Merged H1N1 Flu Vaccine and "miscarriages"

[trusetheeker]

No I don't. Most RSM stuff is fine, but they have been infiltrated by the usual suspects. Much the same happened to the Royal College of Physicians, until the President was alerted to what was going on, resulting in its Integrated Health Committee being disbanded. Of course, that has risen again as ... What irks me is a respected learned society stooping to the tactics of the snake oil salesmen. They should know better.

It's interesting that you should mention snake oil as the biggest snake oil scam ever is the vaccination industry by which pharma and the medical society both make huge profits.

The industry credits itself with saving millions via vaccination but denies any responsibility for any adverse affects that arise from its one-size-fits-all preventative treatment. 100s of miscarriages were reported during the last Swine Flu scare (oops pandemic) yet the CDC still claim that none occurred!
As a newbie, I cannot post the url but will imply that you'll find more information about this subject at progressiveconvergence.com's article: NCOW Press Release: "CDC allegedly falsifies reports--ignoring up to 3,587 Miscarriages from H1N1 Vaccine"

This comes as no surprise to those of us who watched the pandemic unfold knowing that it was a scam from the offset. However, it's not an anomaly as the entire modern medical system is based on an illusion that these caring individuals actually understand the true nature of health.

If they did, would they try to heal the body by administering poisons that you wouldn't give to a healthy person?

Trusetheeker

 

[Rolfe]

Oh, this should be good.

I'd start a new thread though, derailing is against the rules.

Rolfe.

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

A new member, trusetheeker, wishes us to consider that as part of the global conspiracy to foist vaccines upon us, miscarriages caused by the H1N1 vaccine have been ignored.

Trusetheeker cites a claim that there have been "up to 3,587 Miscarriages from H1N1 Vaccine". Though, one is obliged to point out that this is the extreme upper limit of an uncontrolled estimate for an absolute number without any reference to the size of the denominator that would be needed to estimate risk. Here's a link to one source for that quotation.

One almost feels pity for trusetheeker that they have brought an elderly three-legged chihuahua to the dogfight, but I feel duty bound to set up the ring and invite the pitbulls of science-based medicine to engage in a little light ripping.

I, for one, had never heard of the National Coalition of Organized Women. Now I have;

"The National Coalition of Organized Women is a verb, an organizing force, a coalescing energy based on the Unified Field and quantum physics which defines it. NCOW has no matrix, no special tax status, no agenda. It can not be found because it is everywhere and nowhere at the same time. All activities arise from the “individual”, his/her personal connection to Source and the enlightened spiritual impulses deriving there from. NCOW is simply “individuals” spending their own time and money as individuals speaking up for progressive change and a new vision for America…and the world."

Nuff said.

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Oh, this should be good.

I'd start a new thread though, derailing is against the rules.

Rolfe.

Your wish is my command.

 

[Delphinium]

So on one hand, they have a collection of anecdotes and on the other, a collection of unverified reports with some possible overlaps that show one event happening after another. Then a great launch to "this caused that" without denominators or ascertaining whether there was any effect on background rates, as it's known a significant number of pregnancies fail naturally.

Dare anyone challenge an organisation that's got the force of coalescing energy behind them? It sounds so mysterious and powerful all at once, well, at least they think it does. It's rather more laughable than anything to see their attempt to be deep and meaningful.

 

[Emet]

I'm afraid it's more serious than anyone could imagine (even in their wildest delusions ):

Under-lying-H1N1—US Bio-weaponry Program
September 14th, 2009

By Eileen Dannemann, director National Coalition of Organized Women

Establishing bio-weaponry protocol, a fear based national and international dictum, has significantly invaded every State, local and personal body part at break neck speed.

But who realizes the under-lying reality… that is…that the H1N1 pandemic is, simply put, a worldwide consequence management drill for the sole purpose of refining national and worldwide bio-weaponry protocol.

Obviously, viral and pathogenic bio-threat is a real concern advancing from the dark high-security tombs of the Dept. Of Defense (DOD), Human Health Services, (HHS) Centers for Disease Control (CDC), World Health Organization (WHO) and God knows what other agency acronyms are on the short list. The protocols on bio-threat disease and dying have made their way in solid style right down through the official CDC networks, namely, our local Depts. Of Public Health where “bio-security” trained administrators, who are being legislated unprecedented authority over our sovereign personhood, have been in their faceless highly paid places for years now.

