Hillary Clinton is Done

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Darat said:
That wasn't really the question I asked - if you had to chose between the two who would you vote for? I'm curious to know which is the lesser of two bad options in peoples' minds.
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I'm a Democrat. I vote the ticket. But those of us who will are going to be insufficient. I feel just as excited about Hillary's chances as I felt about Kerry's. And we saw that one play out.
 
BenBurch said:
Because if you get the entire Democratic base out to vote (which seems unlikely with Hillary anyway) you need to attract non-Democrats to win a national election and she has no ability to do that.
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Last several Pres elections were only 1 1/2% swing to determine the popular win by 3%. And I've been saying for years that Hillary will not get a single Repub to switch.

Last Pres election would have gone the other way if a particular 250,000 voters had gone the other way.

A Trump/Carson ticket might get enough Dems to jump ship to vote for the black guy to put Hillary in the dog house.
 
casebro said:
Last several Pres elections were only 1 1/2% swing to determine the popular win by 3%. And I've been saying for years that Hillary will not get a single Repub to switch. ...
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Yes she will. She'll get Republican women who are tired of you men running the world into the ground.

:cool:
 
casebro said:
Last several Pres elections were only 1 1/2% swing to determine the popular win by 3%. And I've been saying for years that Hillary will not get a single Repub to switch.
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She doesn't have to. All she has to do is make them so depressed about their chances of winning that they refuse to vote altogether. Her chance of doing that may be very high depending on the Republican candidate.
 
Darat said:
That wasn't really the question I asked - if you had to chose between the two who would you vote for? I'm curious to know which is the lesser of two bad options in peoples' minds.
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If someone held a gun to my head and forced me to decide, I still don't know that I could - I may just take the bullet.

This is the most depressing general election I've ever seen.

Hillary: I just can't see or say anything good about her. I loathe her arrogance and her "rules don't apply to me" attitude. Her foreign policy sucks. Her flip-flopping, even her attitude during her husbands harassment (and worse) accusations from various women. Almost everything she has ever done disgusts me. The Clintons all need to just go away. She wants it waaaay too much.

Ten years ago she would have been a very small maybe for me (against Trump), as she was shrewd and pretty smart. I think she's lost her edge though.

Trump: :rolleyes: he says a lot of things people want to hear, including myself to some degree. Tough on immigration, wants America to make decisions that benefit us more than the other guy, etc. But the details he provides - my gawd the guy is a moron. We need someone like Trump - someone "outside the system" who seems to want the right things for this country. But we need someone else with these qualities, not Trump.

Then again, throw him in there and see what happens. Could things get any worse? At least it would be interesting.

Give me the gun and I'll just shoot myself. Seriously, we are in big big trouble here.

Besides them, I don't see Sanders as a good choice. The Dems are really weak this time around. Maybe one of the other Repubs would be better. I lean to the right, but at this point I don't see myself voting for president at all.

There isn't even a way to vote against anybody because they are all horrible choices. I always said that if Hillary won that I would move out of the country - but Trump? :(

I don't want either side to have the possible responsibility of appointing 3 or 4 of our next Supreme Court Justices either. On that note, we need either term limits, age limits, or both with these people.

:( I will now go weep - day ruined.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Yes she will. She'll get Republican women who are tired of you men running the world into the ground.

:cool:
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lolz, she was married to the biggest horn dog in history and stuck up for him every day.

i am sure that women looking to break away are not overly impressed with Hillary Clinton.
 
Tiktaalik said:
http://www.salon.com/2015/12/05/the...rusade_against_hillary_clinton_needs_to_stop/

Relevant article
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From the link:
they’re also indicative of just how much the aversion to her candidacy — even among those on the left — is removed from the realm of policy. Even in Bragman’s takedown of Clinton, he begins with her image: “Hillary’s personality repels me (and many others).”

