High ranking government insider question 9/11

[geggy]

List of government inside conspiracy kooks here: http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/

This one is especially revealling...this was said just one month after 9/11

Mohamed Hassanein Heikal – Former Foreign Minister of Egypt.

Article: Regarding 9/11 "Bin Laden does not have the capabilities for an operation of this magnitude. When I hear Bush talking about al-Qaida as if it was Nazi Germany or the communist party of the Soviet Union, I laugh because I know what is there. Bin Laden has been under surveillance for years: every telephone call was monitored and al-Qaida has been penetrated by American intelligence, Pakistani intelligence, Saudi intelligence, Egyptian intelligence. They could not have kept secret an operation that required such a degree of organisation and sophistication."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4273924,00.html

Able Danger, an army intelligence data program created in 1999 in order to gather and compile information on al qaeda network, including the 19 hijackers' activities prior to 9/11 as well as osama bin laden's whereabouts, was completely overlooked by the 9/11 commission. More on the Able Danger program here...

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/...911_timeline&projects_and_programs=ableDanger

 

[T.A.M.]

I am confused. Was he a US Politician...The Former Foreign Minister TO Egypt?

TAM

 

[geggy]

I don't know...what do you think...?

 

[T.A.M.]

No my question is a legitimate one. I dont know who he is at all, but in your quote he is referred to as a "Former Foreign Minister OF Egypt"...now if I were a former Foreign Minister of Canada, I would be a minister in the canadian government responsible for dealings with another country. So was this guy in the Egyptian govt (and hence not an american politician), or was he a Former Foreign Minister TO Egypt, which would make him a US politician responsible for dealings with Egypt?

Edit: All links I find to him call him an Egyptian journalist...maybe I am confused?

TAM

 

[Stellafane]

I don't know...what do you think...?

I think he's an Egyptian shill -- see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Hassanein_Heikal .

Gee, a Middle Eastern journalist is claiming OBL couldn't be responsible to 9/11 -- despite the fact that OBL himself has claimed at least partial credit. Geggy, why do you even bother?

 

[defaultdotxbe]

the US doesnt have a title of "minister" for a govt official, so he must be in the egyptian govt, probably the equivilent to the US secretary of state

 

[dirtywick]

Apparantly he's a journalist from Egypt, even according to that article it says he's a commentator which is nothing in an official capacity.

He is not affiliated with the US government in any way, let alone at a "high ranking".

 

[realitybites]

This list of people is getting a lot of play lately. The people on it are quickly becoming the truth movements' brand new collective trophy.

What's telling, is that with just a quick scan through the list, most of them take issue with the Commission Report and how it was conducted. I've yet to run into anyone who feels that the government and administration conducted itself in the most ideal and transparent way during that investigation.

What did we know? When did we know it? These are things that should be answered and people have a right to question. (I myself question them as well.)

But those things are a far cry from the heart of what's become a "truth movement" involving no planes, radical demolitions, and Zionist NWOs.

 

[stateofgrace]

Sounds like he loves the US and Israel also

He enjoyed an equally close but rather more volatile relationship with President Sadat, who imprisoned him in 1981 for opposing the Camp David negotiations

It is important, Heikal says, to differentiate between the powerful anti-American feeling throughout the Middle East and the response to the attack on the World Trade Centre. "I know there were some demonstrations by people who expressed happiness,"

The reasons for that loathing of the US are, he says, easy to pinpoint - the Americans' "blind" support for Israel and their backing for illegitimate, discredited regimes across the Middle East

It is revolting to see them talking about democracy and then supporting undemocratic regimes. They talk about international legitimacy and then support what the Israelis are doing."

From your own link geggy.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4273924,00.html

 

[Stellafane]

OK geggy, let's see what you've got -- an Egyptian journalist, with no connection to the US government at all (never mind a "high ranking insider"), thought back in 2001 that OBL couldn't have perpetrated 9/11 -- and was later proved wrong by OBL himself.

Will the fact that you've just been proven to be thermonuclearly ridiculous have any impact on you at all?

 

[geggy]

Attacking the messenger and not the message. Interesting tactic to use in an argument.

So how about that Able Danger data mining program? They were under constant surviellence even before 9/11, what do you think should have been done? Do you think the commission should have focused on the program because it might contain useful information to support their case?

 

[DavidJames]

So how about that Able Danger data mining program?

I love CTists, they spew out claims, when one gets smacked down, they ignore it and move on the the next.

CTists like geggy will always believe in a CT, it's defines them.

Oh, I'm not sure I ever thanked you for my sig - Thanks.

 

[hellaeon]

Why why why do you find something and not read it, then come here and post it as if its your big smoking gun. Then people here do your research and show you some faults, you go away and do the same thing over and over. Mate, the world is way way way more naturally amazing in so many ways you could only imagine because your grasp on things is seemingly very limited.

PLEASE for your own sake in the rest of your worldy endeavours, do the research PROPERLY.

