Hamas & Israel Cease-Fire. Hamas Violates cease-fire.

[yairhol]

Hamas violates Cease-Fire with Israel

Incident 1:

6 rockets fired from Gaza


Despite ceasefire declared by Israel, Palestinian gunmen resume rocket fire Sunday morning. One Qassam hits Sderot area, another lands near kibbutz

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3657876,00.html

forum member ddt had said in another thread that he will keep monitoring violations of cease-fire between Israel and the terrorists. Here's the first one for you.

 

[yairhol]

Incident 2:

About six hours after unilateral ceasefire takes effect, Palestinian gunmen open fire at IDF forces, who fire back. About 170 trucks carrying fuel, food and medicines to enter Strip through border terminals Sunday

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3657857,00.html

ddt, still waiting for your promised thread...

 

[lupus_in_fabula]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3657876,00.html

forum member ddt had said in another thread that he will keep monitoring violations of cease-fire between Israel and the terrorists. Here's the first one for you.

The illuminating term here is unilateral: Israel Declares Cease-Fire; Hamas Says It Will Fight On

 

[portlandatheist]

In other news, the pope is Catholic and bears defecate in the woods.
Obviously, As long as Hamas exists, they will always be violent towards Israel as is most clearly and unambiguously stated in their charter. There is nothing Israel can do to change that simple fact regardless of its military actions or lack thereof, its borders, or its border policies. Hamas always has, and always will, be violent towards Israel. They never have nor ever will, honor any cease fire or any peace resolution brokered by any entity.

 

[yairhol]

The illuminating term here is unilateral

The Hamas has been saying that Israel is killing civilian lives. Israel has never aimed purposely at civilians and now is invoking a cease-fire. The Hamas, having no regards to their civilians are not accepting any cease-fire and continue firing at IDF forces and aiming at Israeli civilians with rocket launches.
When Israel retaliates they will cry "See, these Jews cannot be trusted. They said they will stop the attacks yet they continue." (or something similar)...

 

[FireGarden]

How many unilateral ceasefires have there been in history and how many have worked?

In other news, the pope is Catholic and bears defecate in the woods.
Obviously, As long as Hamas exists, they will always be violent towards Israel as is most clearly and unambiguously stated in their charter. There is nothing Israel can do to change that simple fact regardless of its military actions or lack thereof, its borders, or its border policies. Hamas always has, and always will, be violent towards Israel. They never have nor ever will, honor any cease fire or any peace resolution brokered by any entity.

Hamas and Israel had a ceasefire last year, whereby both sides agreed to end their acts of war: Israel agreed to end the blockade, Hamas to stop rocket fire.

The BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7545636.stm

has a graph of goods into Gaza. Less was delivered in October than in July -- inspite of the fact that fewer rockets were fired during October compared to July. Wiki lists only one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rocket_and_mortar_attacks_in_Israel_in_2008#October

Many of the rockets were fired by the al-aqsa Martyrs brigade -- Fatah's armed wing. Hamas arrested an al-Aqsa rocket squad in July 2008:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1000881.html

If Israel had given a sign that holding to a ceasefire was good for Gaza, then the ceasefire would have gone on. But Israel did no such thing.

 

[yairhol]

If Israel had given a sign that holding to a ceasefire was good for Gaza, then the ceasefire would have gone on. But Israel did no such thing.

So in your opinion did Israel do a mistake by starting the current ceasefire?

 

[a_unique_person]

Incident 1:


http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3657876,00.html

forum member ddt had said in another thread that he will keep monitoring violations of cease-fire between Israel and the terrorists. Here's the first one for you.

How can Hamas violate a ceasefire it said it had no desire to take part in, due to the conditions Israel offered being unacceptable to them?

It certainly gives a good headline, though.

Rockets fired into Israel after cease-fire

Webfusion has got it right.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133217

Gaza Ops Concluded -- IDF Ceases Fire

 

[a_unique_person]

So in opinion did Israel do a mistake by starting the current ceasefire?

Did Israel make a mistake in not continuing the previous ceasefire? I know Hamas did, they massively overestimated their ability to take on Israel in the inevitable result of the end of the ceasefire agreement.

 

[ddt]

How can Hamas violate a ceasefire they didn't agree to?

forum member ddt had said in another thread that he will keep monitoring violations of cease-fire between Israel and the terrorists. Here's the first one for you.

(a) again, I don't see a ceasefire violation as Hamas didnt' agree to it.

(b) let's look at what I said in that other thread:

What about a deal? You accomplish there will be a ceasefire again. Then I will maintain a thread here and document in it every infraction of the ceasefire - Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Fatah, Israel, Martians, whoever.

That was in response to you, yairhol. Now two questions:
(b.1) could you quote the post where you agreed to the deal?
(b.2) where's the evidence that you held up your end of the bargain?

You managed to put a lot of lies in such a short post.

 

[yairhol]

Israel will most-probably not have a direct cease-fire talk with the terrorist group called Hamas. When Hamas called on to the world to stop the "Israeli aggression" they quoted very clearly and held on to what other countries said about Israel but now when the western world leaders are declaring that the cease-fire by Israel is acceptable and they come to Israel to support it, now the Hamas suddenly does not recognize that.
Strange indeed.

