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Merged Henri van Breda - family murders / Did he do it?
- Thread starter Octavo
- Start date
Octavo
Illuminator
Apologies for the lack of coverage, but I have been taken up with other things recently.
The defense is laying out their case and the facts revealed so far certainly raise some doubts. Here are the key points (full article linked below)
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/henri-van-breda-back-in-court-20170502-5
The defense is laying out their case and the facts revealed so far certainly raise some doubts. Here are the key points (full article linked below)
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/henri-van-breda-back-in-court-20170502-5
Octavo
Illuminator
So, no drugs in his system although reports indicate his breath smelled of alcohol. Blood found on the wall nearby. It's not exactly the most stunning defense yet, but it might just have legs. I guess we'll see.
Anyone willing to speculate on the little we know so far?
Anyone willing to speculate on the little we know so far?
Octavo
Illuminator
Botha for the defense is crossing Kleinhans (one of the cops). Some interesting sparring.
Defense accuses investigator of making up his mind about the scene before investigating. Asks why the police talked to the media about smelling alcohol on his breath when the blood tests revealed nothing.
Botha now bringing up previous history of break-ins at the estate.
Botha: we have evidence from 2002 till incident that 190 different crimes happened on De Zalze. That's 24 break ins.
EDIT:
On the stand is the security guard on duty that night for the estate. He confirms (and has geotagged & timestamped reports to back him up) that he checked on the security fence 5 times during his shift and did not find anything wrong at any point. The electric fence is reportedly very high tech and would have alerted the guard to anyone attempting to climb it.
Defense accuses investigator of making up his mind about the scene before investigating. Asks why the police talked to the media about smelling alcohol on his breath when the blood tests revealed nothing.
Botha now bringing up previous history of break-ins at the estate.
Botha: we have evidence from 2002 till incident that 190 different crimes happened on De Zalze. That's 24 break ins.
EDIT:
On the stand is the security guard on duty that night for the estate. He confirms (and has geotagged & timestamped reports to back him up) that he checked on the security fence 5 times during his shift and did not find anything wrong at any point. The electric fence is reportedly very high tech and would have alerted the guard to anyone attempting to climb it.
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Chris_Halkides
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2009
- Messages
- 12,956
Both are good points. Tunnel vision (confirmation bias) is a clear problem in homicide and arson investigations IMO. Are there rules which govern what the police can and cannot say to the media?
Ampulla of Vater
Illuminator
I'd like to know more about the blood found outside. I'm not sure it can overcome the evidence from the prosecution, but I would like to know more about it.
Thank you for updating!
Octavo
Illuminator
There are some regulations, but in general the cops may speak to the media about their area of operation of they want to. Full rules are available if you Google this :
STANDING ORDER (GENERAL) 156 MEDIA COMMUNICATION IN THE SOUTH AFRICAN ...
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Octavo
Illuminator
We will have to see, but it already looks a bit like the media lapped up the cops statements and rushed to paint Henri as the only possible culprit. I'll be very interested to see how the rest of his defense plays out
Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Octavo
Illuminator
Day 5 & 6
Things got interesting in yesterdays afternoon session!
The guard on duty that night continued with his testimony, stating that he tested the alarm several times that night, everything was working and that there were no alarms triggered.
Combrink for the defense says he has a report from the security company stating that indeed the alarm did go off that night. Three times...
Full article available here.
This morning (day 6), the state has called the second security guard on duty that night. Testimony is boring stuff, basically emphasizing how secure the estate is - builders must be fingerprinted, patrol cars on the estate, blah, blah. The state's implication that the place is tighter than fort knox is wearing a bit thin on me personally, but there you go.
On the cross, Combrink asks if someone could get over the (electrified) fence using insulation. Guard says it sounds risky. Combrink points out that there were 20 police reports between 2014 & 2015 with zero arrests made. Guard says he thinks he remembers one arrest.
Do we detect the first unraveling of the state's case?
