Hamas wants to kill all Jews?

[Thunder]

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1246443836666&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

So why in the world are they meeting with anti-Zionist Hasidic jews?

If Hamas surely sought the death of all Jews on Earth...or at least all Jews in Israel.....I don't think they would be meeting with Jews who believe that Jews have the eternal right to live in the Promised Land.

Naturei Karta..while anti-Zionist...still do believe that Jews have the right to live in the land. Hamas knows this...and yet they still meet with them.

Fascinating.

 

[Oliver]

You're not trying to proclaim that you thought that the topic of Israel and Jews is a black&white issue since you personally are the most obvious evidence that it isn't one?

 

[Pardalis]

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1246443836666&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFullFascinating.

They are the go-to guys, the "showcase Jews" for antisemites, and it's sad to see you fall for it.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Hamas wants to kill all Jews?

It struck me some years ago that Hamas' near term goal was a bit closer to that clever game the Bosnian Serbs were playing with Bosnian Muslims a decade or so ago.

Game played like this:

You leave, you live.
You stay, you die.

As to their long term goal, if those very efficient and industrially brilliant Germans could not wipe all the Jews in the world out, the chances that a load of disorganized, sloppy, and qarrelsome Arabs could do so is beyond low, approaching nil.

DR

 

[Marc39]

As to their long term goal, if those very efficient and industrially brilliant Germans could not wipe all the Jews in the world out, the chances that a load of disorganized, sloppy, and qarrelsome Arabs could do so is beyond low, approaching nil.

Those "disorganized, sloppy and qarrelsome [sic] Arabs" have mounted a startlingly effective public relations campaign targeting Israel that over time has succeeded in turning the international community against the state of Israel through a clever strategy, devised by the PLO in conjunction with the Soviet KGB, of demonization, dissemination of disinformation and delegitimization. The Arabs have been able to achieve through the court of public opinion what they could never achieve on the battlefield.

 

[funk de fino]

A very very good friend of mine died this week. His name was Hani, he was an Arab, he was a christian and he lived in Israel. I never once heard him namecall or diss any of the other people involved in the troubles and he prayed for peace everyday.

Although not as bad as in recent times the amount of threads on this subject that are filled with ignorant, biased, racist and bigoted posts make me sick to my stomach. If all the people in that part of the world were the same type of human being Hani was, the problem would be fixed. Anyone who thinks this is something that is to be blamed on one side only is delusional.

 

[Marc39]

A very very good friend of mine died this week. His name was Hani, he was an Arab, he was a christian and he lived in Israel. I never once heard him namecall or diss any of the other people involved in the troubles and he prayed for peace everyday.

Although not as bad as in recent times the amount of threads on this subject that are filled with ignorant, biased, racist and bigoted posts make me sick to my stomach. If all the people in that part of the world were the same type of human being Hani was, the problem would be fixed. Anyone who thinks this is something that is to be blamed on one side only is delusional.

Hani, with all due respect, was the exception. Perhaps it was his Christian upbringing and not a Muslim upbringing that would have instilled in him a hatred of Jews. I speak with many Arabs and, sadly, I have yet to meet a one who expresses support for the right of Israel to exist. And, I am not alone in this regard. The Middle East is diminished by the loss of your friend.

 

[TriskettheKid]

Hani, with all due respect, was the exception. Perhaps it was his Christian upbringing and not a Muslim upbringing that would have instilled in him a hatred of Jews. I speak with many Arabs and, sadly, I have yet to meet a one who expresses support for the right of Israel to exist. And, I am not alone in this regard. The Middle East is diminished by the loss of your friend.

*cough*Druze*cough*

 

[Pardalis]

It's not the first time useful idiots have been fooled by the "hey, they can't be antisemites if they're friends with Neturei Karta" bullcrap...

Here's E.J. in January: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131703

And Oliver in 2007: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3007772&postcount=1560, http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87498&page=40

Some people never learn.

 

[Doctor Evil]

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1246443836666&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

So why in the world are they meeting with anti-Zionist Hasidic jews?

If Hamas surely sought the death of all Jews on Earth...or at least all Jews in Israel.....I don't think they would be meeting with Jews who believe that Jews have the eternal right to live in the Promised Land.

Naturei Karta..while anti-Zionist...still do believe that Jews have the right to live in the land. Hamas knows this...and yet they still meet with them.

Fascinating.

As have pointed to you several times on this board, Hamas charter include a part of the Hadith which states that all Jews should be killed before the end of days.

