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Ground level steel beam

And then there's Craig Bartmer - do you by any chance know him?

[SIZE=-1] Former NYPD Officer and 9/11 First Responder Craig Bartmer worked on the rescue operation at Ground Zero. He, like many others who worked to clean Ground Zero, has developed respiratory illnesses as a result of the toxic dust inhaled at the site. Also like many others who were physically affected by the attacks, Craig Bartmer is now combating Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. In this interview he details his eyewitness account of the collapse of World Trade Center Building 7. He also speaks out against the official 9/11 story, the lies told by the EPA about the air quality at Ground Zero and the critical need for a fresh independent investigation into the 9/11 attacks.[/SIZE]

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-2283625397351664218

It's shocking how they covered up the problems with toxicity at ground zero and sent everybody in without the proper equipment, and as a result many have now died and many are dying of asbestosis and similar respiratory problems. No doubt this has been 'debunked'? Care to add your seal of approval and say it ain't so, oh friend of the first reponders?
 
Miss Anthrope said:
BWHAHAHAHA! You called yourself neutral them BOOM. Just like in the Income Tax thread. You didn't look at the page I sent you. You have made up your mind, much like you and your sock on the tax thread. Buhbye!
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I called myself neutral not scooby. You are responding to scooby. Buhbye!
 
scooby said:
And then there's Craig Bartmer - do you by any chance know him?

[SIZE=-1] Former NYPD Officer and 9/11 First Responder Craig Bartmer worked on the rescue operation at Ground Zero. He, like many others who worked to clean Ground Zero, has developed respiratory illnesses as a result of the toxic dust inhaled at the site. Also like many others who were physically affected by the attacks, Craig Bartmer is now combating Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. In this interview he details his eyewitness account of the collapse of World Trade Center Building 7. He also speaks out against the official 9/11 story, the lies told by the EPA about the air quality at Ground Zero and the critical need for a fresh independent investigation into the 9/11 attacks.[/SIZE]

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-2283625397351664218

It's shocking how they covered up the problems with toxicity at ground zero and sent everybody in without the proper equipment, and as a result many have now died and many are dying of asbestosis and similar respiratory problems. No doubt this has been 'debunked'? Care to add your seal of approval and say it ain't so, oh friend of the first reponders?
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Dear rabid, frothing at the mouth, tinfoil hat wearing, demonic worshipper, al queda shill, communist, american hater........(Gee, Robert, don't sugar coat it, how do you really feel about 'scooby doo-doo-peepee pants?)

You are correct. In so many issues within disaster there is always negligence where upon the natural tendency in good people to do good things, helping others, to do stupid things compromising self. 911 is no different. No one new the toxity in the debris field at the time and for some time thereafter.

There was no malovence intended. No coverup of anything.

I've seen this at NASA KSC when several men went into the launch platform to manually safe the orbiter and stack on the pad and many were fallen and a few perished to hydrazine propellant poisoning.

And lastly, why is it in all fields of what I refer as a noun as 'Strange' (UFO world), and the 911 conspiracy world is no different, and it too will now be called 'Strange', as in a noun proper, is when one responds in good faith with a fact, a logical explanation, or whatever the correction, the answer is always laced with some insult, cutting remark, accusation or anything related?

Why not a, "Oh, I see. I wasn't aware of that and I stand corrected." or something akin.

Why is 'conspiracy' and 'Strange' and all the other cultist psychosis rife with truculent adversity to anything and anyone that disagrees.

Concluding, again, you are corrrect, many afflictions from the residue in the WTC debris field----no malfeaseance intended by anyone.

Is that helpful. Have you called Melissa yet FDNY, as suggested, to get it first hand.


Robert A.M. Stephens, LLC ®
NASA Fine Art Documentation Program
Vision Motion Dynamic-FX-FX
http://www.behold-the-rage.com
________________________________
Have Jeep, Have Heart, Will Trave
 
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scooby said:
It is exactly the same as a demolition cut, to allow the beam to slip sideways rather than rest on the beam below.

You will hear many claims on here that it was cut with welding torches during the cleanup by people who do not know this to be a fact yet will claim it is, but as you see, there doesn't seem to be much cleaning up done yet, and there is no noticeable method of access to the steel beam or a platform for somebody to stand on to cut it.

Additionally, you might want to ask yourself what the urgency was in getting into the rubble pile and cutting this steel beam, when the pile is still smoking and everyone else is standing around looking confused. It's got immediate aftermath written all over it.

