Merged Henri van Breda - family murders / Did he do it?

[Octavo]

You have to bump him off and the wife, who might start screaming (any screams heard from neighbouring property? How about signs of a break-in?) and then the other male and then the sister. I can imagine a lot of commotion. The layout of the house showing where everybody slept would be interesting.

I've not heard reports of screaming, however police have confirmed there are no signs of a break in.

And the killer used and left behind a new axe. Hmm. Are guns hard to come by in SA? I guess an axe is quieter so long as you can be sure about the no screaming part and you aren't too squeamish. Is it easy to kill four people with an axe? Do you need some training?

The latest reports indicate that the axe was recently sharpened. It's unclear if that means the axe was actually old and just recently sharpened or if the axe was bought recently and then sharpened or what.

There are also unconfirmed reports that the police are close to an arrest and further reports that prosecutors may offer institutionalisation at a state psychiatric facility. All of this is rumour though - the news report is weakly sourced.

 

[Dissolution]

You have to bump him off and the wife, who might start screaming (any screams heard from neighbouring property? How about signs of a break-in?) and then the other male and then the sister. I can imagine a lot of commotion. The layout of the house showing where everybody slept would be interesting.

And the killer used and left behind a new axe. Hmm. Are guns hard to come by in SA? I guess an axe is quieter so long as you can be sure about the no screaming part and you aren't too squeamish. Is it easy to kill four people with an axe? Do you need some training?

I could be wrong, but I'm sure that I read somewhere that the wife and daughter were found together on a balcony of the property, while the two male relatives were found inside the house.
If the two men were asleep and the two women weren't, then it might've made things easier for the killer.

Looks like quite a large building, so a layout would definitely help, I agree.

Isn't killing with a hand held weapon regarded as a more personal thing?
It would be interesting to know what the relationships were like between family members, if that's the case.

 

[Octavo]

And the killer used and left behind a new axe. Hmm. Are guns hard to come by in SA? I guess an axe is quieter so long as you can be sure about the no screaming part and you aren't too squeamish. Is it easy to kill four people with an axe? Do you need some training?

Just to come back to this: for a criminal with connections in the townships or the seedier parts of town, guns are no problem. For a 20 year old, living with his folks on a golf estate in Stellenbosch... Not so much.

I wouldn't be surprised if there were guns in a safe in that house belonging to the dad though.

I would imagine that chopping to death 3 people would require little more than a reasonable level of fitness.

Maybe that's why he waited so long to call the police. Needed to take a shower and cool down....

 

[anglolawyer]

Just to come back to this: for a criminal with connections in the townships or the seedier parts of town, guns are no problem. For a 20 year old, living with his folks on a golf estate in Stellenbosch... Not so much.

I wouldn't be surprised if there were guns in a safe in that house belonging to the dad though.

I would imagine that chopping to death 3 people would require little more than a reasonable level of fitness.

Maybe that's why he waited so long to call the police. Needed to take a shower and cool down....

What did he do with his clothes? They need to not have everybody else's blood on them unless I suppose he says he tried to help everyone in which case the blood pattern needs to be consistent with helping rather than battering, although I can think of several cases where supposed experts have testified that innocently explained patterned were incriminating. Sion Jenkins for example (handy tip: if you find Rolfe's PM box full, just type a post on the forum and spell that name 'Sian' and she will show up in about 8 seconds to correct you ).

 

[Rolfe]

Just think "Sean" or "Shaun", but in a Welsh accent. That do?

 

[anglolawyer]

See?

 

[Octavo]

Not a lot of news on the Henri van Breda case. The latest is that Henri has outlined to family the basic events of the night.

According to police sources, Henri recounted how his brother, Rudi, 22, was attacked first. His father, Martin, 54, then rushed to defend Rudi, but was also murdered. His mother, Teresa, 55, was then killed, while his younger sister, Marli, 16, was critically injured.

It emerged that Henri only phoned emergency services four hours after the attack. He told family members that he had been knocked out in the attack and only regained consciousness after 07:00 on the morning of 27 January.

Marli is out of intensive care and under heavy police guard. Police are waiting for her to recover a bit more before taking a full statement.

