Have you ever been sexually assaulted?

[Professor Yaffle]

I also found this case, but I don't know what the result of the trial was.

Charges against Zoe Bernadette Dawes, 25, of Miles in south-east Queensland, arise from the alleged rape of a 24-year-old man at a party at Miles on August 16 last year.

It's been alleged the man was held at gunpoint, stripped, tied down and straddled by Dawes, and that a "Slim Jim" or penis pump, or an injection, was used to give the man an erection.

It was further alleged the man was then made to swallow tablets to wipe his memory.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-22261044.html

 

[Darat]

As Admin: Given that this is a section that is viewable to anyone and is included in search engines and given this thread's very personal subject I am willing to make an exception and move it to a non-public section but still treat it as if all the rules of the public sections applied.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Probably a good idea.

Oh, and thank you, Agatha.

 

[ysabella]

Thank you for sharing your own experience, Ysabella. I am really glad that you managed to fight off your attacker.

One of the first steps to any fight, including in fighting against rape, is understanding; those like you aid in understanding, so they aid in the fight of cases like this.

A daughter hero to her mother; I can't think of much else to be proud about.

Thanks
I think she was also thankful towards my older brother - he's the one who gave me that canister of pepper spray.

When I hear "technically-illegal", though, I have to wince. What made the pepper spray illegal? The facility's own rules and regulations, the law?

The law. This was in California in 1991 or so. The state had outlawed pepper spray for citizens, which was a fairly new thing and not well understood, but it became fully legal later on.
When an officer came to hear what had happened, I explained and offered to surrender my pepper spray to him. He didn't comment, and he didn't take it.

 

[Ashles]

As a new poster, I hesitate to disagree with someone who is clearly an established poster here.

Please do not think that.
Some people here actually seem to think that after they reach a certain number of posts it is impossible that they can be wrong about anything or ever change their minds.

They are an embarassment to a skeptical website.

Welcome.

 

[my_wan]

I have been raped twice. Once by a stranger, once by my ex-husband after we separated. After some of the things claimed on this thread, I don't wish to share more than that, other than to say in my experience as a 'victim' and as a sometime counsellor on a rape advice line, Skeptigirl's assertions are, in the main, wrong. I don't have the links to studies, though I note some have been posted.

Very sad but hold your head high. Sex can be a very wonderful thing and often leads to even more precious things. What we do with our sexuality belongs to us as individuals and the theft of that goes way beyond anything else that can be stolen. To make the claim that our biology betrays our desires is just plain wrong. Even if someone has rape fantasies it does not excuse revictimizing the victim. A rape fantasy is not even close to the theft of that fantasy.

I'm not trying to suggest anything about you personally. I'm merely going to extremes here to demonstrate that nothing, not physiological responses nor personal fantasies, justifies the theft of a very personal choice. These notions that prior fantasies and/or physiological responses alleviates the guilt of a thief only serves to intensify the victims conflict, and often destroys much of what you have to offer those you respect enough to share yourself with in the future on a very personal level. Don't let it!!! It hasn't been that many years since it was often socially accepted that a woman that danced at a party was asking for it. You or no other victim has any more to be ashamed of than a dancer.

As a new poster, I hesitate to disagree with someone who is clearly an established poster here. But I think Skeptigirl has done a huge disservice to both men and women who have experienced rape or sexual assault, whether as minors or as adults. Stating as fact that men cannot have erections unless aroused, and can't be raped by a woman, and that women cannot experience arousal or orgasm during rape, just serves to intensify the guilt and shame that some victims feel because what happened to them didn't conform in every respect to an outsider's perception of what rape and sexual assault is.

Yes we have members at the top of the game here. We tend to be iconoclast here though. This makes it against the rules to be afraid of taking on a well established poster . You are certainly under no obligation to share details of very personal experiences and conflicts. Just don't be afraid of the stature of a poster here.

I apologise for my mangled English, anger and frustration has taken away my ability to think and type coherently tonight.

I can imagine, although I failed to see it in your English. Take a deep breath and know that you have stood up with a strength to be respected. It is an irony that we often feel the weakest when our strengths are at it's best. It seems that the suffering of many are alleviated somewhat by your strength. My hat is off to you.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

When I hear "technically-illegal", though, I have to wince. What made the pepper spray illegal? The facility's own rules and regulations, the law?

Technically, there's milder forms of defense spray which are still more than powerful enough, meaning that pepper spray is simply not necessary.

If a dose of mild defense spray is enough to turn an assailant away in horror, why go pepper spray?