Bwahahaha... the state requests a postponement to review the evidence. The defence objects, but Judge Desai grants the request.
Court has been adjourned to Monday morning!
Live reporting available here
ETA1: Fence referred to is electric fence, hence the need for insulation to scale it
ETA2: After tea testimony added
ETA3: State requests postponement
ETA4: Formatting & apologies for the ratty post
Things got interesting in yesterdays afternoon session!
The guard on duty that night continued with his testimony, stating that he tested the alarm several times that night, everything was working and that there were no alarms triggered.
Combrink for the defense says he has a report from the security company stating that indeed the alarm did go off that night. Three times...
Full article available here.
This morning (day 6), the state has called the second security guard on duty that night. Testimony is boring stuff, basically emphasizing how secure the estate is - builders must be fingerprinted, patrol cars on the estate, blah, blah. The state's implication that the place is tighter than fort knox is wearing a bit thin on me personally, but there you go.
On the cross, Combrink asks if someone could get over the (electrified) fence using insulation. Guard says it sounds risky. Combrink points out that there were 20 police reports between 2014 & 2015 with zero arrests made. Guard says he thinks he remembers one arrest.
Live reporting - defence said:
Do we detect the first unraveling of the state's case?
Live reporting - defence said:
Bwahahaha... the state requests a postponement to review the evidence. The defence objects, but Judge Desai grants the request.
Court has been adjourned to Monday morning!
Live reporting available here
ETA1: Fence referred to is electric fence, hence the need for insulation to scale it
ETA2: After tea testimony added
ETA3: State requests postponement
ETA4: Formatting & apologies for the ratty post
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Octavo
Illuminator
Sorry, was on my phone when I posted this and stuggled to copy a PDF link, because my phone kept opening it in the PDF viewer and the 2 hour window for edits is long gone, but here it is anyway:
http://r2k.org.za/wp-content/uploads/SAPS_Standing_Order_156.pdf
Ampulla of Vater
Illuminator
Very interesting! Muchas gracias for updates, seriously. I come here to see what's been going on in court.
Octavo
Illuminator
Day 7
Summary
A fairly boring day by most accounts. The security manager for the estate took the stand to once again stress the secure nature of the estate. The defence did their best to poke holes, pointing out deficiencies in the security and using previous security reports which were not acted upon which indicate the estate was perhaps not as secure as is being made out.
Cast
Rossouw: De Zalze Estate security manager.
Botha: Advocate for the defence.
Galloway: Prosecutor.
Highlights
According to the patrol report of that night, the security officers completed their patrols as is required.
A report from Thorburn Security - De Zalze's security company - now being discussed. It says that according to an interview with the controller, the system was checked for actual activations for the night before and morning of the murder
Four incidents were confirmed. These were not true alarms, she says. These were followed up on; there was a power drop, means there could later be a problem with the system.
People said they had heard a car speeding; there were no complaints reported the night. Suspect it could be the person who delivers the newspapers.
Rossouw concedes that entry is possible if someone activates fence - with a branch, for example - at a zone, and enters at the already activated fence and runs into the property, alarm would be triggered.
Judge Desai asks if it would be possible to dig a tunnel. Rossouw says one would have seen signs of this. There were no signs of this, nor footprints, damage or wires being cut.
According to report, about 35% of the fence under CCTV cameras. Vast areas could not be seen by the cameras. The camera system did not change between 2012 and the night of the murders.
The report reads that CCTV camera footage is inadequate, Botha says.
Botha asks if she saw there were more than the four "alarm ons" on the report. She says she did.
26 January at 1:08 - first alarm on. What activated this? Rossouw says when a fence test is done, that is when the alarm is activated. It is logged
Did you check that it's alarm tests?
Rossouw: no I didn't do that personally.
Rossouw says she can't confirm what causes these activations.
At 01:41 a patrol was conducted. Both who were on duty denied that they had been there, Botha says. Rossouw says she can't recall. Galloway objects, says both witnesses said if was long ago and they couldn't remember everything.
