Have you ever been sexually assaulted?

[Pardalis]

BTW, Skeptigirl, if you look at the results of the poll, don't you feel your OP has been answered to your satisfaction?

What are your thoughts on the results?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

And as noted below, she's still refusing to acknowledge the overwhelming evidence against her.

There's a whole lot of evidence against positions I haven't expressed!

Straw man^WP: "A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position."

Well done on presenting the evidence BTW. I was sexually molested as a child by both a male and female together (a neighbor several years older, and his sister), and I have a friend who was outright raped by a larger and stronger older woman, I have avoided responding to skeptigirl, because I know I cannot respond civilly in the face of her dismissive bigotry. Particularly since she displays astonishing ignorance for someone who has claimed to be a medical professional.

Was your friend an adult? Because I have repeatedly reminded the people here that I was not talking about statutory rape which clearly can occur female on male.

 

[tyr_13]

That leaves this one:This has been brought up ad nauseum in gumboot's poll. But the connection from this kind of erection to a woman forcing a man to have one then successfully raping him has not been demonstrated to actually happen.

This author is speculating as are the people in this thread that because X happens under Y circumstances X also happens under Z circumstances. I never said X doesn't happen under Y circumstances. I said show me evidence it actually does happen under Z circumstances. Since when is an article like this evidence?

What is wrong with you? That is under the male rape myth list because it happens and rape victims have to deal with it. Professionals have to council men that this has happened to. Just because it isn't addressing a specific person doesn't mean anything. It does happen under your 'Z' circumstances, which is why it is on that list.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

BTW, Skeptigirl, if you look at the results of the poll, don't you feel your OP has been answered to your satisfaction?

What are your thoughts on the results?

My "OP' had to do with Fiona's thread about men assuming a high percent of rape accusations are false.

For a forum of skeptics people here sure are making a lot of false assumptions about what I've posted.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

What is wrong with you? That is under the male rape myth list because it happens and rape victims have to deal with it. Professionals have to council men that this has happened to. Just because it isn't addressing a specific person doesn't mean anything. It does happen under your 'Z' circumstances, which is why it is on that list.

Nothing is wrong with me. I understand the premise here. But when looking for evidence women ever actually forced men to have an erection then raped them, NO EVIDENCE COULD BE FOUND.

I'm being attacked for a not so PC position. Shame on me for merely saying show me the evidence this actually occurs.

 

[Pardalis]

Skeptigirl, you created a poll, so what are your thoughts on the results?

Why did you create the poll if not to discuss the results?

 

[tyr_13]

Nothing is wrong with me. I understand the premise here. But when looking for evidence women ever actually forced men to have an erection then raped them, NO EVIDENCE COULD BE FOUND.

I'm being attacked for a not so PC position. Shame on me for merely saying show me the evidence this actually occurs.

What exactly will you accept as evidence? Medical literature, professional analysis, personal anecdotes don't matter to you, so what are you looking for? Pictures? Video?

You're being attacked for a blatantly bigoted and doublestandarded position.

 

[Legend]

I started with an open mind, but when the only evidence that turned up was a blog entry about a news event that looks to have been non-existent and an old well known typhoid AIDS Mary urban myth, I began to question the claims. I also pointed out the incredulity that forced erections are likely.

That has been turned into the straw man claiming I was referring to unwanted erections, not the same thing, and that I am biased, also a false claim. I was inclined to believe if any evidence had been forthcoming. And I certainly don't have an issue that only women are vulnerable to sexual assaults.

I am being attacked essentially for holding to the skeptical position which apparently is not the PC position in this thread. How dare I suggest inequality here.

This just proves you're inexperience (due to gender).

If you were a guy, you'd understand. You're a female who is not trying to understand.

How dare I suggest ignorance here.

Alex.

EDIT: Stop victimising yourself. You're not being attacked for Christ's sake.

 

[tomwaits]

For an erection to occur it is only necessary to stimulate the penis, not the guy attached to it.

As far as the overpowering of a man by a woman being hard to believe goes I have only one thing to say:

Woody Allen? Meet Chyna.

Woah....did you go to law school? This is the exact example my professor has used multiple times.

 

[Zelenius]

So again, straw man debating here. I said I was excluding this scenario. It may be a fantasy of some men to be tied up on a bed and raped (not to be confused with actual unwanted forcible rape). But it would seem there is no evidence this ever occurs. All I've said is show me the evidence.

