God's purpose

16.5 said:
Well, it is indeed hubristic to talk about what is god's purpose...
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Why should it be? Isn't a wise, fair, benevolent god also transparent to those he created and is toying with? If not, why not? What is he hiding?

Or maybe a better question is what are his followers hiding? Are there certain questions they don't want to be quizzed about because they don't have the answers?

...he is the alpha and omega, "I am who am."
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Non sequitur. That doesn't explain why the Christian god cannot be questioned regarding his motives. In fact, it comes across sounding a lot like "sit down and shut up, that's why." Not really the sort of statement to inspire confidence in followers and would-be followers.

...when ever a selective editor declares something either a platitude or hubristic...
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Whoops, your obsession is showing.
 
Here is another one: god's plan for is to give us good things, especially everlasting life.

Nice!

/it seems the editorial mechanic-tizer now chops sentences right in half. That is damn fine selective editing
 
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16.5 said:
Here is another one: god's plan for is to give us good things, especially everlasting life.
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Well, I asked before if believing in Jesus would make me rich. Or grant me a nice 50-year-old scotch. Any of that in the cards?

As for "everlasting life" or "eternal life," I want more details. If there's no existence after normal biological death, then I couldn't care less. When I die, there won't be a consciousness afterward to wonder what happened and what's next. Eternal life doing what? And what does god get out of it?
 
JayUtah said:
You still haven't answered the pertinent questions. What did Jesus say about those who strain at a gnat and swallow a camel?
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Sniff... Non sequitur.

Say, what has that got to do with god's purpose. Gotta run that through the mechanical editor?
 
16.5 said:
Say, what has that got to do with god's purpose.
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My questions dealt with how a plan to discuss god's purpose more inclusively among theists and atheists would involve eliminating arguments that had as their premise the non-existence of god. It's certainly more relevant than your pages-long obsession with me personally.

Gotta run that through the mechanical editor?
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Ongoing sick fixation noted. I guess anything to avoid having to answer any real questions.
 
JayUtah said:
, I s. God is love, but he is also leprosy and prenatal pancreatic cancer.
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You guys probably know my body is messed up. I have multiple genetic disorders, spinal cord injury, I'm even dyslexic! Like seriously, it is all broke. My ****'s ********** up, as the great sage Warren Zevon said.

What you do not know is my pastor held me up to the congregation of God's glory. He did this to me to use me for his glory. That's the justification. That's why I am 38 years old in constant, crushing, blinding pain every moment of every day. That's why my life was taken away from me, all my dreams crushed, everything about me reduced to this body and what it feels like letting me do any given day.

**** God's glory. God can kiss my ass if he thinks I am going to praise him for breaking me. And I did, at first! I was totally plaster on that koolaid at the time I got hurt.

What kind of individual does something like this to a person, and expects to be praised for it? A sadist. A disgusting, vile, self centered, reprehensible piece of ****. Thats who.

Gods purpose, as Mother Theresa so clearly stated, was for us to suffer.
. Pain and suffering have come into your life, but remember pain, sorrow, suffering are but the kiss of Jesus - a sign that you have come so close to Him that He can kiss you.
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Let me ask you this: if you have a person in your life who makes you hurt, and who enjoys your pain, do you fall on your knees and say "please sir, may I have another"?

If the god of Christians exists, he can bite me.
 
JayUtah said:
My questions dealt with how a plan to discuss god's purpose more inclusively among theists and atheists would involve eliminating arguments that had as their premise the non-existence of god. It's certainly more relevant than your pages-long obsession with me personally.

Ongoing sick fixation noted. I guess anything to avoid having to answer any real questions.
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'K.

(It appears I have a "sick" fixation with pointing out intentionally deceptive quotes. Although calling it "editorial mechanics" is next level dissembling)
 
16.5 said:
'It appears I have a "sick" fixation with pointing out intentionally deceptive quotes.
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You neglected to prove intent or deception. And yes, you have a sick fixation.

Now you say you want to make the discussion more inclusive of theist and atheist alike. Can you explain how that purpose is served by eliminating arguments that have as a premise the proposition that god does not exist?
 
JayUtah said:
You neglected to prove intent or deception. And yes, you have a sick fixation.

Now you say you want to make the discussion more inclusive of theist and atheist alike. Can you explain how that purpose is served by eliminating arguments that have as a premise the proposition that god does not exist?
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Sick fixation... Drink!

Say, jay, I think I have explained that those arguments are "pointless." But hey, if that is all you have (well that and declaring things platitudes, and sick fixation) go for it!

I am going to go right ahead and explain god's holy purpose, and you are going to.... Selectively edit? And say God does not exist.

/I am gonna go get another 12 pack! I feel a sick fixation accusation on the horizon....
 
He has called us to a holy life - not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace.

2 Timothy.
 
16.5 said:
Say, jay, I think I have explained that those arguments are "pointless."
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No one else thinks that. So your justification boils down to "because I say so," which is how I believe someone else here characterized your approach. Since no one seems to want or need your help moderating this thread, do you mind if we continue it without your constant interference and interruption?

But hey, if that is all you have...
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"All" I have? As I said, I and others are expanding the discussion to go beyond your arbitrary limits. You said you were interested also in inclusion. But as we saw, what you really want is universal acceptance of your one-sided, ad hoc, personal judgment.

well that and declaring things platitudes...
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...and then going on to ask for specific details, which you decline to provide.

I am going to go right ahead and explain god's holy purpose...
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Will that involve paying attention to your critics? Or merely mocking them? I really can't remember when I've seen someone so desperate to avoid the meat of the discussion.
 
16.5 said:
He has called us to a holy life - not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace.
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This seems to say there's no condition I can satisfy to obligate god to reward me. He will grant or withhold it on a whim. In RogueKitten's case he seems to have withheld it. That doesn't sound like a very noble or just purpose to me. That sounds like a churlish tyrant, acting on a whim.
 
Over 2000 years ago, God sent Jesus Christ his only begotten son to die for us so that we all may enjoy everlasting life.

Now that is a God with a purpose and a plan!

And that was indeed the revelation of God's plan as mentioned in 2 Timothy chapter 1 verse 9 for it was Jesus who illuminated the path and abolished death for all.

Chapter 1, Verse 10.
 
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16.5 said:
Over 2000 years ago, God sent Jesus Christ his only begotten son to die for us so that we all may enjoy everlasting life.
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That god is reputed to be omnipotent. Why didn't he just grant people everlasting life (whatever that is) rather than author all of this pain and suffering? He's either not omnipotent, or he's a jerk.

Now that is a God with a purpose and a plan!
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Vague, unparsimonious purpose and a stupid, convoluted plan, if you ask me.
 
And through the suffering of Jesus did God allow us to transcend suffering, in fact to transcend death itself to that the purpose of our Lord, to love and be loved in everlasting life may be fulfilled.
 
16.5 said:
And through the suffering of Jesus did God allow us to transcend suffering...
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*ahem* RogueKitten. She poured her heart out regarding her personal suffering and you've been strangely silent about that. When does she get to transcend her suffering? How exactly does her plight figure into your belief of god's plan?

...in fact to transcend death itself...
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Have you personally met anyone who transcended death? What form does this promised transcension take?

...to that the purpose of our Lord...
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Did you just do a search for "purpose" on the Bible? All your recent quotations have had that word in it, whether it really said anything useful or not. Not that I'm against automated searches of the Bible. I just would like to know whether there's any thought behind these quotes or whether it's a platitude dump.

...to love and be loved in everlasting life may be fulfilled.
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Again with this "everlasting life" doing ... what? There are many, many holes in your proffered model of god's purpose. You seem strangely reluctant to explore them.
 
Say, lets take a look at some other views: St. Thomas Aquinas, Doctor of the Church. Here is a pretty good summary of his commentary from Summa Theologia:

Thomas identified the goal of human existence as union and eternal fellowship with God. This goal is achieved through the beatific vision, in which a person experiences perfect, unending happiness by seeing the essence of God. The vision occurs after death as a gift from God to those who in life experienced salvation and redemption through Christ.
 
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