 

[Zelenius]

I have been raped twice. Once by a stranger, once by my ex-husband after we separated. After some of the things claimed on this thread, I don't wish to share more than that, other than to say in my experience as a 'victim' and as a sometime counsellor on a rape advice line, Skeptigirl's assertions are, in the main, wrong. I don't have the links to studies, though I note some have been posted.

As a new poster, I hesitate to disagree with someone who is clearly an established poster here. But I think Skeptigirl has done a huge disservice to both men and women who have experienced rape or sexual assault, whether as minors or as adults. Stating as fact that men cannot have erections unless aroused, and can't be raped by a woman, and that women cannot experience arousal or orgasm during rape, just serves to intensify the guilt and shame that some victims feel because what happened to them didn't conform in every respect to an outsider's perception of what rape and sexual assault is.

I apologise for my mangled English, anger and frustration has taken away my ability to think and type coherently tonight.

I'm so sorry for those terrible experiences. I wish all the pain could go away. I know a woman who was raped by her father and her cousin many times, and although she turned out very well, she was scarred for life. All sex to her is painful(emotionally and physically) due to her horrible experiences so this has severely limited how intimate she can get with men. She is a teacher now and has helped women and girls who have had similar experiences. Thank you for sharing your story and helping others. Peace and blessings to you.

 

[luchog]

Androgyny is just as much a crime as misogyny. And I don't care what the sex of the person was who said that, it's still androgyny.

The word you're looking for is "misandry". Androgyny is something else entirely.

 

[Ausmerican]

The word you're looking for is "misandry". Androgyny is something else entirely.

Androgyny is sexual ambiguity is it not? Girly looking boys and boyish looking girls?

 

[luchog]

There's a whole lot of evidence against positions I haven't expressed!

Straw man^WP: "A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position."

Screaming something more loudly doesn't make it more true, it just makes it a very loud lie. You're still refusing to acknowledge considerable legal and medical documentation that refutes your bigotted assertions.

Was your friend an adult? Because I have repeatedly reminded the people here that I was not talking about statutory rape which clearly can occur female on male.

He was legally an adult, and had just joined the Navy. She was roughly 10-15 years older (I don't think he knew exactly how old she was). He was small, slightly-built, and somewhat effeminate. She was of a larger build and overweight (a "Bremelo" for those familiar with the type); and very aggressive. There were, to my recollection, no drugs involved, although she'd been drinking (he didn't drink, still doesn't afaik). She simply forced him down, straddled him, and manually stimulated him until he was erect enough to penetrate her. According to him, he "didn't fight back hard enough" -- ie, didn't actually become violent -- because 1) he was raised in strong Southern tradition, and striking a woman for any reason was simply not done; and 2) he was pretty confused and stunned by the entire thing, because everyone know that sort of thing just doesn't happen, that women are always passive and men always aggressive. Plus, the fact that she was twice his size and drunk made it highly unlikely he could have fought back effectively.

Any suggestion on his part that he was at all unwilling was typically met with incredulous amusement or accusations of being queer (a fairly serious charge in a redneck military town). On top of that, there's the attitude, common to the military especially, that any female sexual attention is a good thing, even relatively unattractive females; and any objection to such attention means there's something seriously wrong with you. So there were very few people he could talk to about it, and it sort of festered in him for quite a few years, making personal relationships very difficult for him.

Okay, now here's the part where your misandrist bigotry kicks in, and you accuse either me or my friend of fabrication or exaggeration.



edited to fix quoting error and grammar.

 

[luchog]

Androgyny is sexual ambiguity is it not? Girly looking boys and boyish looking girls?

More or less; with a connotation of asexuality.

 

[luchog]

Yes we have members at the top of the game here. We tend to be iconoclast here though. This makes it against the rules to be afraid of taking on a well established poster . You are certainly under no obligation to share details of very personal experiences and conflicts. Just don't be afraid of the stature of a poster here.

Indeed, some of our longest-standing and most prolific posters have earned reputations of being very... unskeptical on certain issues; and extremely dogmatic as well. To the point where one of them has become a very popular in-joke.

 

[Euromutt]

Technically, there's milder forms of defense spray which are still more than powerful enough, meaning that pepper spray is simply not necessary.

Can you cite any examples? The only other things I can think of are agents like CN and CS, which have been supplanted by OC to some extent because they are more toxic (CN) or more difficult to deliver effectively (CS).

If a dose of mild defense spray is enough to turn an assailant away in horror, why go pepper spray?

That's a reasonable question insofar as your premise is correct, but I'm far from convinced it is. There's mounting evidence in the US that OC may be losing its effectiveness as a riot control and self-defense agent because more criminals have been exposed to it before, either during arrest and/or while in prison; consequently, OC is losing much of its psychological shock value, and that preparation better enables the target to keep functioning in spite of the physiological effects.