In slightly more salacious news, a possible motive has finally been unearthed. The suspicion now is that Henri is a crystal meth addict (meth is referred to here as "tik")

Certainly the idea that he committed these murders in a strung-out, paranoid, delusional state could plausibly account for his actions. I'm not an expert of Meth addiction, but I've heard it can be incredibly destructive.

 

[Samson]

Not a lot of news on the Henri van Breda case. The latest is that Henri has outlined to family the basic events of the night.



Marli is out of intensive care and under heavy police guard. Police are waiting for her to recover a bit more before taking a full statement.

In slightly more salacious news, a possible motive has finally been unearthed. The suspicion now is that Henri is a crystal meth addict (meth is referred to here as "tik")

Certainly the idea that he committed these murders in a strung-out, paranoid, delusional state could plausibly account for his actions. I'm not an expert of Meth addiction, but I've heard it can be incredibly destructive.

I will be surprised if a more cogent theory emerges. Crystal meth is a catastrohic substance here in New Zealand with many seemingly psychopathic crimes directly attributable. The thread will extend because the daughter will recover, and the case will be quickly solved I reckon.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Hmm.

Shades of Jeffrey MacDonald, knocked unconscious while his family was slaughtered.

I'm trying to keep an open mind here, but...

 

[Octavo]

Hmm.

Shades of Jeffrey MacDonald, knocked unconscious while his family was slaughtered.

I'm trying to keep an open mind here, but...

Yeah, barring some really strange circumstances, this is looking fairly open and shut. Even the SA police shouldn't be able to royally screw this one up.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Yeah, barring some really strange circumstances, this is looking fairly open and shut. Even the SA police shouldn't be able to royally screw this one up.

Oh sure they can, possibly to the point where the kid gets away with it. If he wants to get by with it, he needs to keep his mouth shut and not try to explain what happened. That was Jeffrey MacDonald's biggest mistake.

Even so, MacDonald almost got by with murdering his entire family because the cops borked the investigation. MacDonald's lawyer was able to show that the crime scene was substantially altered by police activity, and that police mishandled their investigation of alternative suspects. A US Army court threw up their hands and let MacDonald go.

Years later, a federal prosecutor named Brian Murtagh pieced the facts together and got a conviction. (Rolfe could tell you a thing or two about Murtagh in connection with Pan Am 103. He's a tenacious man.)

We will see how this case plays out. The kid seems to have the support of his extended family, who may be more comfortable with the narrative of an intruder than of a family member who went berserk. They may want to believe him, but niggling doubts will creep in...

 

[Rolfe]

Don't start me on Murtagh. He may have been right on some occasions, maybe even many occasions, I wouldn't know about that, but he was one of the bad guys in the Pan Am 103 shocker, that's for sure.

 

[anglolawyer]

Any news about his head injury? I have only seen references to cuts and bruises on his arms. I'm not medically qualified or anything but I think there should be a bump on his head somewhere.

 

[Octavo]

Any news about his head injury? I have only seen references to cuts and bruises on his arms. I'm not medically qualified or anything but I think there should be a bump on his head somewhere.

No, I've seen no further detail and it seems incongruous. Henri claims the axe was thrown at his head. There is no quote from indicating it hit him, although it is a reasonable conclusion to leap to, given his next reported words are always that he was knocked out. The medical examiner has only ever referred to the cuts and bruises on his arm.

The news on this story seems to have gone cold - there's nothing new in the local rags.

This is the most recent article I can find and it's really just a rehash of what we already know from previous reports...
http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2015/02/15/tik-twist-in-stellenbosch-axe-murder-case

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

No, I've seen no further detail and it seems incongruous. Henri claims the axe was thrown at his head. There is no quote from indicating it hit him, although it is a reasonable conclusion to leap to, given his next reported words are always that he was knocked out. The medical examiner has only ever referred to the cuts and bruises on his arm.

The news on this story seems to have gone cold - there's nothing new in the local rags.

This is the most recent article I can find and it's really just a rehash of what we already know from previous reports...
http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2015/02/15/tik-twist-in-stellenbosch-axe-murder-case

Could be a wealthy family has lawyered up and they want to avoid scandal.

 

[Octavo]

Could be a wealthy family has lawyered up and they want to avoid scandal.

