Haig and his Sun caused earthquakes

[Haig]

Got a few mins to respond but not everyone is worth responding too. Mr citizen scientist has shown to be not worth the effort and I'm not the first or I'm sure, the last to say it. On ignore.

Does Mr. Davidson actually know what longitude means? How is longitudinal motion supposed to be "compression/expansion"? Longitudinal means "around the Earth", how is that going to be compression or expansion? And what does he mean with "tangential" in this context?

I'm sure he knows exactly what he means and would be happy to put you right. Why don't you ask him? Email him here ... Ben Davidson
[email protected]

Would it not be good to put in some actual data in this so-called "paper"? Instead of plots without any axes as in Figure 4? Which figure actually shows that the big earthquakes can happen at any phase of those three coloured curves, reversal or maximum or minimum. So, what was that again that I wrote, that is was badly written???

Seems clear enough to me Figure 4: The Six Largest Earthquakes of the Current Solar Polar Fields Cycle

The authors should have taken magnetometer data and actually show what these significant changes in magnetic and electric field look like to at least try and support their handwaving arugment.

They may do that later, this is an ongoing study.

Did you find the explanation in "Apendix A" clear enough when it describes the mathematical model ?

Don't worry Haig, I will not ask you to do something like that.

Thanks

Who the frak cares about how much time of work is put into it? Spending more time does not make it necessarily better (as obvious from their "paper") neither does spending less time make it worse. A project takes the time it needs.

That's a little harsh tusenfem. The setting out page is just giving background information HERE and that seems fair enough. The actual paper is HERE and is very well presented imo.

All in all, your points are minor, the center holds

No, dear Haig, the burden is yours and not ours. Or it would be yours, if you in fact had a hypothesis rather than, as Dinwar aptly put it, a Just So Story. When you have something more than idle speculations like "...if the Earth was a giant capacitor..." or "..if the Earth was an electromagent.." come back and we can discuss it..

They explain that point in the paper ...

4.2 Modeling the SPF Earthquake Trigger
To explain the connection between earthquakes and the changes in SPF, we consider modeling the earth as a capacitor (Hill 1971; Ustundag 2005) which could temporarily store energy to be triggered later by changes in the SPF. The ionosphere, an electrically conductive layer, is treated as one plate of the capacitor while the other conducting plates exist in or below the ground. Two plates are separated by the Earth’s atmosphere and mantle crust, which are treated as leaky insulations. In this model, electrical movements in the ionosphere in longitude (compression/expansion) or tangential (circulation) directions can result in significant changes in Earth’s electric fields or magnetic fields which propagate into the Earth’s crust, as part of the capacitor.

The field modulation (especially in the electric fields) influences the movement of global charges currently existing in the Earth’s crust (Namgaladze 2013), accelerating charge diffusion toward the tectonic hot spots that already contain high charge concentration. It is also known that charges are scattered in the uniform dielectric volume and converged around cracks or contacts between two dielectric layers containing stress. As a result, a strong electric field may be locally produced amplifying the mechanical stress through piezoelectric effect (Manbachi 2011). Large displacement current and local heating have been observed during earthquakes as a result of electrical discharge in various earthquake preparation zones (Teisseyre 1997; Lovett 2013).

You did read all the paper ferd, right?

There is a further source of information being set up on this topic called QUAKEWATCH.NET It's not finished yet but should be worth a look see

Some of you guys need a reminder ...

Earthquakes and the Solar System

 

[JeanTate]

Got a few mins to respond but not everyone is worth responding too. Mr citizen scientist has shown to be not worth the effort and I'm not the first or I'm sure, the last to say it. On ignore.

Got it. When faced with hard evidence of of your willful ignorance (using your own words to boot!), you take the time and trouble to actually learn something?

Nah, so much easier and more comforting to pull the shell around you even tighter, retreat deeper into self-isolation and delusions ...

Seems clear enough to me Figure 4: The Six Largest Earthquakes of the Current Solar Polar Fields Cycle

Kinda makes your willful ignorance even more public, eh?

They explain that point in the paper ...

And you swallowed what's there, hook, line, and sinker? You truly found nothing, um, odd about that (don't bother answering, even if you do read what I wrote)?

 

[JeanTate]

I've got a (Haig-style) hypothesis!