Full article available here
Summary
A fairly boring day by most accounts. The security manager for the estate took the stand to once again stress the secure nature of the estate. The defence did their best to poke holes, pointing out deficiencies in the security and using previous security reports which were not acted upon which indicate the estate was perhaps not as secure as is being made out.
Cast
Rossouw: De Zalze Estate security manager.
Botha: Advocate for the defence.
Galloway: Prosecutor.
Highlights
According to the patrol report of that night, the security officers completed their patrols as is required.
A report from Thorburn Security - De Zalze's security company - now being discussed. It says that according to an interview with the controller, the system was checked for actual activations for the night before and morning of the murder
Four incidents were confirmed. These were not true alarms, she says. These were followed up on; there was a power drop, means there could later be a problem with the system.
People said they had heard a car speeding; there were no complaints reported the night. Suspect it could be the person who delivers the newspapers.
Rossouw concedes that entry is possible if someone activates fence - with a branch, for example - at a zone, and enters at the already activated fence and runs into the property, alarm would be triggered.
Judge Desai asks if it would be possible to dig a tunnel. Rossouw says one would have seen signs of this. There were no signs of this, nor footprints, damage or wires being cut.
According to report, about 35% of the fence under CCTV cameras. Vast areas could not be seen by the cameras. The camera system did not change between 2012 and the night of the murders.
The report reads that CCTV camera footage is inadequate, Botha says.
Botha asks if she saw there were more than the four "alarm ons" on the report. She says she did.
26 January at 1:08 - first alarm on. What activated this? Rossouw says when a fence test is done, that is when the alarm is activated. It is logged
Did you check that it's alarm tests?
Rossouw: no I didn't do that personally.
Rossouw says she can't confirm what causes these activations.
At 01:41 a patrol was conducted. Both who were on duty denied that they had been there, Botha says. Rossouw says she can't recall. Galloway objects, says both witnesses said if was long ago and they couldn't remember everything.
Full article available here
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Ampulla of Vater
Illuminator
It seems that if the crime had been perpetrated by someone other than Henri, that person or persons would have had to have known which parts were not covered by CCTV, in order to avoid them. This would point to an inside job of sorts.
I suppose the most likely explanation is still Henri himself.
Octavo
Illuminator
Agreed. I think the defense is doing a good job of showing reasonable doubt so far.
I hope that the forensics will be more conclusive, but given the state of our crime labs and perennial underfunding, I'm not going to bet on it.
I think one of the articles had a map of the estate. I'll see if I can find it and post it tomorrow, so we can plot what routes an intruder could have to have taken and how plausible that looks given the other houses in the estate should have been more of less equally likely to be the target.
Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Octavo
Illuminator
Day 8
Summary
The defense continues their cross of Rossouw, the estate manager. Security footage from the night is played and the defense shows that at least 5 cars entered the estate that night without anything being logged. There are also 3 hours of CCTV footage missing.
The defense is doing a good job of sowing doubt about the overall security at the estate.
Cast
Rossouw: De Zalze Estate security manager.
Botha: Advocate for the defence.
Galloway: Prosecutor.
Highlights
3:17 - a white car pulled up to the gate. No record of it on the logs
4:19 - a guard takes down the registration number of a taxi. No record of it in the logs. Rossouw says if it is staff, they would have had an access card.
At 4:29 another vehicle enters, without being stopped. No record on the logs.
Statement from gate security guard said it was a quiet night and from 23:00 after restaurant closed, no other vehicles entering or exited.
This is clearly incorrect, Botha says.
5:25 - a bakie with a canopy enters. No record of it.
Botha says procedure wasn't followed in logging entering vehicles. Rossouw says this is possible.
It seems there are three hours missing from this footage. (in ref to cctv cameras)
Photos taken in 2013 of guards sleeping at the gates part of evidence handed up by Botha
Footage shows about 5 vehicles entered Klein Zalze night of #vanbreda murders and not logged
Article
Summary
The defense continues their cross of Rossouw, the estate manager. Security footage from the night is played and the defense shows that at least 5 cars entered the estate that night without anything being logged. There are also 3 hours of CCTV footage missing.