More of the conspiracy here.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

Viruses have been around long before stupid humans.

Oh, and the vaccine has always covered an H1N1 Strain, and this year the combined flu vaccine covers the one novel one that went around last year.

The seasonal flu vaccine protects against three influenza viruses that research indicates will be most common during the upcoming season. The 2010-2011 flu vaccine will protect against 2009 H1N1, and two other influenza viruses (an H3N2 virus and an influenza B virus).

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/keyfacts.htm

 

[Estellea]

In a nutshell, NCOW went dumpster diving in VAERS, created their own poll, banged them together, pulled some correction factors out of their bums and came up with this drek. They made no attempt to ascertain medical records and certainly made no comparisons to national miscarriage rates for the same period. Oh wait, they did and the source is, of course, lying.

Este

 

[Chris Haynes]

..."The National Coalition of Organized Women is a verb, an organizing force, a coalescing energy based on the Unified Field and quantum physics which defines it. NCOW has no matrix, no special tax status, no agenda. It can not be found because it is everywhere and nowhere at the same time. All activities arise from the “individual”, his/her personal connection to Source and the enlightened spiritual impulses deriving there from. NCOW is simply “individuals” spending their own time and money as individuals speaking up for progressive change and a new vision for America…and the world."

Nuff said.

It is interesting that she has not quite organized an actual website for NCOW. Most of the googles go to http://www.progressiveconvergence.com/ .... which has a big headline on top saying "Join the Student Vaccine Liberation Army", plus lots of other anti-vaccine articles. Not exactly without bias.

Oh, and it blasts obnoxious music out of my speakers. Idiotic, plus stupid.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

How sad that a vaccine which protects pregnant women from a potentially fatal flu infection is actively campaigned against by people who imagine things for which there is no real evidence.

Did any of you see Jesse Ventura's CT program on the H1N1 vaccine? He interviewed people (some Dr "hiding in Costa Rica" and our CT friend Alex Jones) who claimed the H1N1 vaccine was supposed to kill 5/6th of the world's population because some secret world cabal doesn't want the masses using up the world's resources. Problem is, Ventura's program didn't air until long after the vaccine had been given to millions around the world. So the program was claiming all the people who got the vaccine should be dead by now.

Now that I think about it, maybe Ventura realized how irresponsible it would have been to air that program while the public health was promoting the vaccine.

 

[trusetheeker]

A new member, trusetheeker, ... that as part of the global conspiracy to foist vaccines upon us, miscarriages caused by the H1N1 vaccine have been ignored.

Trusetheeker cites a claim that there have been "up to 3,587 Miscarriages from H1N1 Vaccine". Though, one is obliged to point out that this is the extreme upper limit of an uncontrolled estimate for an absolute number without any reference to the size of the denominator that would be needed to estimate risk. Here's a link to one source for that quotation.

One almost feels pity for trusetheeker that they have brought an elderly three-legged chihuahua to the dogfight, but I feel duty bound to set up the ring and invite the pitbulls of science-based medicine to engage in a little light ripping.

I, for one, had never heard of the National Coalition of Organized Women. Now I have;

"The ... is a verb, an organizing force, a coalescing energy based on the Unified Field and quantum physics which defines it. NCOW has no matrix, no special tax status, no agenda. It can not be found because it is everywhere and nowhere at the same time. All activities arise from the “individual”, his/her personal connection to Source and the enlightened spiritual impulses deriving there from. NCOW is simply “individuals” spending their own time and money as individuals speaking up for progressive change and a new vision for America…and the world."

Nuff said.

Badly Shaved Monkey,

So kind of you to respond to my post.

It's curious that you chose to pick out one specific element of my post for consideration and completely ignore the other points. I'm used to this sort of behaviour in other forums but perhaps I thought a science-based forum would be above such tactics.

