Happy Celebrate Traitors Day!

[ravdin]

George Washington = Jefferson Davis?

No. But there are similarities, especially on issues that have certain posters here up on their high horses.

You speak as if that would make a lick of difference. You'd just handwave it away.

That's as good a way of any of admitting you have no rebuttal.

 

[daredelvis]

How appropriate is it that Obama got this dude freed just in time for traitor day?

You mean this dude?

At the risk of harshing your Two Minute Hate high, it's amazing to see the Pavlovian nature of this right wing freakout. Four months ago, the same people were OUTRAGED that Bergdahl was still a POW. Now, following Cleek's Law to the letter, you're OUTRAGED that Bergdahl's release was secured, because DESERTER!!ELEVENTY!

Who am I kidding. There will be no honest response to this. It will remain like the turd it is, floating in the punchbowl of ODS.

ODS is an opaque cloud impervious to the light of reality.

Exactly.

But what still vexes me is that even if your pathetic attempt at a derail turns out to be true, so what? Do you really compare a kid bailing on a war in a far away place and getting himself captured compares to ALL OUT WAR on the United States? And not just any war, but a war specifically to preserve the right to rape, murder, and plunder a whole race of people and steal their lives from them?

What part of that don't you understand?

This is the real point. How could people still celebrate Jefferson Davies' place in history. As a patriot, or just a human, this holiday is offensive, and outrageous.

Daredelvis

 

[Spindrift]

No. But there are similarities, especially on issues that have certain posters here up on their high horses.

You are right, there are lots of irrelevant similarities. Both are white males. Both are southerners. Both were soldiers. Both haves ties to whiskey. Washington made it, Davis smuggled it into West Point.

There are some relevent differences though. One was the father of his country who privately opposed slavery and freed his slaves upon his death. The other was the leader of a rebellion that killed hundreds of thousands in order to free the slaves.

 

[A'isha]

But what still vexes me is that even if your pathetic attempt at a derail turns out to be true, so what? Do you really compare a kid bailing on a war in a far away place and getting himself captured compares to ALL OUT WAR on the United States? And not just any war, but a war specifically to preserve the right to rape, murder, and plunder a whole race of people and steal their lives from them?

What part of that don't you understand?

Well, to be fair to Brainster, there are all those liberal states who have Bowe Bergdahl Day as a state holiday, the same way Alabama has Jefferson Davis day.

 

[Unabogie]

Well, to be fair to Brainster, there are all those liberal states who have Bowe Bergdahl Day as a state holiday, the same way Alabama has Jefferson Davis day.

Good point. But I also missed another distinction. What Jefferson Davis did was treason. What Bergdahl is accused of is desertion. Those two things are not synonymous.

But that's exactly what a Bowe Bergdahl Day observing hippie would say, huh?




Oh, and a fine Benghazi!!! to you, comrade!

 

[trustbutverify]

This is the real point. How could people still celebrate Jefferson Davies' place in history. As a patriot, or just a human, this holiday is offensive, and outrageous.

Daredelvis

Because they consider the military defense of the institution of slavery to have been a just cause, and wish the Confederacy had won the war?

 

[daredelvis]

Because they consider the military defense of the institution of slavery to have been a just cause, and wish the Confederacy had won the war?

That is the only way to read it.

Daredelvis

 

[ravdin]

You are right, there are lots of irrelevant similarities. Both are white males. Both are southerners. Both were soldiers. Both haves ties to whiskey. Washington made it, Davis smuggled it into West Point.

There are some relevent differences though. One was the father of his country who privately opposed slavery and freed his slaves upon his death. The other was the leader of a rebellion that killed hundreds of thousands in order to free the slaves.

Washington "privately" opposed slavery? Tell that to Oney Judge^WP.

Also, his slaves were not freed on his death. They were freed on Martha Washington's death. Apparently Washington didn't think through what it would be like for his wife, living in a household of slaves looking forward to the day she dies.

 

[ravdin]

Happened to own slaves while living in an area where every rich guy owned slaves.

Compare to a guy who started a war specifically because he wanted to keep slavery.

That's a particularly disgusting apology for slavery. Plenty of George Washington's contemporaries (such as John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, and Alexander Hamilton) knew better.

 

[thaiboxerken]

The south lost. Get over it.

 

[newyorkguy]

The American Revolution is celebrated around the world as a signal moment in the struggle for liberty and equality. IMO for people to be comparing it to the American Civil War is just plain stupid. For me, it's arguing for the sake of arguing.

Why not argue left is right, up is down, ice is hot, fire is cold?

 

[DavidJames]

Why not argue left is right, up is down, ice is hot, fire is cold?

It would depend on if a liberal took an opposing position.

 

[Corsair 115]

Hmmm, maybe a few states with a William T. Sherman holiday will counteract a state with a Jefferson Davis holiday?

 

[Lowpro]

...what have you done A'isha?!

 

[trustbutverify]

Washington "privately" opposed slavery? Tell that to Oney Judge^WP.

Also, his slaves were not freed on his death. They were freed on Martha Washington's death. Apparently Washington didn't think through what it would be like for his wife, living in a household of slaves looking forward to the day she dies.

Davis is being honored for leading a pro-slavery revolt. Why is that an appropriate holiday in a country that views American institutionalized slavery as a national disgrace?

 

[thaiboxerken]

Davis is being honored for leading a pro-slavery revolt. Why is that an appropriate holiday in a country that views American institutionalized slavery as a national disgrace?

It is appropriate in the south, where they long for the days of White Power.

 

[ravdin]

Hmmm, maybe a few states with a William T. Sherman holiday will counteract a state with a Jefferson Davis holiday?

I can get behind a holiday like that!

 

[ravdin]

Davis is being honored for leading a pro-slavery revolt. Why is that an appropriate holiday in a country that views American institutionalized slavery as a national disgrace?

I never said it was. If it were up to me, there wouldn't be a Jefferson Davis holiday anywhere. I'm just pointing out that his transgressions (defending the institution of slavery, separating from the central government's authority) aren't so different from other politicians that are not so controversial to honor.

 

[A'isha]

...what have you done A'isha?!

 

[trustbutverify]

I never said it was. If it were up to me, there wouldn't be a Jefferson Davis holiday anywhere. I'm just pointing out that his transgressions (defending the institution of slavery, separating from the central government's authority) aren't so different from other politicians that are not so controversial to honor.

He's being honored only for his "transgressions". He's being honored for being a slavery zealot; for launching an all out war to maintain and strengthen the institution. Washington is honored with a holiday for leading a revolt against a monarchy in order to form a republic. And for maintaining that republic in the face of pressure to weaken and even reverse it.

The reasons to honor Washington are appropriate. The reasons to honor Davis aren't.