Hillary Clinton is Done: part 2

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Trakar said:
55 percent of Americans, including 60 percent of Republicans and 53 percent of Democrats, say they feel helpless about the 2016 election. And two-thirds of Americans under 30 report feeling helpless...
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Those who report feeling 'helpless' only have themselves to blame.

Worst Voter Turnout in 72 Years
Over all, the national turnout was 36.3 percent; only the 1942 federal election had a lower participation rate at 33.9 percent. The reasons are apathy, anger and frustration at the relentlessly negative tone of the campaigns...

the decline was particularly acute among younger voters, who made up 13 percent of this year’s electorate compared with 19 percent two years ago.
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Democracy is failing because too many people are too lazy to vote.
 
Hmm, the Gerry Brown endorsement has given the news media incentive to bring up all the Gerry Brown clips haranguing the Clintons for all the reasons Brown should be endorsing Sanders. That almost makes the endorsement doing more harm than good.

Then Bill Clinton endorsed Brown for governor in 2010.

Bill called in the favor maybe?
 
Politifact: Fact-checking Hillary Clinton's claim that her email practices were 'allowed'

Since the news of Clinton’s email came to light in 2015, she has argued that she "complied with every rule" and that the practice was "allowed." We haven’t yet put the issue on the Truth-O-Meter because there were too many unknowns.

But the inspector general’s report has clarified some of those unknowns and demonstrated that Clinton’s exclusive use of personal email was, in fact, not allowed.

Our ruling:

Regarding her decision to use a private email server, Clinton said, "It was allowed."

No one ever stopped Clinton from conducting work over her private email server exclusively. But that’s not the same thing as it being allowed. Offices within the State Department told an independent inspector general that if she had asked, they would not have allowed it.

The report from the State Department’s Office of the Inspector General shatters one of Clinton’s go-to phrases about her email practice. We rate her claim False.​
Read more:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...hecking-hillary-clintons-claim-her-email-pra/ (May 31, 2016)
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Is Crooked Hillary a criminal, or just plain incompetent? The evidence strongly suggests that she's both.

Reference:
Report from the State Department’s Office of the Inspector General
 
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Roger Ramjets said:
Gotta keep pushing that meme, eh?

Snopes: Goldwater Girl
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She doesn't ever seem to have travelled far from her roots, and using the excuse that she changes her mind (or at least what she says) frequently, isn't a very impressive defense of periodically being terribly conservative in her approaches and thinking regarding economics, governance and foreign policy.
 
The_Animus said:
I think anyone still supporting Clinton at this point needs to hand in their progressive card.
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The_Animus said:
Clinton is not progressive. If you took my statement to be a tacit endorsement of Drumpf, that is not the case. Trump is worse but I won't be voting for either of them.
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The_Animus said:
Perhaps a more accurate phrasing would have been to say anyone still voting Clinton at this point shouldn't consider their vote a progressive one. Or for those who would nitpick that, maybe anyone still voting Clinton shouldn't consider themselves to be voting for a progressive candidate. :p
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The_Animus said:
I would amend my original statement as such.

Clinton is not a progressive candidate. She is a centrist, a little right of center in some ways and a little left of center in others, but also a corrupt liar. Those that vote for her in the belief that she is a progressive candidate are not progressive, and should turn in their card.

Those who recognize Clinton isn't progressive but are voting for her anyway because of how horrible Trump is, can keep their progressive card.
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How do you defend these statements?

How is Hillary not a progressive? She is solidly in line with progressives on the core progressive issues. So where do you get off making such proclamations?
 
Trakar said:
She doesn't ever seem to have travelled far from her roots, and using the excuse that she changes her mind (or at least what she says) frequently, isn't a very impressive defense of periodically being terribly conservative in her approaches and thinking regarding economics, governance and foreign policy.
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Her "roots" are what she believed as a sixteen year old? Heaven help us all. At sixteen I was a believer in Assassination Theory and FDR Staged Pearl Harbor.

What was Bernie doing when he was sixteen? It's important. We have to know that in order to make an informed decision.
 
