God's purpose

Getting back to God's purpose, I don't think there is one, at least not one that involves us specifically. I'm going with the assumption here that the creator is absolutely nothing like us, we might just be a tiny cog in the real organism of interest, for example let's say it's planet Earth.

We think of our selves as self aware and as something unique in the universe. What if we are extremely limited in what we can perceive and have no clue that there is much more to reality than we can observe. That wouldn't make us particularly advanced. We might be self aware in a limited way but we wouldn't/couldn't perceive the total environment.

Think of the small amount of time that we've existed compared to the age of the Earth, compared to everything in the cosmos. Evidently everything worked just fine without us before we got here.
 
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Navigator said:
"What importance are we - the human animal closely related to the ape - in relation to any 'purpose of god'?"

I don't think we are something unique in the universe - I know that some do think this because there is no evidence to the contrary, but realistically we are not likely the only planet in the entire universe which is life bearing...statistically there are probably millions of such planets or even billions.
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There you go again, trying to sneak that thing about us being somehow different to apes in again. We are apes Navigator!:mad:

Contrary to your statement I believe we are unique in the universe. The may be millions, or billions, of other planets with life out there but they would be different to us. They could not be 100% identical.
 
Navigator said:
We know that dinosaurs were the prevalent species at one time. Those lizards were around a lot longer than we have been. What 'purpose' would they have been to 'god'?

Well, what purpose have they been for us? What have we been able to achieve because they once existed?
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Were you just lucky with that rhetorical flourish, or did you have that planned?

We were able to go to the moon because dinosaurs once existed.

The first stage of the Saturn V moon rocket was partially powered by dead dinosaurs made into kerosene.
http://www.space.com/18422-apollo-saturn-v-moon-rocket-nasa-infographic.html

Except the common belief that crude oil (and its refined products) came from dinosaurs has been discredited, and they came from animals and plants older than dinosaurs.
http://www.fe.doe.gov/education/energylessons/coal/gen_howformed.html

If that was a planned rhetorical flourish, it was a very good swing and a miss.
 
Pup said:
Were you just lucky with that rhetorical flourish, or did you have that planned?

We were able to go to the moon because dinosaurs once existed.

The first stage of the Saturn V moon rocket was partially powered by dead dinosaurs made into kerosene.
http://www.space.com/18422-apollo-saturn-v-moon-rocket-nasa-infographic.html

Except the common belief that crude oil (and its refined products) came from dinosaurs has been discredited, and they came from animals and plants older than dinosaurs.
http://www.fe.doe.gov/education/energylessons/coal/gen_howformed.html

If that was a planned rhetorical flourish, it was a very good swing and a miss.
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Well Pup, thanks for the lesson but you seemed to have missed my point? If so then you have nonetheless supported my assertion re 'things are built on things...as is evident. Plants are no less important than dinosaurs ;)
 
Thor 2 said:
:mad:
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Breathe in...breathe out...

Contrary to your statement I believe we are unique in the universe. The may be millions, or billions, of other planets with life out there but they would be different to us. They could not be 100% identical.
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I agree Everything in this universe is unique and individual Thor. You need to perhaps force yourself to read posts in their completeness...go and try again and look for where I was directly speaking about the 'we are not unique' in the sense of apparent purposelessness of conscious life existing in the universe.

Also my comment was directed toward those who generally argue that there is nothing unique or special about our existence. Compared to what exactly?

So I agree with you that we are unique and I think it is a healthy position to have and to build on in relation to purpose and reason for being.
 
ynot said:
So why call it "GOD"? Why not call it "science"?
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Because it might be that it is GOD doing the science. That should have been evident in my post. Maybe you should get out of the habit of quoting parts of a post and then asking questions which the post as a whole already answered.

:thumbsup: = good idea.
 
Navigator said:
Because it might be that it is GOD doing the science. That should have been evident in my post. Maybe you should get out of the habit of quoting parts of a post and then asking questions which the post as a whole already answered.

:thumbsup: = good idea.
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Sorry, my bad. I forgot for a second that you're a theist.
 
Humans look for evidence for things like God's purpose outside of themselves. If anything like a creator or primary source of creativity exists the only way I think we will ever see it is if we some how evolve the insight to see it within ourselves. Maybe that is what is meant when the bible says we are created in his image. It could possibly be referring to our potential to evolve and create our own world just as we we were created.
 