To explain the connection between earthquakes (and extreme weather, and ...) and human activity, I consider modeling the Earth as a capacitor (Hill 1971; Ustundag 2005) which could temporarily store energy to be triggered later by changes in electricity generation and distribution (location, power, etc).

New power plants in China? More 8+ earthquakes near the Andes!

Upgraded long distance transmission lines in Europe (to capture and distribute electricity produced by wind)? More severe hurricanes in the Bahamas!

To paraphrase Haig, this is what you (or anybody) needs to explain away.

 

[Reality Check]

...I'll post the hypothesis material again below ...

What you post are the delusions of Ben Davidson yet again, Haig!
Ben Davidson spoke at EU 2015. The Electric Universe followers believe in Velikovsky's delusion that planets zoomed around the Solar System to explain various myths in recent times and the extra layer of delusion added by the Thunderbolts authors.

You should address your own delusions first: Haig: 14 delusions about the Sun and earthquakes since 4 May 2015

Or support the hypothesis with evidence: 26 August 2015 Haig: What's the "relative strength" of a solar flare that would suddenly change the rotation of the Earth?

 

[Reality Check]

Earthquake and hurricane coupling is ascertained by ground-based laser interferometer and satellite observing techniques pdf

Signatures of ocean storms on seismic records in South China Sea and East China Sea

Will you acknowledge the depth of your ignorance of English as displayed by these two links , Haig?
Neither of these links is about solar activity causing earthquakes !
The second paper is the interesting fact that seismographs can pick up ocean storms. This is not a surprise - sensitive ones can pick traffic on nearby highways!
The first paper is a rejected discussion paper . There is an implied lie by linking to the PDF rather then the journal, Haig.
Earthquake and hurricane coupling is ascertained by ground-based laser interferometer and satellite observing techniques

This discussion paper has been under review for the journal Natural Hazards and Earth System Science (NHESS). A final paper in NHESS is not foreseen.

 

[Haig]

What you post are the delusions of Ben Davidson yet again, Haig!
Ben Davidson spoke at EU 2015. The Electric Universe followers believe in Velikovsky's delusion that planets zoomed around the Solar System to explain various myths in recent times and the extra layer of delusion added by the Thunderbolts authors.

You should address your own delusions first: Haig: 14 delusions about the Sun and earthquakes since 4 May 2015

Or support the hypothesis with evidence: 26 August 2015 Haig: What's the "relative strength" of a solar flare that would suddenly change the rotation of the Earth?

The more you look the more you can support the hypothesis with evidence RC

Seems there is nothing new under the Sun

Solar wind triggering of geomagnetic disturbances and strong (M>6.8) earthquakes during the November – December 2004 period pdf

This paper provide evidence that the increase of solar wind speed, and the subsequent fast variability of the geomagnetic field was probably a trigger agent for the giant Sumatra – Andaman EQ and for 6 more than 6.8 (>6.8) EQs occurred within the period of a month before that deadly event (Sumatra – Andaman EQ). This hypothesis is strongly supported by the data and is consistent with previously published statistical results mentioned in Section 1.

The solar-magnetosphere-lithosphere coupling and their possible special characteristics during the period examined in this paper should further studied, since it provides a good example of direct response of a series of 7 strong-to-giant EQs to solar wind speed increases and their subsequent geomagnetic disturbances. Moreover, it could provide significant information on the underlying physical relation processes. The whole set of data between 23/11/2004-28/12/2004 and the probably suggestion that the fast variability of the geomagnetic field is a key parameter for formulating a theory on solar wind / geomagnetic storm triggering of the EQs is under examination. Since, it is generally accepted that the strength of the Sumatra – Andaman (SA) EQ was unexpected from only a tectonic plate point of view and that the oceanwide tsunamis may reflect the short earthquake history sampled (Stein and Okal, 2007)

 

[ferd burfle]

They explain that point in the paper ...


You did read all the paper ferd, right?

Haig, if you post that same bit again you're going to wear out the electrons! But respost it all you please, it still won't make it an explanation. It's just speculation based on nothing; no observations, no measurements. Just "could" and "may be". The rest of the paper is just them trying to torture the semblance of a correlation out of historical data.