You can better judge it's scale and the lack of any preparation of the site in this photo, note the firemen climbing next to the beam, the steel is as thick as his upper arm if not thicker ...

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/9/11/214131/pic87932.jpg

Also judging from the thickness of the beam, it looks to be several inches think, you might ask yourself why somebody with a welding torch would waste time cutting it at that angle when the quickest method would be used in a situation like this - a straight line - I think you have mentioned this.

I worked for several years on and off as a welders mate, and though I am not a welder myself, I can tell you that cutting a steel beam as large as this with an ordinary welding torch would not be as easy or quick a task as you might think, and without assistance the cut would not be uniform. I've seen people clean up things by cutting with welding torches and the result is normally quite a jagged cut unless care is taken to produce a straight line - again, no need for that in this situation.

There were several other cuts like this found, these are mentioned in an excellent documentary - 911 Mysteries. Included in that I think, is an excerpt from a TV program where a demolition expert explains why cut's like this are made. I would imagine that everyone in this thread so far is well aware of all this, and could at least concede that it looks like what it looks like.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-6708190071483512003

In addition, do you consider yourself a skeptical person? I know I do, yet I find on here that it is claimed this is not the case. There seems to be some kind of secret exam that you must pass first, after which you don't have to be skeptical about anything anymore, all you need to do is sit back and take delight in making fun of people who think they are. Odd don't you think?
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And this is all according to....which experts?
 
Here's a larger view of the column:
37845fb022a645f5.jpg


This shows something rather interesting-notice that on the upper side and on the diagonal edge away from the camera, the slag is clinging to the inner faces of the steel plates, with no slag visible on the outer face of the diagonally-cut plate closer to the camera, while on the lowest edge it's clinging to the outer face.

If one were applying SuperNanoThermateTM charges to a box column like that, they would presumably all be applied to the accessible outer faces, and if they produced any slag, they should do so in the same way on each side of the column- all on the inner sides or all on the outer sides.

OTOH, what we see would be consistent with the upper and diagonal cuts being made first, the column bent over like a felled tree with the face towards the camera still tying it to the stump, and that face then being cut from the now-exposed inner side, which would be uppermost.

Another interesting thing that can be seen in this larger version of the pic on the Muckraker Report site:
37845fb020213917.jpg


is that slag from the lowest cut appears to have dripped down onto debris outside the column and below the cut. If this is true, the debris had to be there before the slag was produced. Since the debris is from the collapse of the tower, that would rule out the cut being made before the tower had collapsed.

All in all, not only does this picture not provide any support for "controlled demolition" theories, it tends strongly to falsify them.
 
a close up of that photo clearly shows on the left side the jagged undulations of an almost freehand oxygen lance cut. It is obvious you never worked as a welders assistant scooby. Burning through that thickness of steel you wouldn't want to do it level or from below. you could get pockets of molten steel that would blow back at you. And it is quite easy to use almost any object as a guide for a lance or torch. A strap. A length of pipe. A piece of angle iron, Even using the hand railing of an aerial personnel lift You could lay the lance on it. A lift Which BTW is most likely what that cut was made from. It is too hazardous to lay oxygen or acetylene hose on hot smoking debris. Much safer from a lift.
 
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ktesibios said:
Here's a larger view of the column:
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/37845fb022a645f5.jpg[/qimg]

This shows something rather interesting-notice that on the upper side and on the diagonal edge away from the camera, the slag is clinging to the inner faces of the steel plates, with no slag visible on the outer face of the diagonally-cut plate closer to the camera, while on the lowest edge it's clinging to the outer face.

If one were applying SuperNanoThermateTM charges to a box column like that, they would presumably all be applied to the accessible outer faces, and if they produced any slag, they should do so in the same way on each side of the column- all on the inner sides or all on the outer sides.

OTOH, what we see would be consistent with the upper and diagonal cuts being made first, the column bent over like a felled tree with the face towards the camera still tying it to the stump, and that face then being cut from the now-exposed inner side, which would be uppermost.

Another interesting thing that can be seen in this larger version of the pic on the Muckraker Report site:
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/37845fb020213917.jpg[/qimg]

is that slag from the lowest cut appears to have dripped down onto debris outside the column and below the cut. If this is true, the debris had to be there before the slag was produced. Since the debris is from the collapse of the tower, that would rule out the cut being made before the tower had collapsed.

All in all, not only does this picture not provide any support for "controlled demolition" theories, it tends strongly to falsify them.
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It is post like this that inspires me to recommend you should go to work at NASA or the like in failure, or at least deductive analysis. Very well documented, explained, and presented in unbiased technical fashion.

