Hokulele - kurious_kathy Book Challenge

[Roadtoad]

So typical of you Kathy.

See my post above.

 

[Hokulele]

<snipped the good stuff>

Frankly, the most decent thing that could happen here is the moderators banning the both of you. No, you haven't violated the MA. But you have certainly not come here to uphold the mission of JREF. Quite the opposite: your actions demonstrate that you're here to do everything you can to frustrate JREF's central mission, and that you're convinced you're doing so in the name of Jesus for the good of the country. Again, another lie.

Roadtoad, you know that I think you and Peggy are two wonderful people, but I have to respectfully disagree with this. Yes, kurious_kathy and Christian Dude can act rude, heartless, and deliberately obtuse, but I strongly disagree they should be banned. Just I oppose kk's determination to oust all thoughts of Ehrman and his books from her circle of influence (if in fact she has any in the real world), I oppose attempts to censor them in return. I would much rather that their lies, distortions, and various cruelties be posted here where there are many intelligent, compassionate, and wise people who are willing and eager to expose those as such.

I think it is helpful for those who have never been exposed to atheism and critical thinking to see how it really works when applied. I freely admit that one of the goals of my issuing the challenge to kk in the first place was to offer up a public opportunity to give a true compare and contrast example of how I approach the reality of the world and those who may disagree with me, and how kk approaches the same. I wanted to make it absolutely clear that for every kathy cowering behind her unread Bible, there is someone like me who has the confidence to face divergent viewpoints and honestly consider what someone else has to say on a topic.

I considered myself an atheist long before I had even heard of Bart Ehrman and his work. My library contains writings on most of the main religions, primary sources whenever possible, and not a few of the more obscure ones. I have attended services in Buddhist temples, Christian churches of many demoninations, and Muslim mosques. I find the study of various religions to be fascinating, not because it teaches me anything about the universe as a whole, but because it teaches me about people.

Let kathy and her ilk continue to bleat away their unexamined platitudes. Each time she causes offense, be the counter-example. You should absolutely explain why you take offense and you have every right to demand an apology, or at least a promise to desist. You are also completely justified in holding such people to their word. But please do remember that this is first and foremost a forum to encourage thoughtful examination of various things and not simply a place for people to sit around agreeing with each other.

After all, as has been pointed out many times, kk is probably the best advocate we have for critical thinking. Just look at how many people are now interested in reading Ehrman. I couldn't be more thrilled with the outcome of this thread.

 

[Moochie]

Roadtoad, you know that I think you are Peggy are two wonderful people, but I have to respectfully disagree with this. Yes, kurious_kathy and Christian Dude can act rude, heartless, and deliberately obtuse, but I strongly disagree they should be banned. Just I oppose kk's determination to oust all thoughts of Ehrman and his books from her circle of influence (if in fact she has any in the real world), I oppose attempts to censor them in return. I would much rather that their lies, distortions, and various cruelties be posted here where there are many intelligent, compassionate, and wise people who are willing and eager to expose those as such.

I think it is helpful for those who have never been exposed to atheism and critical thinking to see how it really works when applied. I freely admit that one of the goals of my issuing the challenge to kk in the first place was to offer up a public opportunity to give a true compare and contrast example of how I approach the reality of the world and those who may disagree with me, and how kk approaches the same. I wanted to make it absolutely clear that for every kathy cowering behind her unread Bible, there is someone like me who has the confidence to face divergent viewpoints and honestly consider what someone else has to say on a topic.

I considered myself an atheist long before I had even heard of Bart Ehrman and his work. My library contains writings on most of the main religions, primary sources whenever possible, and not a few of the more obscure ones. I have attended services in Buddhist temples, Christian churches of many demoninations, and Muslim mosques. I find the study of various religions to be fascinating, not because it teaches me anything about the universe as a whole, but because it teaches me about people.

Let kathy and her ilk continue to bleat away their unexamined platitudes. Each time she causes offense, be the counter-example. You should absolutely explain why you take offense and you have every right to demand an apology, or at least a promise to desist. You are also completely justified in holding such people to their word. But please do remember that this is first and foremost a forum to encourage thoughtful examination of various things and not simply a place for people to sit around agreeing with each other.