Bragman reminds us that this isn’t a woman thing — he’s a feminist, after all — but it might not be overtly sexist as much as a byproduct of it, as well as the gender hangups of an earlier decade. Leibovitch points this out in his Times article, explaining:

“She was a working woman and full political partner with (gasp) feminist tendencies. Among would-be first ladies in the early 1990s, these were exotic qualities.”
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The article reflects my view as well. Part of me is tempted to buy the demon-painted image when I see things like, oooh, look at her evil ties to rich donors. And then I remember this woman has a very long history of supporting things that I support.

Clinton has continued to occupy that same space for the better part of three decades now, a one-woman culture war who plays the political game the same way the men around her do. But unlike those men, Clinton is chided for being “disingenuous” and a “political insider.” Everyone else just gets to do their job.
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People claiming they are feminists so they couldn't be affected by her gender are full of it, IMO. Powerful women conjure up unconscious images of bitches, we don't have complete control of this ingrained cultural knee-jerk.


I especially think this is true:
Bernie Sanders’ supporters might accuse Clinton of sounding like a Republican, but we’re the ones who are doing the GOP’s dirty work for them.
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Skeptic Ginger said:
From the link:


The article reflects my view as well. Part of me is tempted to buy the demon-painted image when I see things like, oooh, look at her evil ties to rich donors. And then I remember this woman has a very long history of supporting things that I support.


People claiming they are feminists so they couldn't be affected by her gender are full of it, IMO. Powerful women conjure up unconscious images of bitches, we don't have complete control of this ingrained cultural knee-jerk.
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or maybe her evil ties to rich donors might conjure up conscious images of her and her husband's whoring for cash for the last three decades.
 
16.5 said:
lolz, she was married to the biggest horn dog in history and stuck up for him every day.

i am sure that women looking to break away are not overly impressed with Hillary Clinton.
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As opposed to everybody on your side, that go out of their way to denigrate and belittle women?

There is no way any republicant wins the woman vote. None.
 
NoahFence said:
There is no way any republican wins the woman vote. None.
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And the black vote they can just forget. Even Carson can't bring the African American vote remotely even between the Republicans and Democrats.

Hispanics can be very socially conservative, but I can't believe any would vote for a guy who wants to deport millions, build a wall and send Mexico the bill. This, btw, is why I think Rubio will be the eventual nominee. He's got the best chance to pull in minority votes that would otherwise be Democratic.
 
NoahFence said:
As opposed to everybody on your side, that go out of their way to denigrate and belittle women?
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More lies.
Look what president Clinton did to his wife. Obama or Hillary don't even pay women equally with men.

Before you mention abortion, plenty of woman are against it. Plenty of woman also don't think government should be cradle to grave.
 
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logger said:
More lies.
Look what president Clinton did to his wife. Obama or Hillary don't even pay women equally with men.
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Just looking at Clinton because I don't want to chase down every lie you post:

FactCheck: Gender Pay Gap in Clinton’s Senate Office?
The Republican National Committee chairman says Hillary Clinton paid women in her Senate office less than men. But annual salary data provided by the Clinton campaign show median salaries for men and women in Clinton’s office were virtually identical.
What gives? The answer may be unsatisfying, but it boils down to methodology.
...

Pushing back against that analysis, the Clinton campaign provided FactCheck.org a list of the names, titles and annual salaries of every full-time person employed in Clinton’s Senate office between 2002 and 2008. Those data show the median salary for men and women to be the same at $40,000. The data also show Clinton hired roughly twice as many women as men.
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logger said:
Before you mention abortion, plenty of woman are against it. Plenty of woman also don't think government should be cradle to grave.
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No one is saying there won't be a single black/Hispanic/woman voting for the Republican. We often see women like Ann Coulter, Michele Bachman and Sarah Palin in the news.

The point was that the majority of women are going to vote for the Democratic Party candidate.
In every presidential election year from 1980 - 2008 women have outnumbered men in voting Democratic and the same is true for men outnumbering women voting Republican.[1]
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That should say white men vote Republican.
 
logger said:
More lies.
Look what president Clinton did to his wife. Obama or Hillary don't even pay women equally with men.

