Golden Audio correspondance.

[Neutiquam Erro]

Is somebody confusing sound waves with electromagnetic waves, by any chance?

And atmospheric absorption of sound waves increases with increasing frequency: Measurements of atmospheric attenuation at ultrasonic frequencies and the significance for echolocation by bats.

I suspect that GHz sound waves wouldn't get very far...

Well, naturally! The high frequency sound waves are absorbed into the air, thereby inducing quantum resonances in the molecules in suspension. This means that the air in the room becomes dynamically consonant across the full range of modalities present in the audible components of the musical source. By thus activating the sonic transmission medium the "Ultra Tweeter" facilitates an unprecedented level of musical accuracy and soundstage precision.

Hey! This is kind of fun!

 

[Bronze Dog]

Science, I say!

 

[Ducky]

2 days and counting...

 

[rwguinn]

Well, naturally! The high frequency sound waves are absorbed into the air, thereby inducing quantum resonances in the molecules in suspension. This means that the air in the room becomes dynamically consonant across the full range of modalities present in the audible components of the musical source. By thus activating the sonic transmission medium the "Ultra Tweeter" facilitates an unprecedented level of musical accuracy and soundstage precision.

Hey! This is kind of fun!

However, the "sound" waves are produced by electrons (or your favorite theory and nomeclature) moving through a conductor. Last I checked, that generates electro-magnetic pulses.
I always was under the impression that that was what we call an "Antenna"

 

[Ducky]

I've sent a follow up email.

Dear Golden Audio,

I am still waiting for answers to the below email.

I am also adding one further question.

Since your Ultra Tweeters broadcast frequencies in the L band, and in America the L Band is reseved for Military Broadcasts, have you obtained permission from the FCC to broadcast at this frequency range?

I am concerned your device may interfere with Military broadcasts.

Thank you for your time.

Still not holding my breath...

 

[Ducky]

And one more letter sent...

This time to the FCC.

We'll see if I get any responses now.

To whom it may concern,

I am an audio engineer and in my line of work I come across many new products touted to be the next great thing. One of them is Golden Audio's "Ultra Tweeter." Since, from what I can tell, most of their products are the audio equivalent of snake oil and functionally do nothing to actually improve audio quality I generally ignore companies like this. However, their "Ultra Tweeter" is touted to actually broadcast in the microwave range. They claim this improved the audio quality of your stereo, but anyone with even a rudamentary knowledge of science can tell this is a bogus claim. I'll quote the description on their website:

"These remarkable speakers, sold in pairs, operate at extremely high frequencies -- much higher than the audio band - actually in the microwave band, above 1 Gigahertz (GHz). The Ultra Tweeters are connected to the output terminals of existing speakers with speaker cables - preferably light, flexible ones - since the Ultra Tweeters themselves are quite light. Ultra Tweeter principle of operation is very unconventional. They don't generate sound in the audio band, or even in the 20-100 KHz band like super-tweeters, but function in the Gigahertz frequency band (normally used for satellite and microwave communications). Ultra Tweeters organize and improve the energy flow in signal conductors as well as the internal wirings of speaker drivers, making the audio system perform more efficiently and synergistically."

Link to the website: http://www.dhcones.com/otheracc.html

A couple of points of interest in their claims should be clarified. L band (20-cm radar long-band) is a portion of the microwave band of the electromagnetic spectrum ranging roughly from 0.39 to 1.55 GHz. It is used by some communications satellites, and by terrestrial Eureka 147 digital audio broadcasting (DAB). In the United States, the L band is held by the military for telemetry, thereby forcing digital radio to in-band on-channel (IBOC) solutions.

My question is simple. Since this "tweeter" is admitted by the manufacturer to broadcast in the microwave range, do they have an FCC license for the operation of this product? Secondly, despite their dubious claims that this could improve audio quality of a stereo system, this product is possibly infringing on military frequencies. Is there any circumstance that would ever be allowed in a commercial product? If this product does indeed broadcast in those frequencies then this is basically a crude jamming device ready at the fingertips of anyone who would amplify the signal. That concerns me very much.