After all, as has been pointed out many times, kk is probably the best advocate we have for critical thinking. Just look at how many people are now interested in reading Ehrman. I couldn't be more thrilled with the outcome of this thread.

I definitely second that. No offense to you, RT.


M.

 

[Quinn]

Just look at how many people are now interested in reading Ehrman. I couldn't be more thrilled with the outcome of this thread.

You've clearly manipulated poor Kathy to engineer this outcome, inspired by Satan of course. I can picture you tapping your fingertips together evilly, "mwa-ha-haa"ing, and twirling your handlebar mustache.

 

[JimBenArm]

You've clearly manipulated poor Kathy to engineer this outcome, inspired by Satan of course. I can picture you tapping your fingertips together evilly, "mwa-ha-haa"ing, and twirling your handlebar mustache.

And I wish I could see the look on your husband's face when he sees you with a moustache!

 

[supercorgi]

~!

Well, no one can say that I didn't try. Since you clearly will not address any of the points made in the book, other than to complain about Ehrman personally, I will try and summarize for the others following this thread.

Thanks for summing this up Hokulele. You kept your end of the bargin and had enlightened many of us. It's a shame that KK is not able to be honorable and keep up her side of the bargin and is so doggely determined to not think for herself. As irritating as she is, I do sort pity her. Her message seems to be "shut down your brain for Jesus!" and that is really sad.

 

[Hokulele]

You've clearly manipulated poor Kathy to engineer this outcome, inspired by Satan of course. I can picture you tapping your fingertips together evilly, "mwa-ha-haa"ing, and twirling your handlebar mustache.

Curses, foiled again!

And I wish I could see the look on your husband's face when he sees you with a moustache!

What makes you think he hasn't seen it yet?



And I would like to thank all of you who have participated in or read this thread. When kurious_kathy asked why I hadn't carried on this conversation via PM, well, that is the reason why. For all of my frustration with kk's evasiveness, I do think it was all worthwhile.

All right, Mr. DeMille, I am ready for my close-up.

 

[threejr]

I would just like to add my thanks to those of you who debate the KK's and the Christian Dudes. When I first came here three years ago, I was just on the edge of my deconversion.

Reading the polite, intelligent, well-thought out posts both here and in the General Skepticism forum helped me a great deal.

I am still not quite comfortable enough to jump in myself on most topics, but I do appreciate those who do.

As for banning KK, I must also respectfully disagree with RoadToad. I think that may be what she's looking for-after all, being banned would just give her a reason to claim persecution for being Christian.

 

[Roadtoad]

I would just like to add my thanks to those of you who debate the KK's and the Christian Dudes. When I first came here three years ago, I was just on the edge of my deconversion.

Reading the polite, intelligent, well-thought out posts both here and in the General Skepticism forum helped me a great deal.

I am still not quite comfortable enough to jump in myself on most topics, but I do appreciate those who do.

As for banning KK, I must also respectfully disagree with RoadToad. I think that may be what she's looking for-after all, being banned would just give her a reason to claim persecution for being Christian.

Perhaps.

Perhaps not.

The reason for a proposed banning is not that Kathy is a Christian, but because she's spamming the board with her bleats. She's deliberately trying to incite the kind of responses she's getting. She's not being persecuted, she's being disciplined. Had any one of us said even half of what she has, we'd have been gone. Period.

Nevertheless, I guess if you've never experienced this kind of sideshow, you might as well see it here. Freaks like KK and CD are becoming more and more common, so you might as well have something rational to compare them to. At least then, you'll realize that not everyone is going nuts.

(Gawd, where's Claus when you need him?)

 

[thaiboxerken]

It's nice to see KK isn't banned. Her posts are great and will help the de-conversion of theists who are starting to doubt their faith. Thanks Kathy!

 

[fromdownunder]

It's nice to see KK isn't banned. Her posts are great and will help the de-conversion of theists who are starting to doubt their faith. Thanks Kathy!

I think that Kathy, her Husband and their Master are also great role models for other Christians as to what not to do.

Norm

 

[dafydd]

Jesus's most profound statement when hanging around on the cross was
"What a hell of a way to spend easter!"

 

[dafydd]

After the crucifiction the disciples were sitting in an inn
in Nazareth,drowing their sorrows,when Jesus walks through the door

"Here I am boys,alive again!"