Hamas is forced to take the cease-fire otherwise it has no saying that Israel is the aggressor and should not call on to the world to stop Israel from wiping it off the map.

 

[Darat]

Er? Your argument is simply incoherent.

 

[yairhol]

(b.1)could you quote the post where you agreed to the deal?
(b.2) where's the evidence that you held up your end of the bargain?

Why do you need my approval?
If you believe you are right, you can start a thread about this with or without my approval. Unless of course you don't believe you are right which I will back you up on that.

The cease-fire by Israel is happening right now. That I can tell you. Hamas on the other hand is shooting all over the place.

 

[a_unique_person]

Israel will most-probably not have a direct cease-fire talk with the terrorist group called Hamas. When Hamas called on to the world to stop the "Israeli aggression" they quoted very clearly and held on to what other countries said about Israel but now when the western world leaders are declaring that the cease-fire by Israel is acceptable and they come to Israel to support it, now the Hamas suddenly does not recognize that.
Strange indeed.

Hamas is forced to take the cease-fire otherwise it has no saying that Israel is the aggressor and should not call on to the world to stop Israel from wiping it off the map.

Israel already had a 'cease fire' agreement, (forget exactly what the term was), with Hamas. That expired.

 

[yairhol]

Israel already had a 'cease fire' agreement, (forget exactly what the term was), with Hamas.

Tahadia?

 

[a_unique_person]

Tahadia?

So they must have negotiated something with them.

 

[lupus_in_fabula]

The Hamas has been saying that Israel is killing civilian lives.

Yes, although not only Hamas but many others too. It is, of course, a fact that civilians have died – quite many actually.

Israel has never aimed purposely at civilians and now is invoking a cease-fire.

Yes, Israel invoked a cease-fire. What comes to not purposely aiming at civilians, as a general policy, I'm sure you're right as well. However, violations to this principle by Israeli soldiers is another matter, and it remains to be seen if there has been such violations (we simply don't know that). Moreover, disregard of civilian lives as a consequence of de facto used fire powers is also a question which should be investigated.

The Hamas, having no regards to their civilians are not accepting any cease-fire and continue firing at IDF forces and aiming at Israeli civilians with rocket launches.

No, they have been pretty clear about what actions they want Israel to do in order to accept a cease-fire. However, they have indeed aimed rockets at civilians, which is a war crime.

When Israel retaliates they will cry "See, these Jews cannot be trusted. They said they will stop the attacks yet they continue." (or something similar)...

It remains to be seen what they will say or claim. I suspect it goes something like this: Until all troops are gone and the blockade is lifted, they will continue firing rockets. It's my understanding that those two preconditions is what Hamas is aiming for right now.


** **

Basically what all this seems to point to is that Hamas tries to force Israel to some kind of negotiation (even though through Egypt or some other party). I believe that is the immediate political goal they are aiming for. In other words, they are trying to force Israel into accepting a bilateral cease-fire, thus indirectly having to consider Hamas a political player in this whole mess. I'm not sure that will happen before the Israeli elections however, if at all.

 

[yairhol]

Do you condemn Hamas rockets after Israeli cease-fire?

Israel has declared since 2 A.M., 1.18.09, a unilateral cease-fire with the Hamas.
In response, the Hamas has fired until now 2:18 P.M., 1.18.09, 12 rockets to Israeli civilian towns.

Parky76, ddt, FireGarden, darat, FFT, a unique person,
do you strongly condemn Hamas' actions since 2A.M.?
Hams keeps firing from civilian areas although Israel is not firing at them (at the Hamas). If Israel retaliates there could unfortunately be more civilian casualties along with the dead Hamas terrorists.

Condemn The Hamas?
Yes or No please.

 

[a_unique_person]

I have said from the moment Hamas gained power I didn't like them, and that they would not bring any benefits to the Palestinians. They remind me too much of the Taliban, too fundamentalist and dependent on an invisible guy in the sky to help them out of their predicament. He doesn't give a damn about either side.

 

[ddt]

Why do you need my approval?

Huh? I proposed a deal. You didn't agree to it. Why should I comply with my end of a proposed deal that wasn't closed?

And when are you going to admit you lied about what I wrote?

If you believe you are right, you can start a thread about this with or without my approval.

If you believe you're right, you close the deal and hold up your end of it.

Unless of course you don't believe you are right which I will back you up on that.

Huh? Even if I would start a thread about Hamas violations of ceasefires, there first must be a ceasefire Hamas agrees to for it to make sense.

The cease-fire by Israel is happening right now. That I can tell you. Hamas on the other hand is shooting all over the place.

How often must I repeat myself?

If you were really worried about Hamas shooting rockets at Israel, you'd start a thread with a more truthful title. As it is, with both the thread title, your OP and various of your other posts packed with misrepresentations and lies, discussion centers about your wording and not about the rockets.

You're not really concerned are you?