I am very interested to know if Golden Audio has FCC permission to broadcast at those frequencies, and if not what action as a concerned citizen I can take to prevent possible harm from misuse of this product.

I can be contacted at the information provided below, or at this email address any time. Thank you for your time.

Regards,

My suspicion is that these tweeters don't actually broadcast anything at all, as they'd need FCC license to do so, and an FCC inquiry would force them to admit that.

I emailed the above letter to the FCC 15 minutes ago.

I'll post all responses here.

 

[Mr. Skinny]

Your letter is very well written.

However, why should the FCC care about going after a company that claims to produce a speaker that can broadcast in a restricted frequency?

Golden Audio simply claims it can broadcast in that range. They aren't guilty of anything simply because they produce equipment that's capable of helping someone break the law (unless, of course you can provide a cite saying that producing the equipment is illegal.)

 

[Ducky]

Your letter is very well written.

However, why should the FCC care about going after a company that claims to produce a speaker that can broadcast in a restricted frequency?

Golden Audio simply claims it can broadcast in that range. They aren't guilty of anything simply because they produce equipment that's capable of helping someone break the law (unless, of course you can provide a cite saying that producing the equipment is illegal.)

Well, for one, anything that sends out radio emissions requires an FCC license to produce and sell. Check the battery case of your mobile or wireless phone and you'll see an FCC id tag number. THis is for anything that broadcasts I haven't seen these up close, but I suspect they don't have an FCC license to produce and sell this device because it doesn't broadcast anything. They do claim it does, and they sell it within the US. That is enough for the FCC to be concerned about interference from this product on military bands. As I pointed out, anyone with rudamentary electronics skills can use this device to interfer (i.e. jam) the signals of military telemetry broadcasts. I would imagine their finding out whether this speaker actually does what it claims is very important.

So either the FCC will tell me, "yes they have a license to operate" or "No they do not" and then go inquire at the company. In order to avoid being fined and dragged through court, Golden Audio would have to admit these speakers don't actually broadcast.

Either way, the question of whether these speakers actually do anything is answered, and if they do, I'm sure the FCC will fine them and get an injunction against the operation of these tweeters. If they don't then Golden Audio gets egg on their face publicly.

 

[Mr. Skinny]

Well, for one, anything that sends out radio emissions requires an FCC license to produce and sell. Check the battery case of your mobile or wireless phone and you'll see an FCC id tag number. THis is for anything that broadcasts

This is sort of my point. A speaker is not, of and by itself, something that can send out radio emissions. By your logic, I should expect to find an FCC ID tag on every wireless phone speaker.

(snipped the rest for now)

 

[Ducky]

This is sort of my point. A speaker is not, of and by itself, something that can send out radio emissions. By your logic, I should expect to find an FCC ID tag on every wireless phone speaker.

(snipped the rest for now) [/B]

Not on the speaker. The device itself should have one though. Remember we're not talking speakers that are audible, so now we're talking broadcasting. That means you need an FCC license. Wireless phones, cell phones (which also operate in the Ghz range), CB radios, two way radios, HAM radios, etc. all have FCC licenses to be produced and sold in America.

 

[Mr. Skinny]

Not on the speaker. The device itself should have one though. Remember we're not talking speakers that are audible, so now we're talking broadcasting. That means you need an FCC license. Wireless phones, cell phones (which also operate in the Ghz range), CB radios, two way radios, HAM radios, etc. all have FCC licenses to be produced and sold in America.

OK, so, by your own admission, the speaker itself doesn't need an FCC ID tag.

I don't argue with you about the other devices and their need to be licensed/ ID'ed, etc.

I agree that any device that used their speaker to broadcast in that range would need to be approved by the FCC, but not the speaker itself.


Edited to add: I guess we agree, so do you think your letter might not be to the appropriate agency?

