Split Thread Heart transplant not for muslins

The Atheist said:
What they say is irrelevant, like idiot fundy christians, muslins believe what their imams tell them to believe. I showed you were even the Dr Mohiuddin recognises the issue, so a white bloke on the internet should be able to figure that out.



:dl:

Ah, they just happen to be muslins. Just like the filth who kill their daughters for kissing a boy daddy hasn't sold her to.
Click to expand...

Yes, just as they happen to be Christian in the Christian countries where FGM is prevalent.

The push for FGM does not come from their various religions, it predates both Islam and Christianity.

Genital mutilation is an abhorrence but if you want it to end you need to go to the cause. In regards to FGM it has been difficult to tackle because it is embedded in the culture and nearly always enforced by women in a given culture.

It's not as clear cut in regards to honour killings, but we do see these murders in diverse cultures with varied religions, for instance in cultures primarily Hindu. But I do think in regards to these murders religion can play a part.
 
Pixel42 said:
As llwyd points out there are many good, decent people who are good, decent Moslems without holding the beliefs I find objectionable, which reinforces the view that such beliefs are freely chosen.
Click to expand...

Knowing that your chosen religion includes leaders and followers who support or condone the killing, maiming, and abusing of innocent people, and then deciding "I will ignore those things and just enjoy the parts I like" does not make a person good or decent. On the contrary, it makes them hypocrites who, by their own inaction, allow the abuses to continue. I find it rather difficult to have any respect for the adherents of any religion. And I have no particular problem with The Atheist's views or posts on the topic.
 
Pixel42 said:
For the record: if I encounter someone who believes that I, being a woman, should be denied education and only allowed to leave the house if covered head to foot and accompanied by a male relative, I am going to take exception to both the belief and the person choosing to hold it. I don't think that makes me a bigot.
Click to expand...

Of course it doesn't make you a bigot. Islam can be a terrible tool often used by those seeking power to gain and then keep power - look at "the" Taliban in Afghanistan.
 
The Don said:
OTOH The Atheist seems to ascribe the most extreme views of a minority of Muslims to all Muslim.
Click to expand...

Minority perhaps, but a minority that numbers in many millions. All muslims continue to follow a religion whose own literature/writings/scripture is obscure enough to allow such obscene interpretations. And consider that perhaps those violent interpretations are, as its originators intended, the "correct" ones. Perhaps islam is a violent religion and those adherents who claim it to be a "religion of peace" are just hiding their heads in the sand.
 
Steve said:
Minority perhaps, but a minority that numbers in many millions. All muslims continue to follow a religion whose own literature/writings/scripture is obscure enough to allow such obscene interpretations. And consider that perhaps those violent interpretations are, as its originators intended, the "correct" ones. Perhaps islam is a violent religion and those adherents who claim it to be a "religion of peace" are just hiding their heads in the sand.
Click to expand...

History does show that whatever religion a society is said to follow it can be used for evil, personally I'm of the opinion that religion is often used as a convenient fig-leaf for terrible behaviour, behaviour that should not be accepted.
 
Pixel42 said:
For the record: if I encounter someone who believes that I, being a woman, should be denied education and only allowed to leave the house if covered head to foot and accompanied by a male relative, I am going to take exception to both the belief and the person choosing to hold it. I don't think that makes me a bigot.
Click to expand...

Accosting such people when they are at the park with their families doesn't make you a bigot either; it just makes you rude.
 
Darat said:
Yes, just as they happen to be Christian in the Christian countries where FGM is prevalent.

The push for FGM does not come from their various religions, it predates both Islam and Christianity.

Genital mutilation is an abhorrence but if you want it to end you need to go to the cause. In regards to FGM it has been difficult to tackle because it is embedded in the culture and nearly always enforced by women in a given culture.

It's not as clear cut in regards to honour killings, but we do see these murders in diverse cultures with varied religions, for instance in cultures primarily Hindu. But I do think in regards to these murders religion can play a part.
Click to expand...

More and more I think religion is an effect of the human condition, not a cause of certain human behaviors. Human collectives are going to end up doing certain things, or doing other things in opposition. Religion is part of the narrative that grows up around those activities and behaviors, the Just So Story that "explains" why we're doing those things.
 
Steve said:
Maybe for you. Prophecy aint worth ****.
Click to expand...

self-fulfilling prophecy
...is the sociopsychological phenomenon of someone "predicting" or expecting something, and this "prediction" or expectation coming true simply because the person believes or anticipates it will, and the person's resulting behaviors align to fulfill the belief.
Click to expand...

Someone predicts that atheists attract disdain. Atheist responds by attracting disdain. Prediction comes true!
 
The Atheist said:
I'm a bad person to take to parks in West Auckland in the heat of summer, because I'll go up to women and tell them they don't need to wear a burka and are only doing so because their goat-******* husband has them under his control.
Click to expand...

arthwollipot said:
Have you ever actually asked someone why they're wearing it? What was their reply?
Click to expand...


I think it is easy to see this too simply. To those on the outside many make the mistake of failing to understand the difficulty women face when they have an abusive husband. "Why doesn't she just leave him?" is the plaintive cry...... It's not the easy.

The husband in a religious community may be even harder to cross. The community she lives in may be vastly different from the wider community surrounding them. The bonding within may be difficult to overcome.
 
Thor 2 said:
I think it is easy to see this too simply. To those on the outside many make the mistake of failing to understand the difficulty women face when they have an abusive husband. "Why doesn't she just leave him?" is the plaintive cry...... It's not the easy.

The husband in a religious community may be even harder to cross. The community she lives in may be vastly different from the wider community surrounding them. The bonding within may be difficult to overcome.
Click to expand...

I agree entirely; it's Stockholm Syndrome from birth.

Which is why I think someone saying there is a way out might be news to them.
 
Thor 2 said:
I think it is easy to see this too simply. To those on the outside many make the mistake of failing to understand the difficulty women face when they have an abusive husband. "Why doesn't she just leave him?" is the plaintive cry...... It's not the easy.

The husband in a religious community may be even harder to cross. The community she lives in may be vastly different from the wider community surrounding them. The bonding within may be difficult to overcome.
Click to expand...

Totally agree. We see this in all close-knit communities within a larger community. Simply saying "Oh it's the UK so a Muslim wife can choose to wear a burka or not" ignores the reality a wife may face if she chooses different to what her husband and community expects. And often the most pressure (away from violence) will be from other women in her community. It's an incredible complex issue.
 
Darat said:
Totally agree. We see this in all close-knit communities within a larger community. Simply saying "Oh it's the UK so a Muslim wife can choose to wear a burka or not" ignores the reality a wife may face if she chooses different to what her husband and community expects. And often the most pressure (away from violence) will be from other women in her community. It's an incredible complex issue.
Click to expand...

That seems like an incredibly simple issue. Shunning and dismissal from a community you would like to be in is not coercion.

easy peazy
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom