Harshest sentence ever?

[The Atheist]

Shows poor impulse control. Not good for a teacher.

I don't disagree at all that it's bad for a teacher, but the impulse control is seriously lacking whether it's a week or a year, isn't it?

Hope it doesn't happen to your kids because there are no safeguards. You know this.

I have no idea what means. I can't imagine any of my kids being a teacher, let alone screwing the kids, and if one of them willingly screwed a teacher, I wouldn't be calling the cops.

You have expressed similar abhorrence for our system as me often enough.

Kristy McNichol is next.

Never heard of her - expand.

I agree. OK the sentence is disproportionate considering right now the dads of the boys are(out of earshot of wives etc)probably bragging about how there boys got lucky.

Bingo.

And in the case of most dads, wishing it had been them.

The fact of the matter is these boys are unlikely to be mentally suffering and(whatever they tell the parents)are probably feeling pleased with themselves.

And doubled!

As has been pointed out a guy teacher would be called a peadophile-period.

Only in USA.

In most countries, it is not a criminal offence.

A long prison sentence was inevitable-and correct.

What sentence would you advocate then, if the victims had been like yourself, aged 13?

1000 years?

 

[Nihilianth]

Harshest sentence ever? Not even close.

How about a child victim of rape, stoned to death?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/nov/03/somalia-rape-amnesty

Then there's the justice meted out by Daesh/ISIS/ISIL (delete as appropriate).

Now twenty-two years is a significant period of incarceration, but as others have said, if the gender of the perpetrator and victims were reversed would we even be having this discussion?

Wow, that just made me a bit queasy. No word in any language to adequately describe the horrifying evil of religious nutcases.

 

[SezMe]

I don't disagree at all that it's bad for a teacher, but the impulse control is seriously lacking whether it's a week or a year, isn't it?

I don't want to wander too far off-topic but don't think so. A week? Maybe she'd only had him in class a few times or just seen him in the hallway. Then jumped his bones: poor impulse control. Had been around him in various settings (class, hallway, after school sports, etc.) and had judged him to be a real hunk. Or maybe the opposite; that he was a nerd with potential and just needed his ashes to be hauled. In any case, made plans to shag him and then put that plan into place over a year's time: nothing to do with impulse control at all.

 

[Samson]

I have no idea what means. I can't imagine any of my kids being a teacher, let alone screwing the kids, and if one of them willingly screwed a teacher, I wouldn't be calling the cops.

I was digressing into NZ cases, nothing to do with sex.

Kristy McNichol McDonald is next.

....................................

Never heard of her - expand.

...........................................

You should read this with a vomit bucket handy.


http://nostalgia-nz.blogspot.co.nz/search/label/Scott Watson - not getting a go.
That link doesn't work properly, but it is the Watson pardon denial.

It took two years to write her garbage, Still, she is pretty enough. No doubt has a fine family of outstanding citizens.

http://featherstonchambers.co.nz/rly.

 

[HumanityBlues]

There was a famous study that demonstrated 14 and 15 year olds who consented to sex with adults suffered no statistical psychological damage later in life, much less damage akin to "being mauled by a large dog", the justification for such tremendous sentences.

The Senate voted 99-0 to censure this scientific paper, and called for investigations. A blue ribbon panel took its time then issued a judgement: no major flaws in the study, but found the political meddling "troublesome".

The skeptic magazines covered this in detail years ago.

This, of course, does not address the issue of a position of power and possible coercion. But it does suggest asking the 17 year olds if they were coerced and felt bad about it before ladling on a punishment equivalent to attempted murder, or murder in a European country.

See, that's a much more interesting argument than just saying other developed countries have a lower age of consent.

 

[skeptichaggis]

I don't disagree at all that it's bad for a teacher, but the impulse control is seriously lacking whether it's a week or a year, isn't it?



I have no idea what means. I can't imagine any of my kids being a teacher, let alone screwing the kids, and if one of them willingly screwed a teacher, I wouldn't be calling the cops.



Never heard of her - expand.



Bingo.

And in the case of most dads, wishing it had been them.



And doubled!



Only in USA.

In most countries, it is not a criminal offence.



What sentence would you advocate then, if the victims had been like yourself, aged 13?

1000 years?

1000 years-no. I think a five year sentence ,parole given after eighteen months. That combined with the loss of her career would be more than sufficient. Again its her position that makes this serious. 18 months is a VERY long time to spend in prison,especially the harsh American system.

 

[Arcade22]

Again its her position that makes this serious.

Unless it's established that she used her position of authority to pressure or coerce them into having sex anything but a fine or couple of months imprisonment is completely excessive. The mere fact that she was in a position of authority should definitively not lead to any long prison sentence especially since we are dealing with a case where there's no actual harm done.

Again when it comes to rule breaking like this where the amount of harm is negligible the legal consequences, if any, should likewise be negligible.

 

[skeptichaggis]

Unless it's established that she used her position of authority to pressure or coerce them into having sex anything but a fine or couple of months imprisonment is completely excessive. The mere fact that she was in a position of authority should definitively not lead to any long prison sentence especially since we are dealing with a case where there's no actual harm done.

Again when it comes to rule breaking like this where the amount of harm is negligible the legal consequences, if any, should likewise be negligible.

I agree that with the exception of the boys thinking waheey there is no real harm done. However any sexual relationship between a teacher and pupil must be skewed in favour of the teacher. I don't know about america but here in Scotland if a teacher becomes very close to a particular student in university or other adult educational facilitiy then they are supposed to proffesionaly distance themselves from that pupil.
Its not just about the sex part. Other stuff like favouritism also must be considered. They open themselves up to blackmail from other students who find out.