The defense is doing a good job of sowing doubt about the overall security at the estate.
Cast
Rossouw: De Zalze Estate security manager.
Botha: Advocate for the defence.
Galloway: Prosecutor.
Highlights
3:17 - a white car pulled up to the gate. No record of it on the logs
4:19 - a guard takes down the registration number of a taxi. No record of it in the logs. Rossouw says if it is staff, they would have had an access card.
At 4:29 another vehicle enters, without being stopped. No record on the logs.
Statement from gate security guard said it was a quiet night and from 23:00 after restaurant closed, no other vehicles entering or exited.
This is clearly incorrect, Botha says.
5:25 - a bakie with a canopy enters. No record of it.
Botha says procedure wasn't followed in logging entering vehicles. Rossouw says this is possible.
It seems there are three hours missing from this footage. (in ref to cctv cameras)
Photos taken in 2013 of guards sleeping at the gates part of evidence handed up by Botha
Footage shows about 5 vehicles entered Klein Zalze night of #vanbreda murders and not logged
Article
Octavo
Illuminator
Day 9
Cast
Siraj Desai: Judge.
Botha: Advocate for the defence.
Combrink: Advocate for the defence.
Galloway: Prosecutor.
Cornelius Andries - Andre - van Breda: Henri's uncle and Martin's brother (Martin being Henri's dad).
Precious Myongane: Domestic worker for the van Breda family.
Summary
Andre starts by describing the family as close-knit, his brother Martin as an honest and successful businessman. Andre and Botha discuss Henri's visit to the house after the murders to collect wine and expensive whiskeys. The domestic worker for the family identifies the axe and knife used in the attacks as ones that were always in the house. On the cross she admits she can't be certain it's the same, but it looks the same. The judge objects to a "toturous" line of questioning.
Highlights
Nothing was missing from the house. Nothing was noted or indications that anything was gone. He couldn't see anything was missing.
Henri fetched some wines and an expensive Japanese whiskey which had sentimental value from the house after the murder.
Domestic worker says she would enter from a side gate. The key was on a piece of string at the gate. She used the back door, which was left unlocked. 'I just opened and entered.'
Shown photo of an axe, cigarettes. She had identified the items - the axe was the same one that had been in the house. Usually stored in a shelf in the scullery where I used to fetch the ironing board
She is now shown exhibit one, the axe, and exhibit 2 - the knife. Myongane says they look the same as what was in the house
She doesn't know what the axe was used for in the past, as she never saw anyone using it. There was a fireplace outside the house.
Combrink is trying to determine if it's the same axe that had been in the pantry. He tells Desai he is testing whether the axe was brought there. Desai says he finds the line of questioning torturous.
Combrink says Marli's ex-boyfriend described it to have a black head and longer handle. The one shown is green.
Desai says it's a very dark green from where he is sitting. Galloway says there is some black on the head.
Media
Image of the alleged murder weapons. Image was deleted, but not before I had a copy. Suspect that it was not meant to be posted.
Article
Cast
Siraj Desai: Judge.
Botha: Advocate for the defence.
Combrink: Advocate for the defence.
Galloway: Prosecutor.
Cornelius Andries - Andre - van Breda: Henri's uncle and Martin's brother (Martin being Henri's dad).
Precious Myongane: Domestic worker for the van Breda family.
Summary
Andre starts by describing the family as close-knit, his brother Martin as an honest and successful businessman. Andre and Botha discuss Henri's visit to the house after the murders to collect wine and expensive whiskeys. The domestic worker for the family identifies the axe and knife used in the attacks as ones that were always in the house. On the cross she admits she can't be certain it's the same, but it looks the same. The judge objects to a "toturous" line of questioning.