Very well done, indeed!! Have thought of posting this on one of the 'Strange' sites for reaction, if that is possible, without being assailed in some fashion?

And too, according to FDNY, you have presented exactly as it is/was. This photo was taken 3 weeks after 911 day, while first actual dismantling had taken place in certain pre-cleared parts of the debris field of WTC-2.

Excellent!

Robert A.M. Stephens, LLC ®
NASA Fine Art Documentation Program
Vision Motion Dynamic-FX-FX
http://www.behold-the-rage.com

Have Jeep, Have Heart, Will Travel
 
A W Smith said:
a close up of that photo clearly shows on the left side the jagged undulations of an almost freehand oxygen lance cut. It is obvious you never worked as a welders assistant scooby. Burning through that thickness of steel you wouldn't want to do it level or from below. you could get pockets of molten steel that would blow back at you. And it is quite easy to use almost any object as a guide for a lance or torch. A strap. A length of pipe. A piece of angle iron, Even using the hand railing of an aerial personnel lift You could lay the lance on it. A lift Which BTW is most likely what that cut was made from. It is too hazardous to lay oxygen or acetylene hose on hot smoking debris. Much safer from a lift.
Click to expand...

No I don't lie, I had a friend who was a Pipe Fitter Welder and every summer during university I would work for him for a couple of months. Now if I was the dishonest type, it would be the merest hop skip and jump to claim I was the one holding the torch, but no, I was the one holding the pipe and carrying stuff.

Ever heard of an "acetylene bomb" - a common prank in the industry?
It may be called something else in the states, but anyone who knows anything about welding will know what I'm talking about.
 
scooby said:
Ever heard of an "acetylene bomb" - a common prank in the industry?
It may be called something else in the states, but anyone who knows anything about welding will know what I'm talking about.
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Yes it is a large balloon or condom filled with acetylene. we set one off in a race car fabrication shop I worked at in the eighties.
 
RAMS said:
Dear rabid, frothing at the mouth, tinfoil hat ...
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He he he, just as I thought.
Move along nothing to see here.

It's established fact that they lied about the toxicity of the ground zero site.
Everyone knows the place was full of asbestos - and knew at the time, it was no secret.
Everyone saw the place turned to dust.
Whats going to be in the dust Sherlock?
Where's all the asbestos going to go?

Utter spoon bender.
 
scooby said:
No I don't lie, I had a friend who was a Pipe Fitter Welder and every summer during university I would work for him for a couple of months. Now if I was the dishonest type, it would be the merest hop skip and jump to claim I was the one holding the torch, but no, I was the one holding the pipe and carrying stuff.

Ever heard of an "acetylene bomb" - a common prank in the industry?
It may be called something else in the states, but anyone who knows anything about welding will know what I'm talking about.
Click to expand...


That's great stuff. Super. Okay, now, FDNY confirmed that 'I' beam was a torch cut, among many others in that same photo if one blows it up with no low res pixel corruption, and this was 3 weeks after 911 day, and this was at WTC-2 and the beginning of structural dismantling.

Please address this post and the fact I have made the calls and confirmed the issue as well as provided contact info FDNY and a contact person including email for same.

Please do not be completely a member of 'Strange' and respond to this post.

Thank you in advance,


Robert A.M. Stephens, LLC ®
NASA Fine Art Documentation Program
Vision Motion Dynamic-FX-FX
http://www.behold-the-rage.com

Have Jeep, Have Heart, Will Trave
 
RAMS said:
That's great stuff. Super. Okay, now, FDNY confirmed that 'I' beam was a torch cut, among many others in that same photo if one blows it up with no low res pixel corruption, and this was 3 weeks after 911 day, and this was at WTC-2 and the beginning of structural dismantling.

Please address this post and the fact I have made the calls and confirmed the issue as well as provided contact info FDNY and a contact person including email for same.

Please do not be completely a member of 'Strange' and respond to this post.

Thank you in advance,


Robert A.M. Stephens, LLC ®
NASA Fine Art Documentation Program
Vision Motion Dynamic-FX-FX
http://www.behold-the-rage.com

Have Jeep, Have Heart, Will Trave
Click to expand...

Are you talking to me?
 
Augustine said:
I would be :jaw-dropp if scoob actually admitted error. He does not seem to possess the integrity to do so.
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I got to give scooby credit for being resilient. He's gotten intellectually smacked around all day yet he keeps staggering to his feet ready to accept another whack.

By resilient, I mean really stupid
 
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