Of course I personnaly think the 22year long sentence had more to do with hypocritical puritanism then any other consideration. The amount of adults-mostly men-that fake shock and(often religious-still fake and hypocritical though) horror just because a woman enjoys sex is ridiculous. They claim a woman's sex bits are for "go forth and multiply"than for female sexual satisfaction. Of course these same pious creeps crawl of to (sometimes child)brothels when no ones looking.

Its not about the sex stuff,and it clearly was consensual sex,its about the position she abused. If she was doing the horizontal tango and two backed Beastie(I'm a poet at heart)with these boys she would probably have had little problem with giving them false test scores.
Cue the boys first day at college. Up in front of the class the teacher says"what was the title of Dantes most famous work",boy answers" everybody poops".

 

[spooky24]

Well, the Reich had a good idea about that. Weekends at spa resorts were planned for members of the Hitler youth and the league of German girls for patriotic pregnancies.

Pamphlets, instruction manuals, adult instructors of both sexes and movies to get in the mood were provided.

Sex between adults and members were common.

No wonder they liked the youth programs so much.

 

[The Atheist]

1000 years-no. I think a five year sentence ,parole given after eighteen months.

The part I'm interested in is why you think it should be a jail offence when it isn't in UK.

 

[HumanityBlues]

There was a famous study that demonstrated 14 and 15 year olds who consented to sex with adults suffered no statistical psychological damage later in life, much less damage akin to "being mauled by a large dog", the justification for such tremendous sentences.

The Senate voted 99-0 to censure this scientific paper, and called for investigations. A blue ribbon panel took its time then issued a judgement: no major flaws in the study, but found the political meddling "troublesome".

The skeptic magazines covered this in detail years ago.

This, of course, does not address the issue of a position of power and possible coercion. But it does suggest asking the 17 year olds if they were coerced and felt bad about it before ladling on a punishment equivalent to attempted murder, or murder in a European country.

Do you have a link to this study?

 

[skeptichaggis]

The part I'm interested in is why you think it should be a jail offence when it isn't in UK.

The British legal system does not dictate my personal opinions, and I never said it does. Furthermore I think you will find a female adult teacher sleeping with fourteen year old students WOULD be arrested. The judge,taking all information into consideration would hand down the sentence. This could involve prison and in 2015 in Britain a similar situation with multiple offences involving multiple pupils probably would lead to jail time.

Again its her position that makes this criminally distasteful not the rumpy-pumpy.

 

[Belz...]

Next time you "don't bother creating a strawman," try not to title your thread "harshest sentence ever" lest you run into someone who understands what real injustice means.

That's "hyperbole", not strawman. And sure, there are worse injustices, but 22 years is excessive. What's the expected outcome of such a long prison sentence ? I mean, she might have gotten a lighter sentence for killing the three of them instead.

 

[Belz...]

This would probably be punished by a fine or maybe a few moths in prison in the civilized world.

Why in the blue hell would you want to jail nighttime butterflies ?

 

[Belz...]

Well, the Reich had a good idea about that. Weekends at spa resorts were planned for members of the Hitler youth and the league of German girls for patriotic pregnancies.

Pamphlets, instruction manuals, adult instructors of both sexes and movies to get in the mood were provided.

Sex between adults and members were common.

No wonder they liked the youth programs so much.

Interesting use of the Godwin, there.

 

[Arcade22]

However any sexual relationship between a teacher and pupil must be skewed in favour of the teacher.

The impression i have gotten is that it's not at all uncommon for teenage students to be far, far more assertive and self-confident than their teachers. Based on that i have a hard time how "any sexual relationship between a teacher and pupil must be skewed in favour of the teacher".

Other stuff like favouritism also must be considered. They open themselves up to blackmail from other students who find out.

And of course the only thing that can be done to reduce the potential harm of something like that is to make a blanket law forbidding people to have sex with others, who are supposedly old and mature enough to assert themselves and be able to say no.

Its not about the sex stuff,and it clearly was consensual sex,its about the 1position she abused.

As far as I'm concerned merely having sex with someone you're teaching, or someone who is you subordinante, does not constitute "abusing ones position". Depending on the circumstances i could easily call it unprofessional and undesirable but for it to reach the level where it should be illegal coercion or pressure that relies on their formal or informal influence or power are need.

 

[The Atheist]

The British legal system does not dictate my personal opinions, and I never said it does.

Of course.

However, having such strong opinions on the subject I'd expect you to be campaigning for change.

Furthermore I think you will find a female adult teacher sleeping with fourteen year old students WOULD be arrested.

Since the boys in question were 17, the relevance of that statement is zero.

Again its her position that makes this criminally distasteful not the rumpy-pumpy.

So if she'd stuck to missionary she'd be ok?

 

[3point14]

What detrimental effects have the victims suffered?

In what way is their life now ruined?

Did they hate the act at the time?

Will it cause them psychological damage going forwards?

 

[Belz...]

Victim blaming !!!!!!

 

[The Atheist]

What detrimental effects have the victims suffered?

They've lost their virginity, a commodity so prized among young men that their marriage, career and even study prospects have been considerably diminished.

In what way is their life now ruined?

They will forever have to re-live the episode when friends and acquaintances raise the subject.

They will live with the spectre forever of someone from their past popping into their lives and saying "Hey, you bonked that hot teacher back in '14!"

Did they hate the act at the time?

They were heard moaning and shouting.

Will it cause them psychological damage going forwards?

Indubitably.

Unless they go backwards.