 

[Ducky]

OK, so, by your own admission, the speaker itself doesn't need an FCC ID tag.

I don't argue with you about the other devices and their need to be licensed/ ID'ed, etc.

I agree that any device that used their speaker to broadcast in that range would need to be approved by the FCC, but not the speaker itself.

Ok I think there's a fundamental problem with calling these things speakers. No speaker can emit in the Ghz range. Golden Audio calls these speakers, however if these things actually do emit in the Ghz range they cannot possibly be speakers. They would therefore be a broadcast device.

That's where I'm headed with this by using the FCC.

 

[Mr. Skinny]

Ok I think there's a fundamental problem with calling these things speakers. No speaker can emit in the Ghz range. Golden Audio calls these speakers, however if these things actually do emit in the Ghz range they cannot possibly be speakers. They would therefore be a broadcast device.

That's where I'm headed with this by using the FCC.

OK. These speakers have their own power supply then and some generator that drives them at the restricted frequencies?

I'm confused. I thought they just hooked up to your sound system and were driven by an amplified input device.

 

[Ducky]

OK. These speakers have their own power supply then and some generator that drives them at the restricted frequencies?

I'm confused. I thought they just hooked up to your sound system and were driven by an amplified input device.

That's the thing, they do just hook up and use whatever speaker level signal is being sent to them. which means one of two things:

1) they have a transformer to convert the signal into the Ghz range, then use a broadcast device and send out Ghz signal, or

2) they do nothing at all.

If it's 1, the FCC will be very interested if they haven't gotten an FCC license for it.

If it's 2, the FCC will get them to admit it under threat of legal action, and then we expose the fraud.

 

[Mr. Skinny]

That's the thing, they do just hook up and use whatever speaker level signal is being sent to them. which means one of two things:

1) they have a transformer to convert the signal into the Ghz range, then use a broadcast device and send out Ghz signal, or

2) they do nothing at all.

If it's 1, the FCC will be very interested if they haven't gotten an FCC license for it.

If it's 2, the FCC will get them to admit it under threat of legal action, and then we expose the fraud.

Fowlsound, I understand your argument, and why you sent the letter to the FCC, but I still think they won't do anything. You seem to agree that the speaker itself doesn't need an FCC ID tag as a transmitting device (unless you are now saying something different), which leads me to believe it is outside of their jurisdiction, until such time as someone hooks them up to and amplifier and provides them with a signal that can be converted into the Ghz range.

 

[Ducky]

Fowlsound, I understand your argument, and why you sent the letter to the FCC, but I still think they won't do anything. You seem to agree that the speaker itself doesn't need an FCC ID tag as a transmitting device (unless you are now saying something different), which leads me to believe it is outside of their jurisdiction, until such time as someone hooks them up to and amplifier and provides them with a signal that can be converted into the Ghz range.

You're missing the point.

If you have a ham radio, that needs an input signal to work (the microphone) but it is still a broadcast device.

This thing, if it is what they say it is is not a speaker, it is a broadcast device. It takes in incoming signal, then converts it to Ghz range and broadcasts it.

Again: not a speaker.

Normal speakers do not need an FCC license. However, anything that converts a signal into a radio emission (in this case into the Ghz microwave range) and then emits that in any form is a broadcast device and requires an FCC license.

In order for ANYthing to emit in the Ghz range in any way that would emit for more than a few inches (ie, computer processors aside) it would have to amplify the signal.

Interestingly, Computer processors also have an FCC tag # as well as microwave ovens.


Edited to add:

So by the logic of it being a broadcast device, Goldne Audio will either have to say it is a transmitter, and get fined, or admit it does nothing.

 

[Paulhoff]

When I was young, hopeful and naïve about humankind, I thought that by the time I was in my 30’s and no later than my 40’s that people’s knowledge about science and how it works would prevail over superstition. Now at I am in my mid 50’s I have more than given up on this ever happing in my lifetime.

