Hardfire: Szamboti / Chandler / Mackey

[Edx]

Uh, no they won't. They've gotten nowhere.

Im refering to Dawkins' reasons for not debating Creationists.

 

[KJC]

It's also bad strategy to do what your opponent wants you to do and I notice it's the TM that is always calling for one-on-one debate just like the creationists do and I think for the same reason. They have no facts so they must depend on appeals to emotion.

Really? The impression I get is that twoofers are always trying to avoid confrontations with debunkers, and in the rare occassion they do, like when Gage met Mark Roberts, it isn't publicized by the twoof.

 

[Edx]

Really? The impression I get is that twoofers are always trying to avoid confrontations with debunkers, and in the rare occassion they do, like when Gage met Mark Roberts, it isn't publicized by the twoof.

Makes me wonder why he did it at all.

 

[alienentity]

Really? The impression I get is that twoofers are always trying to avoid confrontations with debunkers, and in the rare occassion they do, like when Gage met Mark Roberts, it isn't publicized by the twoof.

Both are true, AFAIK. Truthers will claim that nobody wants to debate them, or 'debunker X' is too chicken to debate, etc.. But they also duck offers and challenges to debate.

I think Mackey hasn't been able to get a response from DRG on his whitepaper yet. I can't remember if there was a debate offered as well.

 

[triforcharity]

Is Agape still alive? The latest report available is 2004 and the last entries in the News and Blog sections are two years old.

The Agape Foundation is still alive. That is where all their donations go, then they are distributed from there. So, there is no real accounting that I have found in their 2007 Form 990 from the IRS.

Sorry for the off topic. PM me if you want more.

 

[R.Mackey]

Both are true, AFAIK. Truthers will claim that nobody wants to debate them, or 'debunker X' is too chicken to debate, etc.. But they also duck offers and challenges to debate.

I think Mackey hasn't been able to get a response from DRG on his whitepaper yet. I can't remember if there was a debate offered as well.

The original reason I wrote the whitepaper was to help Ron Wieck prepare for a debate with Dr. Griffin. I'd originally planned something in the 30-40 page range, but I was unprepared for the sheer depth of deception I found in his book, and my paper grew into a 180-page monster (final version is closer to 300).

When Dr. Griffin got wind of it, he slunk out of the debate.

He's offered no response to it whatsoever. The funniest was when he ran from a hard copy of it in Japan last year. I don't expect him to ever reply, and I certainly don't expect him to fix his errors. It'd be difficult, since literally every single claim he made that I considered turned out to be wrong.

Truthers are following the pattern of the creationists. They all want debate, clamor for debate, set up fake media events and such, but -- this is the key point -- they only want to debate big name people who are unfamiliar with their work. They want to get a guy like Dr. Shyam Sunder on stage so they can blindside him with incoherent crap about nanothermites and exploding ceiling tiles, and then score audience points while Dr. Sunder blinks and tries to figure out if it's a joke, or if he's really talking to someone that stupid. A guy like Mark Roberts who actually knows their spiel and can send them packing, they're usually afraid to go near, and for good reason.

 

[TruthersLie]

Ref,

I am picturing the scene from liar Liar with Jim Carrey beating the carp out of himmself in the bathroom!! Thanks!!!

Tri..

just a simple question...

Why would someone beat this out of themselves?

OH... you mean crap... got it.

 

[alienentity]

The original reason I wrote the whitepaper was to help Ron Wieck prepare for a debate with Dr. Griffin. I'd originally planned something in the 30-40 page range, but I was unprepared for the sheer depth of deception I found in his book, and my paper grew into a 180-page monster (final version is closer to 300).

When Dr. Griffin got wind of it, he slunk out of the debate.

He's offered no response to it whatsoever. The funniest was when he ran from a hard copy of it in Japan last year. I don't expect him to ever reply, and I certainly don't expect him to fix his errors. It'd be difficult, since literally every single claim he made that I considered turned out to be wrong.

