Happy Celebrate Traitors Day!

[TubbaBlubba]

Eh? I take it this is satire.

Tongue-in-cheek (and hastily written from a phone), yes - but there is a point to it. People living in the nation Washington co-founded can reasonably celebrate him being a symbolic and historically relevant figure without taking a stand on his personal virtues and vices, even though I think discussions of those are important and should be encouraged. He can be taken as a symbol of the nation - not necessarily what it was at the time of the founding, but what it has become to the people who live in it today, with all its faults.

On the other hand, it is impossible to reasonably celebrate Davis without either drawing attention to his many purported personal virtues, or some implicit approval of the CSA and the secession. Otherwise, um, exactly what would you be celebrating? The long-lasting positive effects of the civil war that Southeners enjoy today?

Still, yes, they aren't terribly different as people, and I am not particularly found of nationalism or jingoism. Yet the difference between the celebration seems pretty clear to me.

And yes, if Washington had lost, celebrating him would have been pretty different. Different how, I don't know (it is, after all, a massive counterfactual), but he wouldn't have been seen as a symbolic figure of the nation the U.S. is today, would he.

 

[Corsair 115]

Well, the Bergdahl thing is a perfect illustration of Rule One of ODS: Whatever Obama did, it's wrong. It matters not a bit that he did something that you were berating him for failing to do yesterday. As soon as he did it, it became wrong.

Nah, that's not ODS. That's making "Opposite Day" official party policy.


"Opposite Day? I've heard of that!"
"You have?"
"No! What is it?"

 

[trustbutverify]

On the other hand, it is impossible to reasonably celebrate Davis without either drawing attention to his many purported personal virtues, or some implicit approval of the CSA and the secession. Otherwise, um, exactly what would you be celebrating? The long-lasting positive effects of the civil war that Southeners enjoy today?

Still, yes, they aren't terribly different as people, and I am not particularly found of nationalism or jingoism. Yet the difference between the celebration seems pretty clear to me.

Which personal virtues of Davis are you referring to?

What evidence are you basing the conclusion that Washington and Davis weren't much different as people?

I don't think paying tribute to the massive contribution Washington made to the birth and maturing of the United States represents jingoism, or provincial nationalism.

 

[TubbaBlubba]

Which personal virtues of Davis are you referring to?

I don't know. Ask those who celebrate him. I mean, there has to be something except "seceded for the right to own slaves" they celerate... right...?

What evidence are you basing the conclusion that Washington and Davis weren't much different as people?

Both were slave-favouring "traitors" who attempted to form new republics by splitting off from their mother nations. I have no idea if the comparisons end there, or go further.

I don't think paying tribute to the massive contribution Washington made to the birth and maturing of the United States represents jingoism, or provincial nationalism.

I agree that it does not necessarily do so, but on the other hand I think that celebration of national symbols from other times and ages should be done only very carefully.

 

[Checkmite]

Alas, folks, the antidote to Jefferson Davis day is only weeks away.

 

[atecom]

I think they should make Jefferson Davis day a public holiday for white people and an unpaid work day for black people.