There's no need to feel sorry for me as I'm here to learn and any valid argument/evidence presented will only enlighten me. My opinion is merely the conclusion that I reached based on the evidence available to me at any one moment and it is not my intention to defend it to the death. Every new piece of information has the potential to change my mind and that's as it should be.

You quoted from the Eileen Dannemann's bio (see your NCOW link) but didn't see fit to post her reason for keeping NCOW free from non-profit status.

Ms. Dannemann became aware during the Kucinich campaign, that non-profit status hampered the activity of activists and their organizations as it pertained to top down political action. Non–profits were unable to “endorse” candidates even though the candidate supported the very issues that they represented. She found that non-profit organizations were in such fear of losing their tax status that they invariably put more boundaries on their activities than were even required. As individuals, however no such restrictions pertained, hence… the National Coalition of Organized Women (and the men who love us), a coalescing force of like minded, extremely organized individuals.

Free and independent thought is becoming rarer over time and even in our "free" society, there are penalties for going against the grain. If Ms. Dannemann is correct, the threat of losing non-profit tax status is just another method for taming dissent.

I've read ahead on several replies to this thread and with one exception, so far I'm just seeing a number of "we know better" posts with bold claims and no supporting evidence. No doubt the big guns will step in later.

Yours Truly,
Trusetheeker

 

[Estellea]

I've read ahead on several replies to this thread and with one exception, so far I'm just seeing a number of "we know better" posts with bold claims and no supporting evidence. No doubt the big guns will step in later.

Yours Truly,
Trusetheeker

Are you saying that creating your own poll, with no methodology reported, using VAERS and absolutely no confirmatory information is evidence of anything? Why is it that you are so willing to accept such poor-quality information without question but then demand that everyone supply you with impeccable information to the contrary? Didn't you bother to do this work to begin with?

Este

 

[Emet]

It's interesting that you should mention snake oil as the biggest snake oil scam ever is the vaccination industry by which pharma and the medical society both make huge profits.

My flu vaccine cost $30. Do you have evidence for this claim?

This comes as no surprise to those of us who watched the pandemic unfold knowing that it was a scam from the offset. However, it's not an anomaly as the entire modern medical system is based on an illusion that these caring individuals actually understand the true nature of health.

Who is this "us" you speak of?
Evidence? Do you have any idea how epidemiologists go about their jobs?

If they did, would they try to heal the body by administering poisons that you wouldn't give to a healthy person?Trusetheeker

Are you speaking of vaccines? They are not poisons. They do not heal the body. They are preventive in nature.

Do you know anything about the morbidity and mortality of any infectious diseases--especially viruses?

 

[AnnoyingPony]

*Grabs popcorn, soda, and flu-shot*

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

My flu vaccine cost $30. Do you have evidence for this claim?

I charge $20. I could charge $30 because that is what insurers will reimburse. But I have low overhead and mostly long term loyal customers, so I charge $20.

And I have had my vaccination, get one every year. I'll be giving my son his this weekend. He's 21 and I've personally given him a flu vaccine every year of his life.

Three years ago a previously healthy 20 yr old going to the same college as my son, living in the next dorm over contracted influenza and died. I can't tell you how sad I was that boy did not know to get a flu vaccination. It was a needless preventable death. A free vaccine in the case of this kid would have prevented his death. Flu vaccine is free from the student health service at the university my son attends. So very sad.

And in the case of this 20 yr old, he had excellent care at the hospital but there was nothing they were able to do for him. His lungs failed and there was nothing they could do.

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

It's curious that you chose to pick out one specific element of my post for consideration and completely ignore the other points.

Um, I picked out the quantifiable claim that was central to your argument and provided a link to a source that you could not give directly.

You have read the criticism of that claim. You have also been challenged to substantiate your other claims. Please, defend your assertions.

You claim to have a mind open to change. Let's see you demonstrate the validity of that statement.

 

[Andy_Ross]

My Flu shot is free. No doubt the Govt paid a company down the line somewhere to produce the vaccine but they obviously think the cost is outweighed by the benefits or it wouldn't be offered. In the UK Doctors can't offer drugs on the NHS that haven't been approved. News items pop up all the time about new treatments and how NICE won't give them the go ahaed for months or even years sometimes.