Truthers are following the pattern of the creationists. They all want debate, clamor for debate, set up fake media events and such, but -- this is the key point -- they only want to debate big name people who are unfamiliar with their work. They want to get a guy like Dr. Shyam Sunder on stage so they can blindside him with incoherent crap about nanothermites and exploding ceiling tiles, and then score audience points while Dr. Sunder blinks and tries to figure out if it's a joke, or if he's really talking to someone that stupid. A guy like Mark Roberts who actually knows their spiel and can send them packing, they're usually afraid to go near, and for good reason.

Yes, that's right - they want to ambush someone while videoing the whole thing, to catch them off-guard.
My personal favorite of this genre is the priceless reaction of former PM Jean Chretien, who is given a copy of Loose Change, as I recall, and promptly uses it as a coaster.
But then Chretien was a battle-hardened and savvy person. Very, very hard to sneak up on

 

[tsig]

Both are true, AFAIK. Truthers will claim that nobody wants to debate them, or 'debunker X' is too chicken to debate, etc.. But they also duck offers and challenges to debate.

I think Mackey hasn't been able to get a response from DRG on his whitepaper yet. I can't remember if there was a debate offered as well.

Your post is truer to the mark. Lots of challenges, lots of running.

Tony showed up and gets a hat tip for that.

 

[911kongen]

The original reason I wrote the whitepaper was to help Ron Wieck prepare for a debate with Dr. Griffin. I'd originally planned something in the 30-40 page range, but I was unprepared for the sheer depth of deception I found in his book, and my paper grew into a 180-page monster (final version is closer to 300).

When Dr. Griffin got wind of it, he slunk out of the debate.

He's offered no response to it whatsoever. The funniest was when he ran from a hard copy of it in Japan last year. I don't expect him to ever reply, and I certainly don't expect him to fix his errors. It'd be difficult, since literally every single claim he made that I considered turned out to be wrong.

Truthers are following the pattern of the creationists. They all want debate, clamor for debate, set up fake media events and such, but -- this is the key point -- they only want to debate big name people who are unfamiliar with their work. They want to get a guy like Dr. Shyam Sunder on stage so they can blindside him with incoherent crap about nanothermites and exploding ceiling tiles, and then score audience points while Dr. Sunder blinks and tries to figure out if it's a joke, or if he's really talking to someone that stupid. A guy like Mark Roberts who actually knows their spiel and can send them packing, they're usually afraid to go near, and for good reason.

Wow, thats exactly what I think about this, and is the reason why I think You og Roberts should debate them.. not Larry King or something like that! They can make people not knowing about there lies look like fools!

 

[DGM]

Wow, thats exactly what I think about this, and is the reason why I think You og Roberts should debate them.. not Larry King or something like that! They can make people not knowing about there lies look like fools!

I think you missed the point. It's pointless to debate them because no one is really listening and it won't change a thing. Their attention whores, pure and simple.

 

[911kongen]

I think you missed the point. It's pointless to debate them because no one is really listening and it won't change a thing. Their attention whores, pure and simple.

Some one is listening. Griffin and Alex Jones and many more has debated on Fox news and Cnn. Its always them debating someone that dont know anything. The best thing would be if the called peoples lik Mackey to debate them. Not the TV show host debating the Nuts...

 

[DGM]

Some one is listening. Griffin and Alex Jones and many more has debated on Fox news and Cnn. Its always them debating someone that dont know anything. The best thing would be if the called peoples lik Mackey to debate them. Not the TV show host debating the Nuts...

And what has been the effects of these "debates"? Truth-ism is still a no starter and they are always ridiculed by the sane among us.

 

[R.Mackey]

Some one is listening. Griffin and Alex Jones and many more has debated on Fox news and Cnn. Its always them debating someone that dont know anything. The best thing would be if the called peoples lik Mackey to debate them. Not the TV show host debating the Nuts...

