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Gravity is Bunk!!!

Back to gravity then. Why is it "spooky"? "Spooky" implies that we barely know anything about it.

"Spooky action at a distance" is a famous phrase Einstein coined to describe the effects of quantum entanglement, which are instantaneous (they "travel" faster than light). This bothered him, since he had discovered special and general relativity, in which all forces - electromagnetic and gravitational - propagate at the speed of light (and must do so to preserve the order of cause and effect). This is in contrast to Newton's theory of gravity in which gravitational influences are instantaneous.

Zeuzzz is a bizarre kind of anti-gravity/pro-electromagnetic crackpot (maybe he had a bad fall as a child). As you can see this particular jab of his was comically inept, so I couldn't resist commenting.
 
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Here's another problem with the way human brains tend to think.

Yes, we are moving about 1,000 miles per hour (at the equator). So we think that's pretty fast. But centrifugal force doesn't depend on the absolute velocity, it cares about the rate of rotation (hence the v/r in wollery's equation, another way to write that equation is w2r, where w = v/r = rate of rotation) and that's only one rotation every 24 hours.

Spin the tennis ball at a constant rate of once per 24 hours and you wouldn't see any paint flying off of it either.

To my amazement, it took 13 replies first. Post #8 probably hit on this, but it was not explained succinctly in laymen's terms, which is all it would have taken.
 
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Try attaching a weight to a piece of string and then spinning it around your head. The weight doesn't fly away because the piece of string stops it, pulling it back, so instead it goes in a circle.

Well, gravity is like that string, it's a force that pulls us down to the ground and keeps us anchored there, so we continue to spin with the Earth. The same thing keeps the Earth in orbit around the Sun.

Yes, but I can see a string. What is the "string" on earth? The way I think of it is the earth has got to be pulling you towards the core some way, but if its spinning whats pulling us towards the core?
 
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It is to take advantage of the "free" delta-v from the earth's rotation that rockets are launched to the east from as near the equator as practical. In the absence of air, it would be best to launch them tangentially to the ground, too.
Oooooh...that got me thinking...

...if the rockets are taking some of their energy from the earth's motion...then does that not mean that every time a rocket is launched, a tiny amount of the earth's rotational energy is lost? So, if we launch enough rockets, we could make the earth stand still? ;):D

Everyone is screaming about Global Warming...but why is everyone so suspiciously silent about this apparently deliberate plot to make our planet stop spinning? If earth stopped spinning, one side would be plunged into eternal night, an endless winter...come on folks, compared to this, global warming is nothing!
 
Worm's post basically explained it all pretty well, but I thought I'd add something anyway. The theory we have to explain how things move is called Newtonian Mechanics. Well, it works well enough for things from the size of dust motes to the size of stars anyway. In order to work out how things move, you've got to consider ALL the forces acting on those things, not just some of them. "Centrifugal force"* is slinging you away from the earth, but "gravitational force" is pulling you towards the earth, and the latter is much much stronger than the former.

If we could spin the earth faster and faster, the centrifugal force would increase. Eventually it would indeed become so large that it would be bigger than the gravitational force keeping us down, and so we would be slung off into space. As would pieces of the earth itself I expect.


*nitpick - "centrifugal force" is a very mildly dodgy concept, you really need to learn about frames of reference in order to understand it properly, but that's not really something to go into here.

Yeah, This question like all that seem simple, is just too far over my head I think. I just can't picture in my head what exactly causes gravity. Does each planet have its own gravity and if so what controls their gravity (sun??).

BTW, can I put some of you guys on my texting list. Might need help in physics next semester...hehe
 
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Gravitational force;

F = GMm/r2
Maybe more useful to calculate the surface gravitational acceleration of the tennis ball;

a = GM/r2
Mass of tennis ball (M) = 57g,
radius of tennis ball (r) = 3.18cm,
G = 6.67300×10-11 m3kg-1s-2
Converting to SI units;
M = 0.057kg,
r=0.0318m,

a = 6.67300×10-11 × 0.057 / (0.0318)2
a = 3.80361×10-12 / 1.444×10-3
a = 2.6341×10-9 ms-2
Compare to surface gravity of the Earth, g = 9.81 ms-2
That's a factor of almost 4 billion difference.

Compare now to the centrifugal acceleration the paint experiences. For ease of calculation we'll assume that the surface of the ball rotates at 1ms-1
a = v2 / r

a = 12 / 0.0318

a = 31 ms-2
So, the gravitational acceleration due to the tennis ball is more than 11 billion times smaller than the centrifugal acceleration. It's no wonder the paint flies off!

OHHHHHHHH.........:boggled:
 
Spin the tennis ball at a constant rate of once per 24 hours and you wouldn't see any paint flying off of it either.

But that's not really the right comparison. As you pointed out, centrifugal force scales as w^2 r. Since a tennis ball is (very roughly) 100,000 times smaller in radius than the earth, it would need to be spinning three or four hundred times as fast to make the force equal to what it is on earth.