In other words, OC isn't enough to "turn an assailant away" anymore, let alone "in horror," and that in turn does not bode well for the effectiveness of less effective sprays.

 

[gtc]

That's a reasonable question insofar as your premise is correct, but I'm far from convinced it is. There's mounting evidence in the US that OC may be losing its effectiveness as a riot control and self-defense agent because more criminals have been exposed to it before, either during arrest and/or while in prison; consequently, OC is losing much of its psychological shock value, and that preparation better enables the target to keep functioning in spite of the physiological effects.

In other words, OC isn't enough to "turn an assailant away" anymore, let alone "in horror," and that in turn does not bode well for the effectiveness of less effective sprays.

There have been a few reports in Australian newspapers about violent methamphetamine users who have not responded to pepper spray even when used by trained police (I think they use CS spray). Private citizens aren't allowed to carry it in Australia, so I suspect it is the drug use not repeated exposure that is leaving them 'immune' to the spray.

 

[Morrigan]

Some further examples for skeptigirl:

Woman charged with raping man:

Doesn't count, he was asleep and it was oral sex, no penetration. It's not really rape unless it's specifically like in luchog's friend's story, you know, and we all know that's impossible so he must have made that up.

 

[JoeyDonuts]

In other words, OC isn't enough to "turn an assailant away" anymore, let alone "in horror," and that in turn does not bode well for the effectiveness of less effective sprays.

I can vouch for this. In the course of my military training, I had to go through an OC qualifier course, and then 2 refreshers every two years or so. The first time I got the sauce it hurt like the damn dickens. Every time I got it thereafter, it was a little less painful once I learned to manage it. You can fight through the pain, and there are some folks it doesn't hit at all until a minute or so when the sweat takes it into their eyes. Stream placement is a big issue with OC. If you get the forehead, it's going to take a bit for it to have an effect. If you absolutely saturate your target, you're going to get some of the effects too. The other thing to remember is that OC, like any sort of defensive weapon, can be used against its operator. If your assailant is under the influence or one of those rare people that OC just doesn't do anything to, you're going to be screwed. Unfortunately most defensive weapons run into this problem as well. Stun guns and kubotan-style keychains require you to close the distance to your attacker. They're good when he's already on you, but in this case unarmed grappling and escape techniques are probably more effective. Tazers, firearms, and OC require the operator to be able to discharge the weapon accurately under duress. As for me, I can put a 4-inch grouping at 25 yards with my FNP .40 on the range, but that's a heck of a lot different than a real encounter where I'm not going to be ready for it and probably really freaked out as well.

Mr. Miyagi said it best. "Best defense - No be there." Weaponry of any sort is no substitute for intelligence and situational awareness. If you make yourself out to be an easy target, you've already lost half the battle. This is not to say anyone should live in fear, but everyone who is planning on being on their own at night should develop some kind of street smarts. Learn to be absolute jerk to bums and anyone who comes up to you unsolicited at night or anytime really. When you're in a situation where you feel you might be at risk, such as walking to your vehicle alone (which is when a surprising amount of assaults occur) do not be talking on your phone, fishing for your keys, or anything that could distract you from keeping your head up and scanning 360 degrees. If something doesn't look right, it's probably not. In any case no security guard in the world is going to refuse a request to escort you to your vehicle unless he/she is supposed to be guarding a specific area. It's not being patronized, it's being smart.

And if you do decide to carry a defensive weapon, practice with it over and over again. You carry a gun, you go to the range and you practice firing it over and over again, and not just in a target stance. Do it off-handed, strong handed, in different positions if the range allows. You carry pepper spray, you test it in your backyard on something. This will familiarize you with the spray pattern and characteristics of the weapon, and have the added benefit of exposing you to some of the effects of OC. There's no real cheap way to get confident with a tazer, so if you're going to carry one, you need to go through a couple of barb packs just so you can get accurate with it.

I could go on and on but I won't. It's just that I run into too many of my female friends who think that simply carrying a weapon of some sort is going to somehow insulate them from any kind of a assault.

 

[JoeyDonuts]

Doesn't count, he was asleep and it was oral sex, no penetration.

This doesn't happen nearly as often as I'd like.

OW!! Okay okay! That was inappropriate and I'm sorry.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Mr. Miyagi said it best. "Best defense - No be there."

My Sensai agrees. "Your best defence is your feet because you can try and out run anything except a bullet." Followed by "Your best weapon is your brain and remaining calm enough to use it."

 

[Lonewulf]

The word you're looking for is "misandry". Androgyny is something else entirely.

I thought we covered this already.

Anyways, I'll just acknowledge that yes, you're right.