Hercules and Jesus

[maximara]

The Codices of the Church contain the teachings of the Church..

Correction the Codices have part of the teachings of the Church. As I have shown those Codices didn't exist in a vacuum. You have churchmen saying the earth was a globe because Aristotle was the go to for their cosmology

The Codices of the Church contain Gospels and Epistles dated to at least the 2nd-3rd century.

Which is a sampling of the 30 some Gospels and who knows how many Epistles that were around the 2nd-3rd century

The Codices of the Church contain Greek translation of books from Hebrew Scripture dated hundreds of years before the Common Era.

Which has no bearing on the use of Aristotle cosmology as the means to interpreted what was to be read literally and what was to be written off as dreams or visions.

In fact, the Hellenistic era (c.330 BCE) is when Aristotelian Cosmology became all the rage. By the time the Roman Catholic Church settled on what books were and were not in the bible and what the doctrine was the Aristotelian-Ptolemaic model was the go to for what in the Bible was to be real literally and what were visions.

 

[Mcreal]

Regarding

Ancient Church Father Origen, writing around 200 CE - http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/04124.htm -

- it reads differently with different emphasis -

... it is very easy for anyone who pleases to gather out of holy Scripture what is recorded, indeed, as having been done, but what nevertheless cannot be believed as having reasonably and appropriately occurred according to the historical account.

The same style of Scriptural narrative occurs abundantly in the Gospels, as when the devil is said to have placed Jesus on a lofty mountain, that he might show Him from thence all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them. How could it literally come to pass, either that Jesus should be led up by the devil into a high mountain, or that the latter should show him all the kingdoms of the world (as if they were lying beneath his bodily eyes, and adjacent to one mountain), ie., the kingdoms of the Persians, and Scythians, and Indians? Or how could he show in what manner the kings of these kingdoms are glorified by men?

And many other instances similar to this will be found in the Gospels by anyone who will read them with attention, and will observe that, in those narratives which appear to be literally recorded, there are inserted and interwoven things which cannot be admitted historically, but which may be accepted in a spiritual signification.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/04124.htm

 

[Mcreal]

Originally Posted by dejudge
The Christian Bible contains the teachings of the Christian Church.

A Christian church. We know that even at 180 CE Christianity had badly fragmented. By the time Constantine I had the First Council of Nicaea Christianity was already fragmenting.

or the fragments were a rabble of loosely-connected sects developing theology separately or sometimes in conjunction with each other.

Around the time of Marcian, the Emperor in the 6th century the divisions that would form the Coptic, Ethiopian, Eritrean, Syica, Armenian Apostolic, and Malankara churches as well as the better known Eastern (Greek) Orthodox and Roman Catholic schism had occurred.

Then you had groups like the Marcionism and Arianism that survived into the Middle Ages; and others like Nestorianism and Eutychianism that survived to the present day

Arianism was still a challenge after the First Council of Nicea. Constantine I's successor - his son Constantius II - was Arian-leaning & that had invoked discussion in the mid 4th century about replacing the Nicean Creed.

 

[GDon]

Regarding
- it reads differently with different emphasis -

I'm not sure what you mean. Can you clarify? What is the different reading that you refer to?

 

[dejudge]

Some people get too literal regarding what the Bible.

As shown before even with the Roman Catholic Church using Aristotelian cosmology (which said the Earth was a globe) you had the occasional churchman taking the Bible literally.

Your claim is completely absurd. The Roman Church taught and documented publicly in their Codices that the earth was fixed, flat with foundations.

The Roman Church used Greek translation of Hebrew Scripture [not Aristotle] to promote their fixed flat earth.

Examine the book of Isaiah of the Church with the doctrine of the fixed flat earth.

Isaiah 51:16---- And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.

 

[Craig B]

The Roman Church used Greek translation of Hebrew Scripture [not Aristotle] to promote their fixed flat earth.

Examine the book of Isaiah of the Church

Hi, dejudge. Long time no see.

Give us examples please of the Church doing this. What on earth is "the book of Isaiah of the Church"? Show us the Church promoting a flat earth. It promoted a static earth, yes, but not a flat one. Here's Pope Sylvester II^WP around 1000 CE

First [he] demonstrated the form of the world by a plain wooden sphere... thus expressing a very big thing by a little model. Slanting this sphere by its two poles on the horizon, he showed the northern constellations toward the upper pole and the southern toward the lower pole.​

Then he condemned himself for heresy and burned himself to ashes. That was a joke.

ETA Sylvester DID promote the idea that the world was static, and that the sky turned round it. Here he is doing that, same source.

He succeeded equally in showing the paths of the planets when they come near or withdraw from the earth.​

But he knew that the earth was round, and promoted that idea in his scholarly works.

 

[Mcreal]

I'm not sure what you mean. Can you clarify? What is the different reading that you refer to?

This is probably getting off-topic, but I think it is an interesting commentary when read thus -

... it is very easy for anyone who pleases to gather out of holy Scripture what is recorded ... but what nevertheless cannot be believed (as having reasonably and appropriately occurred according to the historical account).

The same style of Scriptural narrative occurs abundantly in the Gospels, as when the devil is said to have placed Jesus on a lofty mountain ... How could it literally come to pass, either that Jesus should be led up by the devil into a high mountain, or that the latter should show him all the kingdoms of the world

... in those narratives which appear to be literally recorded, there are inserted and interwoven things which cannot be admitted historically (but which may be accepted in a spiritual signification).

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/04124.htm

The impression I get is that Origen was cynical about the truthfulness or veracity of "Scriptural narrative/s".

 

[dejudge]

Correction the Codices have part of the teachings of the Church. As I have shown those Codices didn't exist in a vacuum. You have churchmen saying the earth was a globe because Aristotle was the go to for their cosmology..

Please, stop your nonsense.

You seem to have no idea that the teachings of Aristotle were regarded as heresy in Christian writings.

Aristotle is listed as a teacher of heresies in Hippolytus "Refutation of All Heresies"1.17.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/050101.htm

Refutation of All Heresies 1.17

Aristotle, who was a pupil of this (Plato), reduced philosophy into an art, and was distinguished rather for his proficiency in logical science, supposing as the elements of all things substance and accident; that there is one substance underlying all things, but nine accidents...

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/050110.htm

Refutation of All Heresies 10.3

Ocellus, however, the Lucanian, and Aristotle, derive the universe from five principles; for, along with the four elements, they have assumed the existence of a fifth, and (that this is) a body with a circular motion; and they say that from this, things celestial have their being....