I hate to say it, but is this in part because of the Internet, or has the Internet just sped it up. People how have access to more BS then ever, and because it is repeated allover the place on the Internet they how take a lot of BS has facts.

Like a friend of mine how who buys into the cable, and speaker wire BS, because it is all over the place on the Internet. Also I can’t get him to understand that without a DBT he is just fooling himself. Also, we all have heard this before, he tells me “You have to trusts our ears, the ears don’t lie”.

But, for me, the Internet has been more good than bad. I have met James Randi in person (I am in the general area), and have gotten to write to a few people who do know the audio field inside out like JJ.

Show me that there is some hope out there, please.

Paul



P.S. the speaker is pure BS. It does not do a thing but look pretty and take your money. I am an Amateur Radio operator and know for a fact it is more of the audio BS out there.

 

[Mr. Skinny]

You're missing the point.

If you have a ham radio, that needs an input signal to work (the microphone) but it is still a broadcast device.

This thing, if it is what they say it is is not a speaker, it is a broadcast device. It takes in incoming signal, then converts it to Ghz range and broadcasts it.

Again: not a speaker.

Normal speakers do not need an FCC license. However, anything that converts a signal into a radio emission (in this case into the Ghz microwave range) and then emits that in any form is a broadcast device and requires an FCC license.

In order for ANYthing to emit in the Ghz range in any way that would emit for more than a few inches (ie, computer processors aside) it would have to amplify the signal.

Interestingly, Computer processors also have an FCC tag # as well as microwave ovens.


Edited to add:

So by the logic of it being a broadcast device, Goldne Audio will either have to say it is a transmitter, and get fined, or admit it does nothing.

Fowlsound, I suppose I must be missing the point somehow.

For now, I'll bow to you as the expert and re-read this thread tomorrow at work. Perhaps, when rested and totally sober, I'll get what you are saying.

It's moot point anyhow, since you already sent the letter.

Do let us know what, if any, answer you get from the FCC.

BTW, have you corresponded much with jj? He's in the audio business as well.

For now, goodnight.

 

[Ducky]

When I was young, hopeful and naïve about humankind, I thought that by the time I was in my 30’s and no later than my 40’s that people’s knowledge about science and how it works would prevail over superstition. Now at I am in my mid 50’s I have more than given up on this ever happing in my lifetime.

I hate to say it, but is this in part because of the Internet, or has the Internet just sped it up. People how have access to more BS then ever, and because it is repeated allover the place on the Internet they how take a lot of BS has facts.

Like a friend of mine how who buys into the cable, and speaker wire BS, because it is all over the place on the Internet. Also I can’t get him to understand that without a DBT he is just fooling himself. Also, we all have heard this before, he tells me “You have to trusts our ears, the ears don’t lie”.

But, for me, the Internet has been more good than bad. I have met James Randi in person (I am in the general area), and have gotten to write to a few people who do know the audio field inside out like JJ.

Show me that there is some hope out there, please.

Paul



P.S. the speaker is pure BS. It does not do a thing but look pretty and take your money. I am an Amateur Radio operator and know for a fact it is more of the audio BS out there.

I know the speaker is BS, but with the claims they're making they made one mistake : They gave me something specific to take to the FCC. Now the FCC can say "Are these broadcast devices?" and they'll have to own up to the fraud.


There is some hope out there...

Some...

 

[Ducky]

Fowlsound, I suppose I must be missing the point somehow.

For now, I'll bow to you as the expert and re-read this thread tomorrow at work. Perhaps, when rested and totally sober, I'll get what you are saying.

It's moot point anyhow, since you already sent the letter.

Do let us know what, if any, answer you get from the FCC.

BTW, have you corresponded much with jj? He's in the audio business as well.

For now, goodnight.

Sleep well.

For reference tomorrow, here is an adobe vcersion of the allocation of frequency spectrums per the FCC. The reason why it is their job is that everything that emits a frequency in these spectrums is licensed.

If the speaker actually does emit (which I doubt) at 1+ Ghz the FCC will be all over it.

Link