Before you mention abortion, plenty of woman are against it. Plenty of woman also don't think government should be cradle to grave.
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Yes, and Bill Clinton doesn't have a prayer of winning this election.

Try to keep up.
 
BenBurch said:
I'm a Democrat. I vote the ticket. But those of us who will are going to be insufficient. I feel just as excited about Hillary's chances as I felt about Kerry's. And we saw that one play out.
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That's actually a great analogy and how Sanders will be swift boated into oblivion.

And I am a Sanders supporter.
 
DavidJames said:
That's actually a great analogy and how Sanders will be swift boated into oblivion.

And I am a Sanders supporter.
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I'm a Sanders supporter, also. He may be a little too far right for my tastes, but while he's still alive in the primaries, I will support him. Notwithstanding that it would mean a rather radical shift in the thinking of the country, if he was to gain the nomination I would still vote for him, knowing that he's going to lose to almost any GOP nominee.

I've mentioned before, but I want the debate in the party to re-focus the Dems on progressive issues. His candidacy is a good thing. But in 2016, the country hasn't swung enough back away from the nutso right. He cannot win.

But not supporting the party nominee because you don't like him/her? From my side of the political spectrum that makes no sense. The Republicans (let's stop pretending it's "some Republicans") have gone off the deep end and a GOP White House has more negatives than a not-Hillary White House does.

1. A GOP White House would very likely give them control of the Executive, Legislative and Judiciary. How long before those clowns repeal ACA? (Just to pick the most obvious example.)
2. They are anti-rational thinking, bible-driven, anti-science purveyors of voodoo when it comes to AGW, to abortion and birth control rights, and to separation of church and state. Those same clowns who will now be in control of both houses of Congress are the ones who have been passing onerous laws and rolling back any progressive achievements on the local level for the past decade.
3. The Supreme Court will be turned over to the paleos for another three decades.

I'll vote for Francis the Talking Mule against anyone from the GOP.
 
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Foolmewunz said:
I'm a Sanders supporter, also. He may be a little too far right for my tastes, but while he's still alive in the primaries, I will support him. Notwithstanding that it would mean a rather radical shift in the thinking of the country, if he was to gain the nomination I would still vote for him, knowing that he's going to lose to almost any GOP nominee.

I've mentioned before, but I want the debate in the party to re-focus the Dems on progressive issues. His candidacy is a good thing. But in 2016, the country hasn't swung enough back away from the nutso right. He cannot win.

But not supporting the party nominee because you don't like him/her? From my side of the political spectrum that makes no sense. The Republicans (let's stop pretending it's "some Republicans") have gone off the deep end and a GOP White House has more negatives than a not-Hillary White House does.

1. A GOP White House would very likely give them control of the Executive, Legislative and Judiciary. How long before those clowns repeal ACA? (Just to pick the most obvious example.)
2. They are anti-rational thinking, bible-driven, anti-science purveyors of voodoo when it comes to AGW, to abortion and birth control rights, and to separation of church and state. Those same clowns who will now be in control of both houses of Congress are the ones who have been passing onerous laws and rolling back any progressive achievements on the local level for the past decade.
3. The Supreme Court will be turned over to the paleos for another three decades.

I'll vote for Francis the Talking Mule against anyone from the GOP.
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Down ticket effort will only be hurt if there is a general loss of interest in any of the major Left groups/segments, which only happens when establishment candidates are run by the party that holds the white house with a president who has hovered around 50% (+14/-9). A populist campaign tends to energize and expand electorates, whereas establishment campaigns (especially when you are the incumbent party of the White House and the presidency isn't particularly popular) tend to depress and shrink electorates. Personally, I don't think Hillary can capture much more than a fraction of Obama's numbers, and the Clinton name alone will give the majority of the GOP and many independents a reason to turn out and "vote for Francis the Talking Mule against" a Clinton. Hillary, as the candidate, may well cost the Democratic party the currently likely shot to take back the Senate and make significant advances on the House, not to mention the White House (and possibly a couple seats on the Supreme Court),...but, that's my perspective, I'm sure there are others.
 
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