 

[JeanTate]

Nice one Haig, nice one (not that you'll read this, unless someone quotes it)

The more you look the more you can support the hypothesis with evidence RC

Seems there is nothing new under the Sun

Solar wind triggering of geomagnetic disturbances and strong (M>6.8) earthquakes during the November – December 2004 period pdf

Let's remind ourselves of Haig's own description of what this thread is about: "You seem ignorant to the OP where I was invited to support the hypothesis [The title is wrong. Davidson, U-Yen, & Hollmann proposes earthquakes to be triggered by solar activity]" (bold added)

So, is the G. Anagnostopoulos, A. Papandreou and P. Antoniou document derived from the Davidson, U-Yen, & Hollmann proposal?

Easy enough to check ... just look at the references!

Nope, no Davidson, U-Yen, or Hollmann mentioned ... maybe Anagnostopoulos+ have stolen Haig's Davidson+'s proposal?

Or maybe the Anagnostopoulos+ document truly has nothing to do with the Davidson+ proposal?

Maybe Haig is spamming this thread, again? Maybe Haig has me on Ignore because he's afraid I'll provide evidence - in his own words! - of his willful ignorance (again)?

 

[Reality Check]

The more you look the more you can support the hypothesis with evidence RC

That is a lie, Haig. You cannot support an idea with a PDF on the Internet that does not the your deluded authors of that idea.
This is especially true when linking to the PDF is a lie by concealing that Solar wind triggering of geomagnetic disturbances and strong (M>6.8) earthquakes during the November - December 2004 period is a 2010 pre-print that has not been published.

That looks like more delusions that may be added to your list soon.
27 August 2015 Haig: You cannot support an idea with an unpublished 2010 pre-print on arXiv.org that does not cite the deluded authors of that idea.

27 August 2015 Haig: Can you understand that an EU conference speaker (Ben Davidson) is deluded?
Ben Davidson spoke at EU 2015. The Electric Universe followers believe in Velikovsky's delusion that planets zoomed around the Solar System to explain various myths in recent times and the extra layer of delusion added by the Thunderbolts authors.

27 August 2015 Haig: Can you understand that an EU conference speaker (Dr. Kongpop U-yen) is deluded?
EU2014 — speakers
The Electric Universe followers believe in Velikovsky's delusion that planets zoomed around the Solar System to explain various myths in recent times and the extra layer of delusion added by the Thunderbolts authors.

Rather than emphasizing an obsession with delusional authors, you should address your own delusions first: Haig: 14 delusions about the Sun and earthquakes since 4 May 2015

Or support the hypothesis with evidence: 26 August 2015 Haig: What's the "relative strength" of a solar flare that would suddenly change the rotation of the Earth?[/QUOTE]

 

[Haig]

Haig, if you post that same bit again you're going to wear out the electrons! But respost it all you please, it still won't make it an explanation.

But ferd I like that bit What do you mean I could wear it out!

RC does repeat stuff all the time, will his stuff wear out too?

It's just speculation based on nothing; no observations, no measurements. Just "could" and "may be". The rest of the paper is just them trying to torture the semblance of a correlation out of historical data.

I take it you haven't read the evidence in the paper in my last post? Do try to keep up

Even NASA are suggesting the space weather from the Sun can shake the Earth.

Spacequakes Rumble Near Earth

A spacequake is a temblor in Earth's magnetic field. It is felt most strongly in Earth orbit, but is not exclusive to space. The effects can reach all the way down to the surface of Earth itself. "Magnetic reverberations have been detected at ground stations all around the globe, much like seismic detectors measure a large earthquake," says THEMIS principal investigator Vassilis Angelopoulos of UCLA.

Hey tusenfem / RC what do you say now?

 

[Reality Check]

I take it you haven't read the evidence in the paper in my last post?

Repeating a lie does not make it the truth, Haig.
27 August 2015 Haig: You cannot support an idea with an unpublished 2010 pre-print on arXiv.org that does not cite the deluded authors of that idea.

Hey tusenfem / RC what do you say now?

