Guiliani Suspended from Practicing Law

I'm pretty sure charges don't work like that. He's not very good at lawyering, is he?

Nope, he isn't; and nope, they don't work that way. A criminal summons must be issued in a timely manner once a criminal indictment is returned. Service of the summons takes as long as it takes. The only option listed in the Arizona Rules of Criminal Procedure is that a summons may be converted to an arrest warrant after suitable efforts toward ordinary service have failed.
 
There are some weird rules about serving papers in some places, where people have gamed the system for a long time. But I wouldn't believe Giuliani has any idea

Indeed, I remember a plot point in one of the Aubrey-Maturin (i.e., Master and Commander) books was that Capt. Aubrey could not be served while on board his ship.

But for a criminal complaint I can't find any rule anywhere that says criminal charges must be dismissed if service of the complaint is not perfected within some arbitrary time limit. Again, in Arizona the prosecutor can petition the judge to issue an arrest warrant if mere service has failed. This indicates the court will just get more aggressive, not throw up its hands in defeat.

Obviously most serious criminal complaints are not served by a polite summons. You are arrested and held in custody, whereupon the "speedy trial" clock starts counting. Arrest warrants are valid until hell freezes over.
 
I'm pretty sure charges don't work like that. He's not very good at lawyering, is he?


He was probably falsely claiming there was a time limit with the expectation that he wouldn't be served until after it, at which point he could try to drum up support by claiming he was being illegally and illegitimately prosecuted.
 
He was probably falsely claiming there was a time limit with the expectation that he wouldn't be served until after it, at which point he could try to drum up support by claiming he was being illegally and illegitimately prosecuted.

I did wonder if that was his, um, "plan" .
 
Couldn't they just nail it to the mast?

More accurately, process servers were not permitted to board Royal Navy vessels for the purpose of serving process on its officers. I have no idea what the pedigree of that privilege is; I would greatly value someone from the U.K. explaining the details. Similarly, Dr. Maturin typically stayed at The Grapes inside the Liberty of the Savoy—also off-limits to process servers. I've read the Wikipedia page regarding what a "liberty" is in U.K. regalian law, and I'm little wiser. Apparently the lords of those properties maintain a degree of sovereignty over it that exceeds (locally) that of the monarch, in whose name indictments are handed down.

Even today, process servers cannot enter private property or use physical force to compel service. But as you say, you can nail the summons to the door from the curtilage.
 
I would not be surprised if there is, just to prove the service is being done properly.

There is apparently a Tik Tok of a group of people standing behind Giuliani singing "Happy Birthday to You," and the process server is one of the singers. Nothing makes me raise a glass faster than to toast someone who is very, very good at his job.
 
There is apparently a Tik Tok of a group of people standing behind Giuliani singing "Happy Birthday to You," and the process server is one of the singers. Nothing makes me raise a glass faster than to toast someone who is very, very good at his job.

That is hilarious.
 
There is apparently a Tik Tok of a group of people standing behind Giuliani singing "Happy Birthday to You," and the process server is one of the singers. Nothing makes me raise a glass faster than to toast someone who is very, very good at his job.

Just hysterical!
 
I love Rudy taunting the Arizona AG at his birthday party only to be served as he was leaving the party an hour later.

Happy Court Date to you
Happy Court Date to you
Happy Court Date *cough* *cough* Rudy
Happy Court Date to you!

(And many mooooooorrrrrreeeeeeee!!!!!!)
 
Not that I'm aware. He posted a tweet showing balloons and revelers laughing. The text said if he wasn't served by the end of the next day,the charges would have to be dismissed. He took down the tweet an hour later.

He also claimed that if they didn't find him in time they'd have to 'admit they can't count votes'.

Now I'm no constitutional scholar, but I'm pretty sure that there's no legal basis for determining the validuty of elections through Trial by Hide & Seek. Even here in the UK, where we have some odd, archaic laws left on the books you'll never hear the leader of the largest party in a newly elected Parliament saying "Close your eyes and count to one hundred and I'll try and get to Buckingham Palace to form a government before the opposition spot me. "
 
More accurately, process servers were not permitted to board Royal Navy vessels for the purpose of serving process on its officers. I have no idea what the pedigree of that privilege is; I would greatly value someone from the U.K. explaining the details. Similarly, Dr. Maturin typically stayed at The Grapes inside the Liberty of the Savoy—also off-limits to process servers. I've read the Wikipedia page regarding what a "liberty" is in U.K. regalian law, and I'm little wiser. Apparently the lords of those properties maintain a degree of sovereignty over it that exceeds (locally) that of the monarch, in whose name indictments are handed down.

Even today, process servers cannot enter private property or use physical force to compel service. But as you say, you can nail the summons to the door from the curtilage.
1. The Liberty of the Savoy, which no longer possesses special status to the same degree, was one of those 'quaint' medieval holdovers. Like marché ouvert (also abolished, 1995).

2. Serving papers on any member of the UK military generally requires the lawyer to communicate with the CO, who will arrange for visitation or have the servee (is that a word? I think it should be) to be available. It's ca complicated and often obstructive process.
Though at lease one base CO was held in contempt a few years ago.