How is that a scam?

 

[trusetheeker]

I'm afraid it's more serious than anyone could imagine (even in their wildest delusions ):

Under-lying-H1N1—US Bio-weaponry Program
September 14th, 2009

By Eileen Dannemann, director National Coalition of Organized Women

Establishing bio-weaponry protocol, a fear based national and international dictum, has significantly invaded every State, local and personal body part at break neck speed.

But who realizes the under-lying reality… that is…that the H1N1 pandemic is, simply put, a worldwide consequence management drill for the sole purpose of refining national and worldwide bio-weaponry protocol.

Obviously, viral and pathogenic bio-threat is a real concern advancing from the dark high-security tombs of the Dept. Of Defense (DOD), Human Health Services, (HHS) Centers for Disease Control (CDC), World Health Organization (WHO) and God knows what other agency acronyms are on the short list. The protocols on bio-threat disease and dying have made their way in solid style right down through the official CDC networks, namely, our local Depts. Of Public Health where “bio-security” trained administrators, who are being legislated unprecedented authority over our sovereign personhood, have been in their faceless highly paid places for years now.

More of the conspiracy here.

EMET,

Thanks for this information but unfortunately the link you provided isn't working for me. I'll have a search and see if I can find another source.

I take it that you don't give credence to any of these governments and mad-scientists conspiracy theories which of course would include all of the ones that are now confirmed as true.

For example, the U.S. Public Health Service Syphilis Study at Tuskegee. Bill Clinton's apology to blacks in Alabama who were used for scientific study without their knowledge may have closed the account for this specific abuse of authority but there's plenty more where that came from. Check the CDC's website for clintonp.htm in the tuskegee folder for more information. (I'll soon have 15 posts and can get around this URL limitation!)

The "authorities" prove to us time and time again that they cannot be trusted and yet almost every day, there's another supporter telling us that we should have faith in them. I'm personally dumbfounded by this sheep mentality.

Yours truly,
Trusetheeker

 

[Emet]

EMET,

Thanks for this information but unfortunately the link you provided isn't working for me. I'll have a search and see if I can find another source.

I take it that you don't give credence to any of these governments and mad-scientists conspiracy theories which of course would include all of the ones that are now confirmed as true.

For example, the U.S. Public Health Service Syphilis Study at Tuskegee. Bill Clinton's apology to blacks in Alabama who were used for scientific study without their knowledge may have closed the account for this specific abuse of authority but there's plenty more where that came from. Check the CDC's website for clintonp.htm in the tuskegee folder for more information. (I'll soon have 15 posts and can get around this URL limitation!)

The "authorities" prove to us time and time again that they cannot be trusted and yet almost every day, there's another supporter telling us that we should have faith in them. I'm personally dumbfounded by this sheep mentality.

Yours truly,
Trusetheeker

Sorry the link didn't work. I make it a habit to check my links in the preview panel, and it worked--however, it is not working today. I'll repost it here:

http://www.pandemicfluonline.com/?p=1105

(I found it again by simply copying/pasting the title: "Under-lying-H1N1—US Bio-weaponry Program September 14th, 2009"--it showed back up as the second Google hit-- in case it doesn't work after some time)

I am quite familiar with The Tuskeegee experiment--it lasted way too long, and was criminal. I, for one, am glad the issue belatedly came to light, and Clinton made the public statement he did.

Do you know of anything remotely similar happening today?

I am not a member of the sheeple community. I am a scientist and a skeptic. But once again, you make blanket generalized statements that make you appear to be a conspiracy theory believer.

(BTW, you can either get your post count up by playing in community, or post the url without the http:// (I think).

 

[Eos of the Eons]

In a nutshell, NCOW went dumpster diving in VAERS, created their own poll, banged them together, pulled some correction factors out of their bums and came up with this drek. They made no attempt to ascertain medical records and certainly made no comparisons to national miscarriage rates for the same period. Oh wait, they did and the source is, of course, lying.

Este

NOt only that, but they ignore that pregnant women die more of the flu, and ignore the miscarriage rates of women with the flu! They'd rather lie to sell their alternatives and don't give a rat's *** about pregnant women or unborn babies!