that the WTC collapses were caused by fire rather than by explosives.

So people like me, who do not care about being ridiculed, ( because its anonymous ) can give lots of support to CD, although not HD. We just need more people to forget about being ridiculed.

Just take the BP disaster in the Gulf. Most experts think it was an accident but perhaps it was a right wind conspiracy to take BP out of the oil business and to make Obama unpopular. Hey you never know, but I am sure there is a book deal in it somewhere?
 
Dave Rogers said:
Profanz, I think little grey rabbit's on your side. And don't you just love the way he subtly hints that 9/11 conspiracy theories and holocaust denial are both intellectually respectable points of view, but that both groups reject each other's view for spurious reasons? He's holding out an olive branch to both movements, and trying to build links between you.

This should be amazingly entertaining.

Dave
Click to expand...

So? Get a point much? How does 9/11 conspiracy bring up so many threads about the holocaust? What the friggin hell does one thing have to do with another? The holocaust? Really? I don't want to hear about it anymore in the context of 9/11. It's ridiculous.
 
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