Foolmewunz said:
Her "roots" are what she believed as a sixteen year old? Heaven help us all. At sixteen I was a believer in Assassination Theory and FDR Staged Pearl Harbor.

What was Bernie doing when he was sixteen? It's important. We have to know that in order to make an informed decision.
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That's' been tried, and no doubt will be again. At some point a republican opponent during a Congressional campaign used his objection to a JFK speech as ammunition, somehow forgetting that Sanders had been 21 at the time, and that Kennedy had not been a Republican.
 
Foolmewunz said:
Her "roots" are what she believed as a sixteen year old? Heaven help us all. At sixteen I was a believer in Assassination Theory and FDR Staged Pearl Harbor.

What was Bernie doing when he was sixteen? It's important. We have to know that in order to make an informed decision.
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Yep, her roots, the values, the culture, the familial and community basic world-view framework, the final picture is only taken at death, but by the time one is solidly within their mid to late teens the rough grind of their personal perspective has been accomplished. The process and the product are refined throughout life. The past shapes and is reflected in the future whether we're talking metaphoric philosophy or neural network architecture analogies
 
Trakar said:
Yep, her roots, the values, the culture, the familial and community basic world-view framework, the final picture is only taken at death, but by the time one is solidly within their mid to late teens the rough grind of their personal perspective has been accomplished. The process and the product are refined throughout life. The past shapes and is reflected in the future whether we're talking metaphoric philosophy or neural network architecture analogies
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What a strange, almost religious, view.
 
Trakar said:
Yep, her roots, the values, the culture, the familial and community basic world-view framework, the final picture is only taken at death, but by the time one is solidly within their mid to late teens the rough grind of their personal perspective has been accomplished. The process and the product are refined throughout life. The past shapes and is reflected in the future whether we're talking metaphoric philosophy or neural network architecture analogies
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Do you seriously and honestly believe this, or is it something that you utilize only to attack Hillary? :boggled:
 
uke2se said:
Do you seriously and honestly believe this, or is it something that you utilize only to attack Hillary? :boggled:
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LOL, yes, I do believe and understand this about all people in general, there are individual differences due to developmental circumstance and environment. No, I do not revolve all of my consideration and world view around any one individual.
 
Trakar said:
LOL, yes, I do believe and understand this about all people in general, there are individual differences due to developmental circumstance and environment. No, I do not revolve all of my consideration and world view around any one individual.
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You actually believe that what you Believe at 16 is foundational for your future beliefs, and that you can extrapolate beliefs from that baseline?
 
Foolmewunz said:
What a strange, almost religious, view.
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Speaking of which, how much of Hillary's behavior do you think is shaped by her religious beliefs and experiences, which have been a part of her mental and behavioral development throughout her early life and adult career?
 
Trakar said:
Speaking of which, how much of Hillary's behavior do you think is shaped by her religious beliefs and experiences, which have been a part of her mental and behavioral development throughout her early life and adult career?
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Is your argument that everyone's beliefs develop over time and the experiences in one's life affects one's beliefs? Because if so, what does it matter what Hillary believed at 16 when she hadn't had all those experiences?

TBH, this is one of the dumbest lines of argument I've seen in the politics forum.
 
uke2se said:
You actually believe that what you Believe at 16 is foundational for your future beliefs, and that you can extrapolate beliefs from that baseline?
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No, I believe that one's perspective and perceptions are shaped by the amalgam of their experiences and understandings of the world whether one is 16 or 60. I also believe that the root experiences that a person undergoes in their earliest developmental years of childhood, through early adulthood, become the framework through which much of the rest of life's experiences are perceived and integrated into the person we are. I am not saying that one's earliest beliefs are the same, but rather that a person's perspectives are shaped by family, culture, and choices in their early years and that these perspectives aren't just a result, but that they help shape and color future experiences so that in most cases an individual's past almost always continues to influence and shape their future perspectives and perceptions.
 
Trakar said:
Speaking of which, how much of Hillary's behavior do you think is shaped by her religious beliefs and experiences, which have been a part of her mental and behavioral development throughout her early life and adult career?
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They've been a part of her since childhood. What's the point? Being westerners, most of us are rather steeped in Judeo-Christian moral traditions, even atheists.
 
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