They all believe him,except Thomas.

"If you are him,prove it."

Jesus takes them out the back to a large,full water butt

"Hoist me up and I'll walk on water for you again."

They lift him up,he tries to stand on the surface but sinks;

"See,says Thomas,I said that you weren't Jesus"

Jesus replies

"Have you tried it with these holes in your feet?"

 

[Chaos]

As for banning KK, I must also respectfully disagree with RoadToad. I think that may be what she's looking for-after all, being banned would just give her a reason to claim persecution for being Christian.

With all due respect, people like KK will take the mere fact that people voice different opinions on faith as sufficient to claim persecution for being Christian.

Bending over backwards to allow them to spam the boards with their drivel isn´t going to make a difference.

 

[Sideroxylon]

Kathy's threads do serve a purpose. A lot of us never get to meet one of the extreme cult-christians in person so it's very educational. If you realize in advance you won't get any actual dialog, observation of the psycology involved can be entertaining enough.

I'm with Marcus. I come here for this kind of thing. Also, the considered responses many of you make may well be lost on the person you are addressing but are thought provoking to others.

 

[SezMe]

Ehrman discusses in this book his own personal anguish of not being able to reconcile the claims of faith with the facts of life and thus challenges everyone to evaluate what we believe about how God engages with the world.

So you didn't listen to the book, then.

Having read Misquoting Jesus and really getting a lot out of it, when I saw his suffering book while passing through an airport last week, I quickly bought it and just finished reading it. The part where he draws his own conclusions on suffering is a very small part of the book. As he emphasizes several times, the thrust of the book is to examine the bible's explanation of theodicy, not his own. Actually, the many explanations in the bible, some of which, as he points out, are contradictory.

It's an interesting read - or listen. Give it a try some time.

 

[Georg]

Jesus's most profound statement when hanging around on the cross was
"What a hell of a way to spend easter!"

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to post that one again:

PS: I´d be against banning kk for the reasons some others already stated.
Not participating in the thread myself, I still have a look from time to time and really enjoy seeing her exposed and her "arguments", quite well summed up by supercorgi

Her message seems to be "shut down your brain for Jesus!"

systematically destroyed.

Good work folks, thank you.

 

[Marcus]

Ehrman was on the radio for several hours this weekend, taking calls from (mostly Christian) callers mainly discussing Misquoting Jesus. A lot of the points have been discussed here, the bible is so full on contradictions that it's a deep subject. The striking thing was Ehrman's encyclopedic knowledge of the bible and related documents, much greater than the callers, even the pastors.

It reminded me of this board a bit, actually.

 

[Moochie]

It's nice to see KK isn't banned. Her posts are great and will help the de-conversion of theists who are starting to doubt their faith. Thanks Kathy!

I agree. IMO there are more Americans who are only nominally Christian than we generally allow. The fundamentalists' voices, like KK's and CD's, tend to have a reach far greater than their actual numbers.

The sort of fundamentalism displayed by KK and CD went through Australia a few decades ago. Caught up in the manufactured delirium of "talking in tongues," etc., were my former sister-in-law and her new husband, and, because they had no choice in it, my two nieces.

They were small-town folks who joined a small-town church, a church that was proving mighty attractive thanks to its "bliss-bombing" of prospective members, its rock-music "services" for young people, and its aforementioned cathartic practice of "speaking in tongues."

As it turned out, this church more or less died when it was discovered that the pastor was diddling the kids of the flock. Worse yet (for me) was the news that my former sister-in-law's new husband had been charged with the same offense: he'd been diddling my nieces.

I say all this to press the point that these kinds of "churches" and the (usually men) who lead them tend to appeal to the more vulnerable, less sophisticated folk in any society. That was certainly the case with my former sister-in-law and her family. But, water under the bridge. She's no longer religious, and neither are her children. And she's found a nice old fart with whom to spend the good years of her life.

I understand KK as being very similar to my sister-in-law. CD, I feel, has found a way to express perhaps the more questionable aspects of his personality in a socially sanctioned way, and is apparently looking to make it his career.

I pity the lot of them


M.

 

[dafydd]

Don't ban her,she is the best recruiting sergeant ever for the atheist cause.