Yes, men have fantasies like that. Women have rape fantasies too - http://blogs.psychologytoday.com/blog/brainstorm/200805/why-do-women-have-erotic-rape-fantasies

These fantasies are much discussed in feminist literature. In these fantasies, the women are getting raped by men, often violently. Some may involve rape by women. This in no way means they want to be raped, or that if a woman who has frequent rape fantasies gets raped she finally got her wish. This in no way should trivialize the suffering of rape victims. I've had numerous dreams and fantasies in which I've fallen off of tall buildings, only to wake up upon hitting the ground. This doesn't mean I want to fall off a tall building.

You again use strange words like "unwanted" and "forcible" before the word "rape", as if rape can be consensual. By definition, rape is always forced. That is why "forced rape" is redundant and confusing.

You seem to want to trivialize the suffering of adult male rape victims of female rapists by denying they even exist. Evidence has already been presented that it does happen, however rare it might be. For some reason you want to ignore the evidence.

 

[fingersmith]

Was your friend an adult? Because I have repeatedly reminded the people here that I was not talking about statutory rape which clearly can occur female on male.

What is it about the phrase "outright raped" that made you think luchog was talking about statutory rape? luchog was hesitant to post because of your perceived "dismissive bigotry" and this is your response?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

First, what is not in question:

• That statutory rape, female on male occurs. That was never in question.
• That men can be anally raped. That was never in question.
• That a man can have sex while intoxicated and if it wasn't wanted it is just as much rape as it is when it occurs the other way around. That was never in question.
• That a man can be raped while asleep. I find this one hard to believe but I'll give it the benefit of a doubt. Maybe there are some really sound sleepers out there. I'd hate to be such a person when a smoke alarm went off.

What is in question:

• That a man can be forced to have an erection and then raped. Meaning awake, not intoxicated, and not coerced by a child molester.

The article on myths of male rape mentioned blackmail or extortion. Fine that might be possible. Holding a gun to a man's head and saying, do it or else? If you can be forced by blackmail or extortion then I suppose this has to be possible too.

But physically forcing an erection then raping the guy? Everyone here is arguing it is possible without finding any evidence it actually ever occurs. I will summarize the evidence presented so far:

• A news account of a man who claimed he was asleep when the act was initiated (this isn't the act in question)
• Anecdotal reports of men being intoxicated and date raped (this isn't the act in question)
• An article of HIV infected women gang raping for revenge in South Africa. (That is a known HIV myth and the same source also reports regularly on witches cursing people)
• A blog article about 2 women convicted of raping a man. (But it appears to be another made up story, the judge doesn't exist and there are no primary news articles to be found.)
• A counseling web page on male rape myths. (Which has no evidence of any actual cases occurring.)
• And a whole thread of anecdotes about unwanted/untimely erection experiences. (Again, that this occurs is not in question.)

So you all can continue with your personal attacks and straw men battles against what you imagine I have said. I'll stick with my not PC but very skeptical position until someone posts some actual evidence there are women out there forcing adult sober awake men to have erections then raping them. And when someone posts actual evidence this occurs, I'll have no issue then that it does occur. Because all I have said is I had an open mind until no evidence could be found.

 

[tyr_13]

So you want a narrowly defined example of a woman raping a male without a weapon, coercion, drugs, sleep, or alcohol, but through only physical force? And that has to be an adult male? Does rope and duct tape count as weapons for your very specific scenario? How about men who have been knocked out by assault? Do then count?

Maybe we are all confused because none of us could possibly see how that matters compared to being threatened into sex, being drugged into sex, being blackmailed into sex, etc.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

So you want a narrowly defined example of a woman raping a male without a weapon, coercion, drugs, sleep, or alcohol, but through only physical force? And that has to be an adult male? Does rope and duct tape count as weapons for your very specific scenario? How about men who have been knocked out by assault? Do then count?

Maybe we are all confused because none of us could possibly see how that matters compared to being threatened into sex, being drugged into sex, being blackmailed into sex, etc.

The point was it seems to be being taken for granted that a woman can rape a man in this way. I find it rather implausible but was and still am willing to believe it happens if anyone can post some evidence it actually does.

For me the issue is why is everyone so willing to take the PC position here when we looked for evidence and it wasn't there? Everyone has turned this into a BS attack as if I said anything else. That also is quite an eye opener. I find it really rude that people are so quick to assume what I've said without ever bothering to actually look.

As far as it not mattering, you're right. And if there weren't so many straw men attacks here that would be a lot more obvious.