What I say is that you are now lying about NASA, Haig, .
Spacequakes Rumble Near Earth

July 27, 2010: Researchers using NASA's fleet of five THEMIS spacecraft have discovered a form of space weather that packs the punch of an earthquake and plays a key role in sparking bright Northern Lights. They call it "the spacequake." ...
Acting together, vortices and spacequakes could have a noticeable effect on Earth. The tails of vortices may funnel particles into Earth's atmosphere, sparking auroras and making waves of ionization that disturb radio communications and GPS. By tugging on surface magnetic fields, spacequakes generate currents in the very ground we walk on. Ground current surges can have profound consequences, in extreme cases bringing down power grids over a wide area.

NASA does not suggest "the space weather from the Sun can shake the Earth".

 

[Haig]

What I say is that you are now lying about NASA, Haig, .
Spacequakes Rumble Near Earth

NASA does not suggest "the space weather from the Sun can shake the Earth".

RC you do know space weather comes from the Sun and NASA say in the first few paragraphs the spacequake shocks can be detected ALL the way down to the ground ... read it! HERE

July 27, 2010: Researchers using NASA's fleet of five THEMIS spacecraft have discovered a form of space weather that packs the punch of an earthquake and plays a key role in sparking bright Northern Lights. They call it "the spacequake."

A spacequake is a temblor in Earth's magnetic field. It is felt most strongly in Earth orbit, but is not exclusive to space. The effects can reach all the way down to the surface of Earth itself.

"Magnetic reverberations have been detected at ground stations all around the globe, much like seismic detectors measure a large earthquake," says THEMIS principal investigator Vassilis Angelopoulos of UCLA.

Surely you're not saying NASA are delusional are you ?


So, here we have a possible trigger for earthquakes "A spacequake is a temblor in Earth's magnetic field. It is felt most strongly in Earth orbit, but is not exclusive to space. The effects can reach all the way down to the surface of Earth itself." Right?

 

[Reality Check]

RC you do know space weather comes from the Sun and NASA say in the first few paragraphs the spacequake shocks can be detected ALL the way down to the ground ... read it!

I read that article. I know that

• space weather comes from the Sun.
• NASA say in the first few paragraphs the "spacequake" can be detected ALL the way down to the ground
• the article makes "NASA are suggesting the space weather from the Sun can shake the Earth." into a lie because there is no mention of the Earth shaking.

You are the one fantasizing that, Haig. It is not a suggestion from NASA.

I am saying that you, Ben Davidson and Dr. Kongpop U-yen are followers of the deluded Thunderbolts cult, Haig. That is evidence that you, Ben Davidson and Dr. Kongpop U-yen are delusional.
ETA: Haig: 14 delusions about the Sun and earthquakes since 4 May 2015 includes a link to the Thunderbolts delusions that you have been repeating since 2010. You are still posting about the insanity that comets are rocks with electrical discharges, imaginary double layers, etc. with no sign that you have learned how deluded the idea is!
27 August 2015 Haig: Can you understand that an EU conference speaker (Ben Davidson) is deluded?
27 August 2015 Haig: Can you understand that an EU conference speaker (Dr. Kongpop U-yen) is deluded?

26 August 2015 Haig: What's the "relative strength" of a solar flare that would suddenly change the rotation of the Earth?
27 August 2015 Haig: You cannot support an idea with an unpublished 2010 pre-print on arXiv.org that does not cite the deluded authors of that idea.

Wrong, Haig: "here we have a possible trigger for earthquakes" is yet another delusion. There is no mention of earthquake triggers in that article. Spinning fairy tales is not science.
Right, Haig, that is a quote from the article: "A spacequake is a temblor in Earth's magnetic field. It is felt most strongly in Earth orbit, but is not exclusive to space. The effects can reach all the way down to the surface of Earth itself.". But once again - fairy tales are not science.

 

[jimbob]

Some real science: New model explains some earthquakes away from plate boundaries

http://news.sciencemag.org/earth/20...thin-earth-may-explain-mysterious-earthquakes

 

[Haig]

Wrong, Haig: "here we have a possible trigger for earthquakes" is yet another delusion. There is no mention of earthquake triggers in that article. Spinning fairy tales is not science.
Right, Haig, that is a quote from the article: "A spacequake is a temblor in Earth's magnetic field. It is felt most strongly in Earth orbit, but is not exclusive to space. The effects can reach all the way down to the surface of Earth itself.". But once again - fairy tales are not science.

You're flapping RC and it's hilarious

What NASA said is this ...