So a tennis ball rotating once every few minutes is the right analogy.
 
Yes, but I can see a string. The way I think of it is the earth has got to be pulling you towards the core some way, but if its spinning whats pulling us towards the core?

Gravity. The spin doesn't affect the gravitational pull at all - it arises from the mass of the earth.

Imagine sticking two refrigerator magnets together and then spinning them. They still stick together (unless you spun them really, really, fast), right?
 
"Spooky action at a distance" is a famous phrase Einstein coined to describe the effects of quantum entanglement, which are instantaneous (they "travel" faster than light). This bothered him, since he had discovered special and general relativity, in which all forces - electromagnetic and gravitational - propagate at the speed of light (and must do so to preserve the order of cause and effect). This is in contrast to Newton's theory of gravity in which gravitational influences are instantaneous.

Zeuzzz is a bizarre kind of anti-gravity/pro-electromagnetic crackpot (maybe he had a bad fall as a child). As you can see this particular jab of his was comically inept, so I couldn't resist commenting.

I knew that "spooky effects" described quantum entanglement but gravity does not involve quantum entanglement. Hence my confusion.
 
Yeah, This question like all that seem simple, is just too far over my head I think. I just can't picture in my head what exactly causes gravity. Does each planet have its own gravity and if so what controls their gravity (sun??).

ALL mass has gravity. The Sun has gravity, the Earth has gravity, people have gravity, and tennis balls have gravity. However, the strength of that gravity is determined by two things:

1) The more mass, the stronger the pull of gravity.
2) The farther away the mass, the weaker the pull of gravity.

The Earth is really really massive so it keeps you in place easily. Even though the spin of the Earth is trying to whip you into space, the gravity of the Earth is much stronger.

The tennis ball is small so its gravity is very small. The force of gravity acting on the paint isn't enough to keep it on the ball.
 
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"Spooky action at a distance" is a famous phrase Einstein coined to describe the effects of quantum entanglement, which are instantaneous (they "travel" faster than light). This bothered him, since he had discovered special and general relativity, in which all forces - electromagnetic and gravitational - propagate at the speed of light (and must do so to preserve the order of cause and effect). This is in contrast to Newton's theory of gravity in which gravitational influences are instantaneous.

Zeuzzz is a bizarre kind of anti-gravity/pro-electromagnetic crackpot (maybe he had a bad fall as a child). As you can see this particular jab of his was comically inept, so I couldn't resist commenting.


Why do you keep talking about EM forces on a thread about gravity? I never mentioned it once, you seem to have implied that in your head, and i'm sure that the people in this thread do not appreciate your attempts to derail this thread into a debate about EM forces (I never said that 'spooky action at a distance' does not encompass of EM forces, you, yet again, seem to have implied this yourself in your head)

And the term crackpot, is not a very nice term, is it? really? Have I said anything demeaning against you? No. And I wont. No one made any scientific progress by making personal jibes at people who they dont agree with on everything, did they, Sol?

And its got nothing to do with Einsteins use of this term, where the word 'spooky' comes from, that was mainly about quantum effects.

Back to gravity anyway....

The basic premise of gravity is that all mass attracts, but the actual mechanism by which this works is still an open question. People have searched for a particle explanation, mainly the 'graviton', but currently the only description is utilizing the metaphysical gravitational field.

This 'action at a distance' effect is shown in other forces laws, mainly the laws of Newton, Coulomb, Ampere and Weber. Webers electrodynamics lead to the finite propagation of infinite signals, prior to the invention of maxwells equations, for example. For example, how could the sun know how much mass there is on earth in order to apply to correct force to it? How is this force transmitted from the sun to the Earth? Can a body of finite dimensions act on other bodies in locations where the first body is not touching? These are quite philosophical questions that have no definitive answer, these questions were the basis of Huygens and Leibniz ciritisms.

Burniston brown made some interesting comments on this in the introduction of his book on action at a distance;

It was many years later that I realised that action-at-a-distance is not just another theory of the propagation of a force like ballistic propagation, or waves in an ether. I decided to make this point in a lecture at Oxford by showing the effect of a magnet on another, suspended magnet. I then pointed out that observable action occurred at an observable distance, so that if any member of the audience said it was not action-at-a-distance it was he who was making hypothesis. No one attempted to deny it. Why should we not admit that, sometimes, what appears to be happening is happening? The refusal to accept action at a distance has lead to all the difficulties and tortuous explanations connected with the ether vortices, waves, twisted space time, warped fields, and many other things - together with abortive experimental efforts to detect them.

The time has surely now come out to cut the Gordian Knot by abolishing all the ethers, abandoning the attribution of physical properties to nothing, and rejecting purely mathematical constructs like space time, that all ultimately result from trying to explain the long unsolved problem of action-at-a-distance."