 

[Pardalis]

So you want a narrowly defined example of a woman raping a male without a weapon, coercion, drugs, sleep, or alcohol, but through only physical force? And that has to be an adult male? Does rope and duct tape count as weapons for your very specific scenario? How about men who have been knocked out by assault? Do then count?

Maybe we are all confused because none of us could possibly see how that matters compared to being threatened into sex, being drugged into sex, being blackmailed into sex, etc.

Exactly, she has redefined the topic of this thread to a very specific and rare set of circumstances where women could never really be found at fault, in any quantitative sense. If Skeptigirl's point is that therefore women are less violent then men she has successfully contrived the possibilities to make it impossible to argue otherwise.

The thread was about sexual assault, and the results show that a surprising number of men have been sexually assaulted by women in their lifetime. This should suffice the needs of the OP.

 

[Dragoonster]

Nothing is wrong with me. I understand the premise here. But when looking for evidence women ever actually forced men to have an erection then raped them, NO EVIDENCE COULD BE FOUND.

No, you claimed it wasn't possible at all, not just that it hasn't happened. It's been well-demonstrated that it's possible to have an unwanted erection, due to environmental factors, physiological responses, manual stimulation without conscious desire, and even from the stress of combat. What about the situation where a female ties up a male makes any of these non-desire reasons for erections to occur impossible?

In the other thread it was demonstrated that some erections are difficult or impossible to "think away", no matter how much someone wants to. Why in the rape situation would the man be able to think it away, particularly when/if the intent of the attacker is to induce an erection? Not only are you ignoring evidence, you seem to be ignoring logic. It's really quite amazing (and disturbing) to see since you're very rational in other areas.

I meant to include this possibility before, so here's another--the female rapist slips a lot of viagra pills into the male's drink or forces him to take it. Do you think in this instance it would be possible to induce an unwanted erection during a rape?

I'm being attacked for a not so PC position. Shame on me for merely saying show me the evidence this actually occurs.

Why would crisis centers who deal with rape victims on a daily basis dispute the myth that you say is true? What motivation do they have above their primary one of helping victims? Are all of the centers' directors doing this because of "PC"?

And do you think fostering an expectation of confidentiality may be a reason why their websites aren't peppered with multiple detailed rape accounts of victims who've called them?

 

[my_wan]

What is in question:

• That a man can be forced to have an erection and then raped. Meaning awake, not intoxicated, and not coerced by a child molester.

Answer: Yes. Should I get extremely graphic and explain various methods? There are several methods besides the obvious. Men can also be forced to ejaculate without an orgasm. We can even learn how to have an orgasm without ejaculation.

These facts about our own sexuality is often unknown to us. Erections etc. often create an even greater shame and detrimental psychological effects because of this. Getting an erection is the number one reason men rarely report male on male rape, much less female on male. Male rapist apparently also often successfully make their female victims have an orgasm. This also tends to reduce the chances of being reported.

In my experience strippers tend to think they understand everything about men yet tend to understand the least.

 

[Zelenius]

Skepticgirl:

If a woman forcibly penetrates an unwilling adult male(drugged or not drugged, conscious or unconscious but he can't escape and doesn't want to be penetrated) through the anus with a dildo or some other object of penetration, is this rape, yes or no? Because arousal is not consent, it doesn't matter if his penis is erect or not.

Thank you.

 

[Lonewulf]

What is in question:

* That a man can be forced to have an erection and then raped. Meaning awake, not intoxicated, and not coerced by a child molester.

This has been answered multiple times.

Yes.

Why do you have any reason to believe they can't be? You ignore multiple variables that have been repeated again and again, and you continue to claim it's impossible; either you're dishonest or... well... no, still dishonest. But now I'm wonder if you're being dishonest on purpose.

So you all can continue with your personal attacks and straw men battles against what you imagine I have said. I'll stick with my not PC but very skeptical position until someone posts some actual evidence there are women out there forcing adult sober awake men to have erections then raping them. And when someone posts actual evidence this occurs, I'll have no issue then that it does occur. Because all I have said is I had an open mind until no evidence could be found.

"Very skeptical" meaning the kind where you change the goal posts, refuse to answer studies posted, and then lie about what other people have and have not done.

Very impressed, I am.

 

[PhantomWolf]

The point was it seems to be being taken for granted that a woman can rape a man in this way. I find it rather implausible but was and still am willing to believe it happens if anyone can post some evidence it actually does.

Here is someone that claims it has happened to him

ETA:
Here is his actual account of the incident