 

[jon]

List of government inside conspiracy kooks here: http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/

This one is especially revealling...this was said just one month after 9/11

Mohamed Hassanein Heikal – Former Foreign Minister of Egypt.

Article: Regarding 9/11 "Bin Laden does not have the capabilities for an operation of this magnitude. When I hear Bush talking about al-Qaida as if it was Nazi Germany or the communist party of the Soviet Union, I laugh because I know what is there. Bin Laden has been under surveillance for years: every telephone call was monitored and al-Qaida has been penetrated by American intelligence, Pakistani intelligence, Saudi intelligence, Egyptian intelligence. They could not have kept secret an operation that required such a degree of organisation and sophistication."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Ar...273924,00.html

Able Danger, an army intelligence data program created in 1999 in order to gather and compile information on al qaeda network, including the 19 hijackers' activities prior to 9/11 as well as osama bin laden's whereabouts, was completely overlooked by the 9/11 commission. More on the Able Danger program here...

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/...911_timeline&projects_and_programs=ableDanger

Looks like the Egyptian official may not have had all the facts. Bin Laden was aware that his satellite phone was being bugged from the mid-1990s, when this info was leaked into the public domain (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/21/AR2005122101994_pf.html) If someone is aware that they are being bugged they will - if resourceful - find more secure ways to conduct business that they want to be kept secret. Bin Laden, I would think, was pretty resourceful.

 

[Loss Leader]

It's all a great big circle with these CT loons, isn't it. Now Geggy wants us to ignore his own post in which he incorrectly identified a random middle eastern journalist as a high-ranking government official and instead talk about Able Danger? Really? We're going all the way back to Able Danger?

Okay. Able Danger was a program that developed some information about some people who may have been involved with the 9/11 bombing. However, mostly due to long-standing bureaucratic inertia, this information was not well-distributed through the fractured mosaic of domestic counter-terrorism units.

In any case, anyone who believes Able Danger correctly identified the 9/11 terrorists must necessarily believe that these terrorists were responsible for the events of 9/11. Faulting the US for ignoring Able Danger is fundamentally inconsistent with any controlled-demolition conspiracy theory.

I'm sure this will completely settle the matter.

 

[CurtC]

Attacking the messenger and not the message. Interesting tactic to use in an argument.

So how about that Able Danger data mining program?

So this is your admission that at least the first part of your opening post was full of ****?

 

[Orphia Nay]

Why why why do you find something and not read it, then come here and post it as if its your big smoking gun. Then people here do your research and show you some faults, you go away and do the same thing over and over. Mate, the world is way way way more naturally amazing in so many ways you could only imagine because your grasp on things is seemingly very limited.

PLEASE for your own sake in the rest of your worldy endeavours, do the research PROPERLY.

I second that. (Well said, hellaeon.)


(Off-Topic: To CurtC, have you checked your private messages lately?)

 

[LashL]

Why why why do you find something and not read it, then come here and post it as if its your big smoking gun. Then people here do your research and show you some faults, you go away and do the same thing over and over.

My guess:

Because most CTers are utterly incapable of and unwilling to actually undertake any independent or legitimate research themselves, just as they are utterly incapable and unwilling to absorb or comprehend the results of legitimate research done by legitimate experts.

They seem to prefer the "research by google" method. Hey, who needs legitimate research, legitimate experts, or accurate, defensible, testable and provable information when they can hang around in their mothers' basements and google up a storm to try to impress people even more gullible than themselves?

Sadly, (no, make that very, very, very, very, very, very sadly), there seems to be no shortage of such CTers even more gullible than themselves, and THAT is a sad commentary on the "state of the union" as it were.

 

[geggy]

No I don't care who the guy is himself, what the guy said was true that al qaeda, especially bin laden and the 19 hijackers were under constant surviellance. Just thought I'd mention the Able danger which was one of the program used to gather and compile information on them. Thought it was worth taking a look at, that's all.

 

[gumboot]

No I don't care who the guy is himself, what the guy said was true that al qaeda, especially bin laden and the 19 hijackers were under constant surviellance. Just thought I'd mention the Able danger which was one of the program used to gather and compile information on them. Thought it was worth taking a look at, that's all.

I think you need to turn your CT filter off for a bit and give your brain some exercise. This insinuation that the US Government was watching every move of every Al Qaeda member right up until the morning of 9/11 is boring and senseless.

It's touching to have so much faith in US intelligence gathering, but your faith is misplaced. Intelligence, in any form, has always had a history of being false, misguided, incomplete, and generally unreliable.

That's part of the territory - afterall, some intelligence is (usually) better than none. (Although perhaps the Spartans had it right - the only intelligence they ever made any attempt to gather was "where are the enemy?").

It's unhealthy to rely on intelligence. And it's even more unhealthy to assume your nation has a pristine God-view picture of the world.

ESPECIALLY when your enemy know all your tricks.

-Andrew