Jodie said:
Humans look for evidence for things like God's purpose outside of themselves. If anything like a creator or primary source of creativity exists the only way I think we will ever see it is if we some how evolve the insight to see it within ourselves. Maybe that is what is meant when the bible says we are created in his image. It could possibly be referring to our potential to evolve and create our own world just as we we were created.
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Yep - might well be. I don't personally think that this is necessarily a theist insight...although I have seen that it is quite an acceptable notion with some people calling themselves 'spiritual' and many of them don't think of themselves as theists...when being an aspect of 'god' becomes something one is (as an idea) it sorta veers well away from traditional theist dogmas in general with the traditional 'obey god worship god adore god we are not worthy' type thinking.

Some even think that Jesus referred to humans as being 'gods' and that Tehillim - Psalms - Chapter 82 infers that we are...but we generally don't contemplate it, know it, comprehend it or otherwise understand what it means.

I think withINsight is indeed the key. Perhaps a fearful place to go...but perhaps too, a surprising one at that.

Now who is to say that if realization that the idea might be real, that looking and seeing evidence for things like God's purpose outside of ones self isn't a natural extension of that insight?
 
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Navigator said:
Also my comment was directed toward those who generally argue that there is nothing unique or special about our existence. Compared to what exactly?
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This is a conflation of terms. Within the context that you've presented, unique <> special.

Unique means different from all others - there's nothing else just like it. humans are unique among the animals on earth. Chimpanzees are also unique. So are bird-eating tarantulas.

Special, however, means that it is extraordinary or exceptional. In the context you've presented, it means that there's some "higher purpose" for humans that sets them apart from all other animals. This is the bit that most of the participants in this thread seem to disagree with.
 
Navigator said:
Jodie said:
Humans look for evidence for things like God's purpose outside of themselves. If anything like a creator or primary source of creativity exists the only way I think we will ever see it is if we some how evolve the insight to see it within ourselves. Maybe that is what is meant when the bible says we are created in his image. It could possibly be referring to our potential to evolve and create our own world just as we we were created.
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Yep - might well be. I don't personally think that this is necessarily a theist insight...although I have seen that it is quite an acceptable notion with some people calling themselves 'spiritual' and many of them don't think of themselves as theists...when being an aspect of 'god' becomes something one is (as an idea) it sorta veers well away from traditional theist dogmas in general with the traditional 'obey god worship god adore god we are not worthy' type thinking.
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:confused: Except it is literally a theist idea. Not figuratively, literally. It presumes the existence of an intelligent and purposeful creator or humans.

It may not necessarily be abrahamic, but it's unquestionably theist. The idea of humans as gods is also, btw, an intrinsic part of hinduism, if memory serves. Everyone is an aspect of god, all living creatures are part of Brahma.
 
Yeah, I'm a theist of sorts, I guess. I do think we are created beings but I seriously doubt that the purpose that we attribute to that creation is what religions assume it is , or whether it has any purpose at all to begin with, or if a sentient source of creation does exists.

If you look at the whole of reality, including what can't be seen such as the cause for gravity, as an example, all of this good/evil stuff doesn't make any sense. It's just a matter of recycling matter over and over again to create new forms, kind of like a kaleidoscope.
 
Jodie, I have no problem with someone saying that they are a theist and then making statements that are consistent with that position.

I do have a problem with self-proclaimed agnosticism with a predisposition to give supernatural ideas the benefit of the doubt.

That's not being agnostic, it's being gullible.
 
jimbob said:
Jodie, I have no problem with someone saying that they are a theist and then making statements that are consistent with that position.

I do have a problem with self-proclaimed agnosticism with a predisposition to give supernatural ideas the benefit of the doubt.

That's not being agnostic, it's being gullible.
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I have a problem with self-proclaimed agnostics claiming that they're neither theist nor atheist and that they're superior to both.
 
Russel's Teapot, what constitutes being theist,...are in what way relevant to the thread subject 'gods purpose'? It seems that the focus of the thread itself is on a particular idea of god (the abrahamic one) that the atheists in particular want to solely focus on - as recent posts mentioning other ideas of god have been removed from this thread.

Fair enough. Thor 2 did say he was focused on that one particular idea of god...which from my own studies is just an aspect of the idea of god [and the subsequent purpose] that interests me.

The purpose of the abrahamic god is unclear due to the nature of the three organised religions and the subsets therein claiming to be 'doing his will' and perhaps there is no purpose in relation to that.
 
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