According to THEMIS, the jets crash into the geomagnetic field some 30,000 km above Earth's equator. The impact sets off a rebounding process, in which the incoming plasma actually bounces up and down on the reverberating magnetic field. Researchers call it "repetitive flow rebuffing." It's akin to a tennis ball bouncing up and down on a carpeted floor. The first bounce is a big one, followed by bounces of decreasing amplitude as energy is dissipated in the carpet.

"We've long suspected that something like this was happening," says Sibeck. "By observing the process in situ, however, THEMIS has discovered something new and surprising."

The surprise is plasma vortices, huge whirls of magnetized gas as wide as Earth itself, spinning on the verge of the quaking magnetic field.

"When plasma jets hit the inner magnetosphere, vortices with opposite sense of rotation appear and reappear on either side of the plasma jet," explains Rumi Nakamura of the Space Research Institute in Austria, a co-author of the study. "We believe the vortices can generate substantial electrical currents in the near-Earth environment."

Acting together, vortices and spacequakes could have a noticeable effect on Earth.

That links in very well to the paper Relationship Between M8+ Earthquake Occurrences and the Solar Polar Magnetic Fields The idea that our variable Sun can trigger earthquakes is nothing new of course ...


The Next Scientific Frontier: Sun-Earth Interactions

Mitch Battros theorized in 1998 that large solar flares affect Earth’s magnetic field, which in turn shifts the oceanic and atmospheric currents, which can cause earthquakes and extreme weather. As Battros summarizes his formula:

Sunspots => Solar Flares (charged particles) => Magnetic Field Shift => Shifting Ocean and Jet Stream Currents => Extreme Weather and Human Disruption

While this may sound crazy, Battros’ theories have been endorsed to one degree or another by:

Dr. Ernest Hildner, Director NOAA Space Weather Center
Dr. Tom Van Flandern, former US Naval Observatory Chief of Celestial Mechanics
Dr. Stefaan Poedts: Lead Scientist University of Leuven Center for Plasma Astrophysics
Dr. Ronald van der Linden, Director of Solar Physics Department of the Royal Observatory
Dr. Pål Brekke, Deputy Director of SOHO project- European Space Agency

When scientists understand all of the ways that the Sun and Earth interact, we will know alot more about the Earth and our place in the universe than we do today.

Can Solar Activity Cause Earthquakes, Volcanoes and Extreme Weather?

Some Scientists Believe Solar Activity Can Cause Earthquakes, Volcanoes or Extreme Weather

New Study Finds Earth’s Equatorial Regions Prone to Disruptive Space Weather

new report warns that smaller events strike – often with little warning – in equatorial regions with greater frequency than previously known, according to Brett A. Carter, lead author of the report and a visiting scholar at Boston College’s Institute for Scientific Research.

“These disturbances affect what’s happening in the equatorial region, which has largely been overlooked,” said Carter, a space physicist who is also affiliated with RMIT’s SPACE Research Centre in Melbourne, Australia. “What the historical data also show is that we don’t need huge geomagnetic storms to experience the effects. They can also take place during what we might otherwise classify as ‘quiet’ periods of space weather.”

There are many more studies that show how the Sun - Earth connection works and effects us. Earthquake triggering is hardly surprising really!!!!

 

[JeanTate]

You're flapping RC and it's hilarious

What NASA said is this ...



That links in very well to the paper Relationship Between M8+ Earthquake Occurrences and the Solar Polar Magnetic Fields The idea that our variable Sun can trigger earthquakes is nothing new of course ...


The Next Scientific Frontier: Sun-Earth Interactions



Can Solar Activity Cause Earthquakes, Volcanoes and Extreme Weather?



New Study Finds Earth’s Equatorial Regions Prone to Disruptive Space Weather





There are many more studies that show how the Sun - Earth connection works and effects us. Earthquake triggering is hardly surprising really!!!!

Yet more willful ignorance in evidence.

Yet more linkspam.

Yet more dishonesty ("You seem ignorant to the OP where I was invited to support the hypothesis [The title is wrong. Davidson, U-Yen, & Hollmann proposes earthquakes to be triggered by solar activity]" - Haig doesn't like to be held to word)

How long must this continue before a mod takes action?