It appears that is exactly what's happened. Henri's legal team is limiting the cops access to him apparently.

Also, it appears that Marli's condition, although stable, is still very serious. She's not talking yet or displaying any emotion, but is able to recognise family members from photos and is able to move both sides of her body.

News report here

It seems a real possibility that Marli won't be able to shed any light on the murders if she has suffered brain damage

Additionally the report mentions that Henri did not appear high or intoxicated when interviewed by police the morning of the murders...

Given Henri's family have pretty deep pockets, without her testimony I'm not sure a conviction could be secured. There must be loads of evidence that we haven't seen yet.

 

[Samson]

It appears that is exactly what's happened. Henri's legal team is limiting the cops access to him apparently.

Also, it appears that Marli's condition, although stable, is still very serious. She's not talking yet or displaying any emotion, but is able to recognise family members from photos and is able to move both sides of her body.

News report here

It seems a real possibility that Marli won't be able to shed any light on the murders if she has suffered brain damage

Additionally the report mentions that Henri did not appear high or intoxicated when interviewed by police the morning of the murders...

Given Henri's family have pretty deep pockets, without her testimony I'm not sure a conviction could be secured. There must be loads of evidence that we haven't seen yet.

Octavo, this has many shades of David Bain. I hope answers are not so elusive.
How tragic for the surviving daughter, that she may not ever be in a position to illuminate.

As Anglolawyer notes, these South African cases are fascinating, but this is not one for voyeurs. Let's hope the girl recovers, tells the story, and has a near normal life.

 

[anglolawyer]

Octavo, this has many shades of David Bain. I hope answers are not so elusive.
How tragic for the surviving daughter, that she may not ever be in a position to illuminate.

As Anglolawyer notes, these South African cases are fascinating, but this is not one for voyeurs. Let's hope the girl recovers, tells the story, and has a near normal life.

What's fascinating is the distinctive sociological setting of all these cases. Italy is a far cry from SA which is very different from England etc. In SA we have a large and dangerous criminal class, an encircled white minority, truly awful police and a strong and robust legal tradition with an independently-minded judiciary. IMO this strongly colours these cases and enriches their instructive quality.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

It appears that is exactly what's happened. Henri's legal team is limiting the cops access to him apparently.

Also, it appears that Marli's condition, although stable, is still very serious. She's not talking yet or displaying any emotion, but is able to recognise family members from photos and is able to move both sides of her body.

News report here

It seems a real possibility that Marli won't be able to shed any light on the murders if she has suffered brain damage

Additionally the report mentions that Henri did not appear high or intoxicated when interviewed by police the morning of the murders...

Given Henri's family have pretty deep pockets, without her testimony I'm not sure a conviction could be secured. There must be loads of evidence that we haven't seen yet.

This case may smolder for awhile, and we may see some interesting developments. From all I have read, it seems only remotely possible Henri did not commit this crime. If his relatives wish to keep a scandal subdued, they must keep him subdued. The challenge might substantially elevate household stress levels. What is the protocol when an ax murderer becomes a long-term guest? Should one offer a glib excuse for installing a deadbolt on one's bedroom door, or is it better to say nothing?

It's also possible someone will wake up in the middle of the night and think, "you know, it doesn't seem right that cousin Henri got away with killing his family," and take to social media with their concerns.

The police may be content to bide their time, and let this family live with the project they have taken on.

 

[anglolawyer]

This case may smolder for awhile, and we may see some interesting developments. From all I have read, it seems only remotely possible Henri did not commit this crime. If his relatives wish to keep a scandal subdued, they must keep him subdued. The challenge might substantially elevate household stress levels. What is the protocol when an ax murderer becomes a long-term guest? Should one offer a glib excuse for installing a deadbolt on one's bedroom door, or is it better to say nothing?

It's also possible someone will wake up in the middle of the night and think, "you know, it doesn't seem right that cousin Henri got away with killing his family," and take to social media with their concerns.

The police may be content to bide their time, and let this family live with the project they have taken on.

The forensics ought to make it open and shut. It's actually very odd that he has not been arrested - no head injury (I assume), history of serious drug abuse, no sign of forced entry and, very likely, an incriminating crime scene one way or another. Those aren't things that take weeks of analysis usually. So what's going on?