Highlights
Nothing was missing from the house. Nothing was noted or indications that anything was gone. He couldn't see anything was missing.
Henri fetched some wines and an expensive Japanese whiskey which had sentimental value from the house after the murder.
Domestic worker says she would enter from a side gate. The key was on a piece of string at the gate. She used the back door, which was left unlocked. 'I just opened and entered.'
Shown photo of an axe, cigarettes. She had identified the items - the axe was the same one that had been in the house. Usually stored in a shelf in the scullery where I used to fetch the ironing board
She is now shown exhibit one, the axe, and exhibit 2 - the knife. Myongane says they look the same as what was in the house
She doesn't know what the axe was used for in the past, as she never saw anyone using it. There was a fireplace outside the house.
Combrink is trying to determine if it's the same axe that had been in the pantry. He tells Desai he is testing whether the axe was brought there. Desai says he finds the line of questioning torturous.
Combrink says Marli's ex-boyfriend described it to have a black head and longer handle. The one shown is green.
Desai says it's a very dark green from where he is sitting. Galloway says there is some black on the head.
Media
Image of the alleged murder weapons. Image was deleted, but not before I had a copy. Suspect that it was not meant to be posted.
Article
Octavo
Illuminator
Day 10
Cast
Siraj Desai: Judge.
Botha: Advocate for the defence.
Galloway: Prosecutor.
James Reade-Jahn: Marli's ex-boyfriend.
Nicholas Steyn: Police Captain (28 years on the force)
Summary
An interesting morning. Both Henri and Marli's romantic interests at the time take the stand. Henri's gf describes the family as normal and well-adjusted. Marli's boyfriend (James) spends longer in the box, also describing the family as close and happy. James remembers the family axe as having a black head, not the green headed axe recovered from the scene.
Police Captain Steyn is next to take the stand. He indicates the scene did not appear to be a robbery as nothing was disturbed or taken. He relates how calm Henri was. Defense gets Steyn to concede that people respond to shock in wildly different ways.
Court adjourned until Monday.
Highlights
James Reade-Jahn on the witness stand.
His family knew the Van Bredas, says they were family friends. They were dating at the time of the family's murders. He was 16 in 2015.
Saw them as a normal family. All seemed to have good relationships with one another, a few arguments, as with all families. But besides that, nothing detrimental to the family.
The axe: earlier in 2014, I walked into the house after school and Martin had bought an axe. I saw if a few times after that in garage. The axe I saw was 40 - 50cm long, light brown handle, black top with silver blade. When I saw the picture, the blood on the axe made it look very similar. Distorted the colour and made it seem black.
He is shown exhibit A - he recognises shape and size, but from his recollection head of axe was black. Back to the axe. Reade-Jahn says the axe he remembers was black. Exhibit is green.
Police Captain Steyn on the stand.
Scene was not deurmekaar (turned upside-down/messy/mixed up). Usually a house robbery would see items thrown out of cupboards, etc
His experience says cellphones, laptops and small valuables would be taken. These were all still in the house. Strange they would come into house and not take anything.
Investigated to see forced entry. Couldn't find anything at that time.
The person would have had to have blood on his hands. If he jumped over wall there would be blood, but none. Also no shoe print.
Steyn now relates Henri's account from that morning. Steyn interviewed him in an ambulance. Henri fought with attackers, fainted, awoke, googled emergancy services.
There were no robberies or murders at De Zalze before this.
Botha on the cross for Steyn: Although there were no signs of an intruder escaping, there is a possibility, Botha asks. Steyn agrees. Botha says a blood spatter expert had been on scene and said he cant exclude that the blood spatter landed on side wall due to object being carried past the area. There was no blood on Henri's socks, Botha says. Steyn agrees. There was blood on his boxer shorts.
Some people become hysterical, some cry ,others don't, some are quiet, Adv Botha says to Steyn. He agrees.
Botha says Henri had so many injuries it couldn't fit on the J88. Among them were knobs on his face, various cuts and a bruise under his knee.