How does gravity physically work? I Don't have a clue, and neither does anyone else. It just does.
 
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Oooooh...that got me thinking...

...if the rockets are taking some of their energy from the earth's motion...then does that not mean that every time a rocket is launched, a tiny amount of the earth's rotational energy is lost?

Yes indeed. It is the same deal with gravitational slingshots round Jupiter - we're sapping Jupiter's orbital energy in that case!
 
Yeah, This question like all that seem simple, is just too far over my head I think. I just can't picture in my head what exactly causes gravity. Does each planet have its own gravity and if so what controls their gravity (sun??).

BTW, can I put some of you guys on my texting list. Might need help in physics next semester...hehe

You've really hit the heart of the problem here.

First of all, some of the confusion comes from associating the rotation of the Earth with gravity. It has become somewhat entrenched in the communal intelligence that the rotation of the earth and gravity are connected. They aren't. Once you can disassociate them in your mind, it becomes a lot clearer.

The key point that you raised here though is 'what causes gravity', and the answer is 'nobody knows'. There are a few theories floating around, but it's very much up for debate at the minute. (this is, of course, a bit of a generalisation, but I think it's fair)
 
Gravity is a hoax!

Gravity is a gigantic hoax perpetrated by left-wing scientists in order to get more research funding and accomplish social engineering. There is no evidence that it actually exists. Not a single scientist has ever actually observed a graviton!

Gravity proponents claim that gravity must exist because there is no other factor to explain why objects have always been observed to fall downwards. But the lack of an alternative explanation is not proof of a theory.

And what about model results? As an experiment, I held an envelope 6 feet off the ground and let go. It moved in a downward direction and came to rest approximately under the point that I released it. The general downward motion does agree with the theory of gravity. However, the motion did not completely agree with the gravity model. For one thing, the envelope did not move in a perfectly linear path. There were some horizontal movements (though they appeared to roughly cancel each other out). More importantly, it took over a second to reach the floor. The gravity model predicts a time of about 0.61 seconds. Since the model did not accurately predict the observed motion, the model is clearly not a valid depiction of reality and cannot be used to prove that gravity exists.

THE SCIENCE IS NOT SETTLED!!!
 
Yeah, This question like all that seem simple, is just too far over my head I think. I just can't picture in my head what exactly causes gravity. Does each planet have its own gravity and if so what controls their gravity (sun??).

BTW, can I put some of you guys on my texting list. Might need help in physics next semester...hehe

You're misunderstanding. The centrifugal force caused by the rotation of the earth is NOT gravity. Earths rotation has nothing to do with it.

If you want to know what causes gravity you need to study till you're able to understand Einsteins geometric theory of gravitation, aka general relativity. Theory guaranteed to annoy anyone looking for gravitons :) there are other theories, but they're either way over my head or highly implausible I haven't decided which.
 
Gravity is a gigantic hoax perpetrated by left-wing scientists in order to get more research funding and accomplish social engineering. There is no evidence that it actually exists. Not a single scientist has ever actually observed a graviton!

Gravity proponents claim that gravity must exist because there is no other factor to explain why objects have always been observed to fall downwards. But the lack of an alternative explanation is not proof of a theory.

And what about model results? As an experiment, I held an envelope 6 feet off the ground and let go. It moved in a downward direction and came to rest approximately under the point that I released it. The general downward motion does agree with the theory of gravity. However, the motion did not completely agree with the gravity model. For one thing, the envelope did not move in a perfectly linear path. There were some horizontal movements (though they appeared to roughly cancel each other out). More importantly, it took over a second to reach the floor. The gravity model predicts a time of about 0.61 seconds. Since the model did not accurately predict the observed motion, the model is clearly not a valid depiction of reality and cannot be used to prove that gravity exists.

THE SCIENCE IS NOT SETTLED!!!

Um.....joking...?
 
Yeah, This question like all that seem simple, is just too far over my head I think. I just can't picture in my head what exactly causes gravity. Does each planet have its own gravity and if so what controls their gravity (sun??).

Gravity is nothing more than a simple 3-dimensional warp in the space-time continuum caused by the presence of matter in the vicinity of the gravitational field, just like acceleration, only not as linear.

I hope this clears things up.

(I also hope you're good at word problems in algebra. You'll need it.)
 
Gravity. The spin doesn't affect the gravitational pull at all - it arises from the mass of the earth.

Imagine sticking two refrigerator magnets together and then spinning them. They still stick together (unless you spun them really, really, fast), right?

AH HAAA!! That I can imagine! Okay so the magnets have a force keeping them together even while spinning. We know they are powered by the magnets energy.

Now Im curious. If the magnets are holding together because of their "energy" and this energy opposes the rotation, What do I determine is the cause of gravity on earth. What is the source of the gravitational pull? Does it come from the center of the earth as I would imagine?
(this question is hard to word for me to word properly, sorry)
 
The earth's gravity comes from the totality of the mass of the earth.
 
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