 

[Haig]

Some real science: New model explains some earthquakes away from plate boundaries

http://news.sciencemag.org/earth/20...thin-earth-may-explain-mysterious-earthquakes

Hi jimbob, Don't you think this is REAL science? ... Solar wind triggering of geomagnetic disturbances and strong (M>6.8) earthquakes during the November – December 2004 period pdf

Abstract. This paper brings space weather prediction close to earthquake (EQ) prediction research. The results of this paper support conclusions of previously presented statistical studies that solar activity influences the seismic activity, this influence is mediated through rapid geomagnetic disturbances and the geomagnetic disturbances are related with increases of solar wind speed.

The point to grasp here, on this thread, is that the claim/hypothesis is that Earth impacting solar events may TRIGGER earthquakes, volcanoes and major weather features etc.

The cause of earthquakes stress build-up through Plate Tectonics isn't being disputed here as has been made very clear in this THE SUN AND M8+ EARTHQUAKES: THE SPF TRIGGER. Notice the use of the word TRIGGER in the title, I hope that explains things for you


The update of how our variable star is behaving is another way to understand this with good info on the Quake Watch Details ...

M2 Flare, G2 Storm, Quake Watch Details | S0 News August 27, 2015

 

[JeanTate]

Hi jimbob, Don't you think this is REAL science? ... Solar wind triggering of geomagnetic disturbances and strong (M>6.8) earthquakes during the November – December 2004 period pdf



The point to grasp here, on this thread, is that the claim/hypothesis is that Earth impacting solar events may TRIGGER earthquakes, volcanoes and major weather features etc.

The cause of earthquakes stress build-up through Plate Tectonics isn't being disputed here as has been made very clear in this THE SUN AND M8+ EARTHQUAKES: THE SPF TRIGGER. Notice the use of the word TRIGGER in the title, I hope that explains things for you


The update of how our variable star is behaving is another way to understand this with good info on the Quake Watch Details ...

M2 Flare, G2 Storm, Quake Watch Details | S0 News August 27, 2015

Why is it so difficult for you to be honest about what you're doing in this thread, Haig?

You have been quite clear about what you, yourself, consider this thread to be about (slight paraphrasing and re-formatting): "I was invited to support the hypothesis [which is] Davidson, U-Yen, & Hollmann's proposals [that] earthquakes to be triggered by solar activity" and "The heart of the hypothesis [is Davidson+'s] "Relationship Between M8+ Earthquake Occurrences and the Solar Polar Magnetic Fields" [document and] "THE SUN AND M8+ EARTHQUAKES: THE SPF TRIGGER"".

Obviously you have an additional agenda, to spam this thread with material from your sponsor, irrespective of how it's related to "the Davidson+ hypothesis" ...

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

Haig: a simple question you might be able to answer with words instead of linkbarf -
Are solar triggered earthquakes triggered by an increase in tectonic stress pushing the fault over its threshold or a decrease in fault friction allowing release of existing built stresses?

 

[Haig]

Haig: a simple question you might be able to answer with words instead of linkbarf -
Are solar triggered earthquakes triggered by an increase in tectonic stress pushing the fault over its threshold or a decrease in fault friction allowing release of existing built stresses?

Jrrarglblarg, Why ask the messenger? I just copy/paste stuff I've read that I think is interesting and has merit. It's up to you, the reader, to check it out and make your own mind up. Others would like to do your thinking for you.

You don't have to be an expert, just compare both sides and decide who's talking sense. Most of us are taxpayers and most science is paid out of tax, so they have a duty to make it understandable to the paying public. After all, come election time, you pick a political party and what do you base that choice on?

But since you asked nicely ... my answers are No & Yes based on what I've read so far but it's early days yet

What do you think ?


SpaceWeatherNews.co

LATEST SOLAR NEWS:
(Aug 27 0955UTC) A level 2 Geomagnetic Storm has set in.
(Aug 27 0207UTC) A level 1 Geomagnetic Storm has set in.
(Aug 26 1922UTC) Earth’s magnetic field has been unstable all day due to the solar wind shifts.
(Aug 25 1807UTC) CME or not, the solar wind is shifting, most importantly, the Phi angle.
(Aug 24 1332UTC) The CMEs are significantly late in arriving. Magnetic disruptions will not be as bad as predicted.