Article
Cast
Siraj Desai: Judge.
Botha: Advocate for the defence.
Galloway: Prosecutor.
James Reade-Jahn: Marli's ex-boyfriend.
Nicholas Steyn: Police Captain (28 years on the force)
Summary
An interesting morning. Both Henri and Marli's romantic interests at the time take the stand. Henri's gf describes the family as normal and well-adjusted. Marli's boyfriend (James) spends longer in the box, also describing the family as close and happy. James remembers the family axe as having a black head, not the green headed axe recovered from the scene.
Police Captain Steyn is next to take the stand. He indicates the scene did not appear to be a robbery as nothing was disturbed or taken. He relates how calm Henri was. Defense gets Steyn to concede that people respond to shock in wildly different ways.
Court adjourned until Monday.
Highlights
James Reade-Jahn on the witness stand.
His family knew the Van Bredas, says they were family friends. They were dating at the time of the family's murders. He was 16 in 2015.
Saw them as a normal family. All seemed to have good relationships with one another, a few arguments, as with all families. But besides that, nothing detrimental to the family.
The axe: earlier in 2014, I walked into the house after school and Martin had bought an axe. I saw if a few times after that in garage. The axe I saw was 40 - 50cm long, light brown handle, black top with silver blade. When I saw the picture, the blood on the axe made it look very similar. Distorted the colour and made it seem black.
He is shown exhibit A - he recognises shape and size, but from his recollection head of axe was black. Back to the axe. Reade-Jahn says the axe he remembers was black. Exhibit is green.
Police Captain Steyn on the stand.
Scene was not deurmekaar (turned upside-down/messy/mixed up). Usually a house robbery would see items thrown out of cupboards, etc
His experience says cellphones, laptops and small valuables would be taken. These were all still in the house. Strange they would come into house and not take anything.
Investigated to see forced entry. Couldn't find anything at that time.
The person would have had to have blood on his hands. If he jumped over wall there would be blood, but none. Also no shoe print.
Steyn now relates Henri's account from that morning. Steyn interviewed him in an ambulance. Henri fought with attackers, fainted, awoke, googled emergancy services.
There were no robberies or murders at De Zalze before this.
Botha on the cross for Steyn: Although there were no signs of an intruder escaping, there is a possibility, Botha asks. Steyn agrees. Botha says a blood spatter expert had been on scene and said he cant exclude that the blood spatter landed on side wall due to object being carried past the area. There was no blood on Henri's socks, Botha says. Steyn agrees. There was blood on his boxer shorts.
Some people become hysterical, some cry ,others don't, some are quiet, Adv Botha says to Steyn. He agrees.
Botha says Henri had so many injuries it couldn't fit on the J88. Among them were knobs on his face, various cuts and a bruise under his knee.
Article
Ampulla of Vater
Illuminator
Thank you, Octavo!
Immensely!
Immensely!
That axe is green, not black. It is clearly green and the handle is hardly light brown, it is blonde.
What that means I don't know but if it has to be black to suit the prosecution it isn't. It is a good thing you got the picture Octavo. The colour of the desk looks true.
Earlier we hear Henri was not on drugs. His plan is hopeless if he also regards the property as secure, and unable to be breached. And his catalogue of injuries odd if self inflicted.
What that means I don't know but if it has to be black to suit the prosecution it isn't. It is a good thing you got the picture Octavo. The colour of the desk looks true.
Earlier we hear Henri was not on drugs. His plan is hopeless if he also regards the property as secure, and unable to be breached. And his catalogue of injuries odd if self inflicted.
Octavo
Illuminator
I'm glad people find it interesting. Doesn't hurt to boost my abysmal post count either
I agree, the axe is clearly green, not black. I've got to say that my initial prediction about the trial is starting to look fairly accurate. Given the initial media reports it seemed like a slam dunk case, just like Dewani and Pistorious, so obviously, he'll be aquitted and we'll all lose our minds.