One of the most ominous aspects of the Charter however, is this Hadith:

Moreover, if the links have been distant from each other and if obstacles, placed by those who are the lackeys of Zionism in the way of the fighters obstructed the continuation of the struggle, the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Muslim).
​

The implication is clear: Allah promised that the Jews will be murdered, and the Hamas "aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take."

The end of days is interpreted as a good thing.

Now why would Hamas meet with certain Jewish factions? It is simply a matter of political expediency. Hamas is currently fighting Israel. They are much the weaker side and would make use of any ally it can get, both for political and material assistance. They will be stupid not to do so.

I do not expect Hamas to ever be in a position where it actually able to kill all Jews, and thus bring the end of days. However, the movement has deemed this article important enough to be included in its political charter.

This article is a call for genocide. So what if Hamas meets Jews when this suits the organization political purpose. I see no reason to let Hamas off the hook so easily. It is their responsibility to convince the rest of the world that they do not have such intentions, not the other way around. They have gained the burden of proof by including the material cited above in their charter and by discussing it on their TV station.

The Hamas spokesman, Dr. Ismail Radwan, PA TV, March 30, 2007:
The Hour [Resurrection] will not take place until the Muslims fight the Jews and the Muslims kill them, and the rock and the tree will say: "Oh, Muslim, servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, kill him!"


We must remind our Arab and Muslim nation, its leaders and people, its scholars and students, remind them that Palestine and the Al Aqsa mosque will not be liberated through summits nor by international resolutions, but it will be liberated through the rifle. It will not be liberated through negotiations, but through the rifle, since this occupation knows no language but the language of force… O Allah, strengthen Islam and Muslims, and bring victory to your Jihad-fighting worshipers, in Palestine and everywhere… Allah take the oppressor Jews and Americans and their supporters!

If a movement includes a call for genocide as part of their political goals, I would expect people to call them on that, not to try to find ways to minimize the importance of this. Frankly, it makes me sick.

 

[Pardalis]

[useful idiot mode on]

But Doctor Evil, they can't possibly want to kill all Jews, they've been seen with rabbis, rabbis! They even shook hands with them and took pictures together, with their black fur hats and everything!

Well, OK, they're rabbis from a very weird and extremely fringe sect within Judaism, but they're Jews!

[/useful idiot mode off]

 

[Thunder]

Naturei Karta and all other anti-Zionist Hasidim believe in the eternal right of all Jews to live between the Sea and the River. They do not, however, believe in the right of Jewish self-determination until the Messiah comes.

Hamas knows this. If they wanted to kill all Jews or kick all Jews out of Palestine, they wouldn't be meeting with these Jews..or any Jews for the matter.

 

[Skeptic]

Parky just cannot understand why those whiny, annoying Jews make such a fuss about Hamas, when it possible it only plans to kill 98.6% of them (leaving temporarily alive a few cranks from a bizzare sect), not 100%.

 

[Thunder]

Parky just cannot understand why those whiny, annoying Jews make such a fuss about Hamas, when it possible it only plans to kill 98.6% of them (leaving temporarily alive a few cranks from a bizzare sect), not 100%.

I am a Jew...my friend. Nice job attempting to suggest I am an anti-Semite, with your ad hom attack.

I hate Hamas. They are terrorists, guilty of crimes against humanity. They should be disbanded and their leaders sent to prison.

But, unlike some OTHER people here, I do not have to LIE about my enemy in order to defeat them.

 

[tomwaits]

Is this the same group that joined Ahmadinejad's holocaust denial conference?

 

[Skeptic]

Yup. Presumably Parky also thinks the holocaust never happened -- some Jews were in a holocaust-denying conference, weren't they?

 

[Skeptic]

The "But some Jews are friends with Hamas" argument is of the same dishonest nonsense as the "But some scientists reject evolution" and "but some Jews are holocaust deniers". All are technically true, but only because in any large enough group, you can always find some nut who will agree with anything.

Neturei Karta being friends with Hamas no more proves Hamas doesn't want to kill all Jews than some nutty guy who actually has a Ph.D. (or a laboratory in a university department, or both) rejecting evolution means the scientific world has "doubts about evolution", or that some nutty Jew actually was once a member of the "Institute for Historical Research" means they aren't rank antisemitic liars.

The motivation for making such statements about Hamas -- again, in analogy with the motivation of those who claim "some scientists reject evolution" or "some Jews deny the holocaust" -- is either to help Hamas achieve its goal of genocide, or else not realizing that one is being played for a total sucker by falling for an obvious propaganda ploy.