3. Nailing a document to the door of a private structure for the purpose of service is criminal damage, BTW. There was a case over it....
 
1. The Liberty of the Savoy, which no longer possesses special status to the same degree, was one of those 'quaint' medieval holdovers. Like marché ouvert (also abolished, 1995).

Maybe Giuliani can convince the owner of Four Seasons Total Landscaping to declare it an independent duchy for him to hide in.

2. Serving papers on any member of the UK military generally requires the lawyer to communicate with the CO, who will arrange for visitation or have the servee (is that a word? I think it should be) to be available. It's ca complicated and often obstructive process.
Though at lease one base CO was held in contempt a few years ago.

For service of process, the right words are "party" (generic), "defendant" (in that special case), or "person" (as for a witness or person otherwise engaged in the matter in a capacity other than as a party to it.) There appears to be no special legal category to name the subject of a summons or subpoena.

Serving process on a member of the U.S. military is almost as straightforward as service upon a civilian. My impression from O'Brien's novel is that the bar to service on board ship was some sort of privilege. Since O'Brien weaves those mostly archaic aspects of the Napoleonic era into his books effortlessly, I was wondering if it alluded to some privilege particular to a monarchical navy.

3. Nailing a document to the door of a private structure for the purpose of service is criminal damage, BTW. There was a case over it....

Good point. As a matter of fact, when we serve notices on tenants it's taped to the door, not nailed.
 
For service of process, the right words are "party" (generic), "defendant" (in that special case), or "person" (as for a witness or person otherwise engaged in the matter in a capacity other than as a party to it.) There appears to be no special legal category to name the subject of a summons or subpoena.

I guess they can't use "subpoenist".
 
He also claimed that if they didn't find him in time they'd have to 'admit they can't count votes'.

Now I'm no constitutional scholar, but I'm pretty sure that there's no legal basis for determining the validuty of elections through Trial by Hide & Seek.

Indeed, the historical practice rather leaned toward trial in absentia. I'm still struggling to find any basis in law for Giuliani's expressed belief that charges must be dropped if arrest or service of process cannot be perfected within some arbitrary time limit. This is most certainly the opposite of the practice in every American jurisdiction I'm aware of.

There is naturally a statute of limitations limiting when charges can be brought after such time as evidence of them is discovered. But charges are brought by a grand jury in such cases, and have been speedily brought here. The subsequent service of the summons is irrelevant to that. Indeed, the Arizona rules of procedure specify that once an indictment has been handed down, the indictment should be presented as soon as possible to the criminal court, and a summons or warrant issued. This has been done.

After a person is arrested, charges must be brought very shortly—generally within two or three days. After charges are brought, the trial must commence "speedily," (that's in the Constitution), generally within 60-70 days of arrest and confinement. This is the only case in which dismissal of charges is even remotely considered as a consequence. Giuliani has not been arrested. Quite the reverse; charges have been brought.

The rest is basically an ongoing game of hide-and-seek that does not stop simply because the police have tired of it for a time. Many a woeful criminal has set foot in a jurisdiction only to be arrested on long-dormant charges.

And, further yes, I see no rational connection between the inability of the state to catch up to a criminal defendant and its ability—now thoroughly examined in Arizona's case—to conduct an election for President. Rather the opposite: Giuliani has had his chance in several courts to present legally cognizable evidence that any vote tampering occurred to deprive Donald Trump of a fair election to President. He was unable in any of these cases. No rational connection exists between his ongoing allegations and the process of charging him criminally for anything.

Giuliani continues to demonstrate just how increasingly addled he is.

Even here in the UK, where we have some odd, archaic laws left on the books...

I have well-worn printed copies of Erskine May and Glanville Williams, so yes.

The latter helps me a little in my side quest. While thumbing through Williams' The Proof of Guilt, hoping to find some relevant material on the service of a criminal summons and complaint, I arrived at a curious bit of outmoded criminal procedure that helps me in my side quest in this thread. Until 1794, criminal trials had to be concluded in one sitting, no matter how long it took. The infamous trial of Thomas, Lord Cochrane in 1814 more or less adhered to the prior practice. The defense was not able to present its case until after midnight, when the trial had already been going for 15 hours. The court adjourned at 3 AM, only to reconvene at 10 AM for the prosecution's rejoinder, which enjoyed the benefit of sleep. Similarly during this time, juries were charged and then sequestered without food, water, or heat until they reached a verdict. Cochrane's trial was generally seen as a miscarriage of justice, possibly because the jury hastened to any verdict.
The hungry judges soon the sentence sign,
And wretches hang, that jurymen may dine.​

Lord Cochrane is, of course, the model for both O'Brien's Capt. Aubrey and Forester's Horatio Hornblower. O'Brien proudly states that the trial of Lord Cochrane is the model for the trial of Capt. Aubrey in The Reverse of the Medal, but I am unable to find in that work any specifics on the service of process restrictions I alluded to earlier, regarding serving a summons upon an officer on board his own ship. As Aubrey is subject throughout the series to service of private prosecutions and civil matters, I may have to re-read the entire series in order to participate further in this thread. I do, however, have the biography of Cochrane at my disposal and shall probably find more ready sustenance there.
 

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