This may surprise and alarm you, but I have absolutely no say over who gets scheduled to appear on Fox or CNN. Take it up with them.

 

[liverleef]

The original reason I wrote the whitepaper was to help Ron Wieck prepare for a debate with Dr. Griffin. I'd originally planned something in the 30-40 page range, but I was unprepared for the sheer depth of deception I found in his book, and my paper grew into a 180-page monster (final version is closer to 300).

When Dr. Griffin got wind of it, he slunk out of the debate.

He's offered no response to it whatsoever. The funniest was when he ran from a hard copy of it in Japan last year. I don't expect him to ever reply, and I certainly don't expect him to fix his errors. It'd be difficult, since literally every single claim he made that I considered turned out to be wrong.

Truthers are following the pattern of the creationists. They all want debate, clamor for debate, set up fake media events and such, but -- this is the key point -- they only want to debate big name people who are unfamiliar with their work. They want to get a guy like Dr. Shyam Sunder on stage so they can blindside him with incoherent crap about nanothermites and exploding ceiling tiles, and then score audience points while Dr. Sunder blinks and tries to figure out if it's a joke, or if he's really talking to someone that stupid. A guy like Mark Roberts who actually knows their spiel and can send them packing, they're usually afraid to go near, and for good reason.

Didn't Kevin Ryan do this by seeking to debate college professors that clearly would not likely be familiar with truther woo?

 

[911kongen]

This may surprise and alarm you, but I have absolutely no say over who gets scheduled to appear on Fox or CNN. Take it up with them.

Hmm.. Im a bit disappointed! But why did you crash a spaceship yesterday in to the moon?

 

[Brainster]

The original reason I wrote the whitepaper was to help Ron Wieck prepare for a debate with Dr. Griffin. I'd originally planned something in the 30-40 page range, but I was unprepared for the sheer depth of deception I found in his book, and my paper grew into a 180-page monster (final version is closer to 300).

When Dr. Griffin got wind of it, he slunk out of the debate.

He's offered no response to it whatsoever. The funniest was when he ran from a hard copy of it in Japan last year. I don't expect him to ever reply, and I certainly don't expect him to fix his errors. It'd be difficult, since literally every single claim he made that I considered turned out to be wrong.

Truthers are following the pattern of the creationists. They all want debate, clamor for debate, set up fake media events and such, but -- this is the key point -- they only want to debate big name people who are unfamiliar with their work. They want to get a guy like Dr. Shyam Sunder on stage so they can blindside him with incoherent crap about nanothermites and exploding ceiling tiles, and then score audience points while Dr. Sunder blinks and tries to figure out if it's a joke, or if he's really talking to someone that stupid. A guy like Mark Roberts who actually knows their spiel and can send them packing, they're usually afraid to go near, and for good reason.

Exactly. I always remember going on a Troofer internet radio show for a debate with Bermas. During the show the host (Rob Bishop) mentioned on several occasions that the show was getting record traffic, and that they were having to add a few servers to handle all the listeners.

And I never got invited on a Troofer internet radio show again.

 

[bill smith]

This may surprise and alarm you, but I have absolutely no say over who gets scheduled to appear on Fox or CNN. Take it up with them.

I noticed a post you made which sseems to imply that Mark Boberts beat Richard Gage in a 'Hardfire' debate on 9/11 ? This confuses me somehat as I am only aware of one such debate in which the opposite happened. I attach links to the two parts of the show concerned plus Gravy's own somewhat pathetic response soon afterwards. Is this the same debate ? What a great exmple of the attempted rewriting of history if it is .lol.

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-3685846057748316809 Part 1 14.09.08

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-459844559898426929&hl=en Part 2

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3789539&postcount=128 Biotch,biotch..

 

[TruthersLie]

Edited by Darat: 

Breach of Membership Agreement removed.

Let's keep the tone civil and the posts on topic, please.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LibraryLady

 

[newton3376]

So when is the projected date for the hardfire debate to be posted?