 

[Darth Rotor]

A very very good friend of mine died this week. His name was Hani, he was an Arab, he was a christian and he lived in Israel. I never once heard him namecall or diss any of the other people involved in the troubles and he prayed for peace everyday.

Although not as bad as in recent times the amount of threads on this subject that are filled with ignorant, biased, racist and bigoted posts make me sick to my stomach. If all the people in that part of the world were the same type of human being Hani was, the problem would be fixed. Anyone who thinks this is something that is to be blamed on one side only is delusional.

I am sorry if I offended you or your friend, dearest funk, but I will stand by my general disdain for the modern day Arab, writ large, as a technically cultural people, and any assessd potential to perform at the highest levels of organization and efficiency. (Hell, it's tough enough for the Dutch, and they are good at it.)

If in a few generations of time it works out that the innate capacity for chaos and project buggery, in every single endeavor that I have been involved in that involves Arabs, of whatever nationality in the Mid East, is overcome then may Allah be praised indeed.

Projects include:

Training
Planning
Ship repair
AIrcraft repair and maintenance
Flying
Command and Control
Road and port maintenance
Shipping and receiving

This where resources are, thanks to the addiction to oil in the industrialized world, available in some of the more macro level concerns.

So there you have it.

Based on my modest readings in history, I am more inclined to attribute the marvelous intellectual gains of the middle ages, oft attributed to Arabs thanks maybe to how the written record was kept, to the Persian and Egyptian influence on the Muslim World at the time (as opposed to those non bathing sorts in Christendom).

I then assess the modern day Arab that I've run into and wonder at how any collection of said persons could pull off what the incredibly efficient and industrially competent Germans -- who in my experience are pretty good at not cocking up enterprises of similar complexity as noted above -- could not.

I'll confess to being a bit too general there, but the stunt it would take to affect genocide is staggering in its complexity.

They ain't up to it.

Persians? Maybe.

 

[Pardalis]

The "But some Jews are friends with Hamas" argument is of the same dishonest nonsense as the "But some scientists reject evolution" and "but some Jews are holocaust deniers". All are technically true, but only because in any large enough group, you can always find some nut who will agree with anything.

Neturei Karta being friends with Hamas no more proves Hamas doesn't want to kill all Jews than some nutty guy who actually has a Ph.D. (or a laboratory in a university department, or both) rejecting evolution means the scientific world has "doubts about evolution", or that some nutty Jew actually was once a member of the "Institute for Historical Research" means they aren't rank antisemitic liars.

The motivation for making such statements about Hamas -- again, in analogy with the motivation of those who claim "some scientists reject evolution" or "some Jews deny the holocaust" -- is either to help Hamas achieve its goal of genocide, or else not realizing that one is being played for a total sucker by falling for an obvious propaganda ploy.

That's why I call the NK the "showcase Jews" for antisemites: everytime antisemites will try to look legit or peaceful, you are be 100% sure they will do photo ops with those Neturei Karta bozos, and the usual gang will fall for it hook line and sinker. I almost didn't have to read the OP, I knew it was about them.

Just look at this prime example from Oliver:

While many Parts of Media and Politics are mongering against him:
In the meantime, Ahmadinejad is continuing his peace efforts:

President Ahmadinejad meets Jewish rabbis in New York
Full Article: http://www.president.ir/en/?ArtID=6759

"All people in the world have now understood that Judaism is different from Zionism," said the president.

He added, "Zionists are a political group looking for taking advantage of the opportunities while Jews are the followers of the Moses who promoted peace and friendship."
President Ahmadinejad stressed that there was no disagreement between the followers of Judaism, Christianity and Islam as they all pray the same God and are brothers.

When Ahmadinejad came to New York, the first thing he did was go to these guys, and Oliver, as expected, thought it was part of his "peace efforts"... You can't get more "useful" than that.

And the worst part is, two years later he says this:

You're not trying to proclaim that you thought that the topic of Israel and Jews is a black&white issue since you personally are the most obvious evidence that it isn't one?

He just won't get it.

 

[Ziggurat]

If Hamas surely sought the death of all Jews on Earth...or at least all Jews in Israel.....I don't think they would be meeting with Jews who believe that Jews have the eternal right to live in the Promised Land.

If Reagan wanted to destroy communism, I don't think he would meet with Gorbachev. So clearly, Reagan wasn't really anti-communist.

Yes, I know that's not a perfect parallel, but that's the depth of your thinking, parky.