God's purpose

Bikewer said:
This is something I often bring up myself. If (BIG if...) there were a God with the attributes we commonly ascribe to that being... Omnipotent, Omniscient, etc....
Why would it bother to create anything? What would be the point?

Omniscience and omnipotence alone would mean that God could imagine literally anything, and bring it instantly into existence in complete perfection... And understand that creation's ultimate fate through all of time, down to the disposition of each molecule's dissolution.
So....Why bother.

Is God lonely? Lacking in self-esteem? Just wants to "share the love"? Then simply create Heaven, fill it with happy, shining people and let it go at that.
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Very well put ...... I have a soul mate!
 
RogueKitten said:
Absolutely it isn't healthy. He has a lot of debt. I am not going to have him living in a cardboard box, so until we get enough of it paid off that he can afford to support me, the kids, and himself. I don't always like him, but I certainly won't let him suffer.
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Ah. I happen to be unecumbered. I own my home outright. That said, I spend a small fortune on my kids, and glad I am to do it.

Nevertheless, the hex-wife resents it. Why? I have no idea. Even my girlies roll there eyes in despair.

Us actual active fatherly parents simply don't get the fair end of the judicial stick.
 
abaddon said:
.....

The babble also said you must shut the <bleep> up. ....
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If it's any consolation, it's been fairly well established that requirement of women is from a forged manuscript. In decidedly authentic manuscripts, Paul gives women (some by name) praise for their works and their words.
 
logger said:
Why not?
He has clearly created a lot, why not life as we know it?


Why not create beings who could choose their destiny. They would be created with the free will to love, create, nurture, and learn.
Of course they would also have the power to hate, tear down, and destroy, but that would also give others the power to go against those who do evil.




Maybe I doubt it but who knows. We haven't a clue what is really beyond our galaxy, or in other spiritual dimensions, if other spiritual dimensions really exist. :)
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Not 100% sure what you are saying here logger. Are you saying that God has been active in other parts of the universe as well, inhabiting other planets with beings that resembled him and picking up souls there as well? This would help fill in the vast amount of time that nothing was happening until Earth came on line.

Given this possibility it's interesting to speculate on the method God may have used in other locations before Earth. Is original creation, a flood and start again, a chosen people, rejection of the chosen people idea and then sending the son down to straighten things out his standard approach? Surely what was done here could not have been a refinement on what has been done somewhere before? It's hard to imagine something even worse than this clumsy blundering effort.
 
logger said:
If he came down and sat on your shoulder while handing you his book, you would still throw it back in his face while yelling some sort of profanity.

Understand now?
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If God wanted me to believe that he exists, he would know exactly how to infallibly ensure I did.

Ergo, either God doesn't exist, or if he does, he wants me to be an atheist.
 
arthwollipot said:
If God wanted me to believe that he exists, he would know exactly how to infallibly ensure I did.

Ergo, either God doesn't exist, or if he does, he wants me to be an atheist.
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God does not work through false dichotomy. God imbued his creation with free will.

When people ask me what is God's purpose the proper response is to point out that the real question is what is your purpose, strive for that purpose and there you will find God.
 
abaddon said:
Ya know, I'm not sure that is healthy. Sometimes it works, but not often. My hex-wife is particularly peeved that I gave design control to my home to my children, or even that I have a home at all. Mostly, I shrug and say "it is not your business"

The babble also said you must shut the <bleep> up. Instant mysogyny.


Oh dammit. I could go on point by point. Suffice it to say that I have one awful ex-wife and two fantastic kids. I consider that a win by any measure.
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As a note, you misattributed some of your quotations in the quoted post, abaddon.
 
16.5 said:
God does not work through false dichotomy. God imbued his creation with free will.
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Why? If God is at all concerned about whether we worship him or not, why does he give us the capacity to not do so? Especially when not doing so, according to most (but not all) interpretations of his will, will result in us being thrown into a lake of fire? Why would he do that to us?

16.5 said:
When people ask me what is God's purpose the proper response is to point out that the real question is what is your purpose, strive for that purpose and there you will find God.
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Oh yes, that's a great way to avoid the question while still sounding profound. Good job.
 
arthwollipot said:
Why? If God is at all concerned about whether we worship him or not, why does he give us the capacity to not do so? Especially when not doing so, according to most (but not all) interpretations of his will, will result in us being thrown into a lake of fire? Why would he do that to us?

Oh yes, that's a great way to avoid the question while still sounding profound. Good job.
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Because God chose to imbue his creation with free will, of course. I'll ignore the sarcasm in the second part of your post
 
arthwollipot said:
Why? If God is at all concerned about whether we worship him or not, why does he give us the capacity to not do so? Especially when not doing so, according to most (but not all) interpretations of his will, will result in us being thrown into a lake of fire? Why would he do that to us?

Oh yes, that's a great way to avoid the question while still sounding profound. Good job.
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I have to play Devil's advocate here and agree with 16.5 that you stated a classic false dichotomy. It made the assumption that this 'God' has human emotions, which is a separate question entirely. And even if you assume he is 'concerned' about your salvation (based on one of many interpretations of biblical passages written by humans...) it doesn't preclude a third possibility--for example, that God's concern for your 'free will' supercedes his concern for your salvation. In that case, it is not an example of him "wanting" you to be an atheist, but rather him "wanting" you to have free will.
ETA: I see 16.5 beat me to it....well it was the obvious answer, one you should have anticipated ;)
 
tinribmancer said:
Like The Illuminati...

Does that mean that Patrick Stewart is a god, too? :eek:
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Actually, that turns out to be a misunderstanding - actually he is now a Pod. That's why his acting is a little stiff of late and he seems to have some difficulty understanding jokes - or making them............
 
RogueKitten said:
So you're a slave?
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Maybe.... I am never really sure they believe this stuff or doing the go along to get along thing. There really is no logic or sense to it and large amounts are clearly made up/borrowed from earlier texts made up for earlier religions. It seems completely silly -and I read the whole thing as well as a number of those for other religions. No sign/proof or indication of actual accuracy or real consistency in any of them, but some were better written (or translated) than others................
 
logger said:
Do you think human's have a conscience?
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Giordano said:
Some do and some do no (or at least give little indication of having one). I already acknowledged that some theologians here interpret the conscience as something implanted by God. If so, God must have missed a few or messed up during installation.

<snip>
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Given that we know some 1% of humans are psychopaths, which essentially means they have no sense of conscience, logger's line of argument is nipped in the bud. Or god really is a very incompetent operator.

And it is truly ironic that logger is now professing to be a christian! :rolleyes:
 
RogueKitten said:
I live with my ex husband. No, I am currently not happy. Your point? Btw my church told me I should stay with my emotionally and mentally abusive, unfaithful husband, because "that's what the bible says". Bible also told him to keep his fly zipped, so, I really don't think it is relevant.

BTW as to the question of a "conscience". No, we don't have a "conscience", meaning, there is no part of the brain that tells you you're doing something right/wrong. What we have, in most people, is empathy. We teach our children that what we would feel in a situation, is what other people feel, but it isn't 100% necessary we even do that, as most primates, most mammals in fact, show empathy in at least a limited scope.

We internalize that message of "the golden rule" and feel a twinge of guilt when we do something we know we wouldn't like. Many of us feel that empathy for animals, which certainly isn't supported by the Bible given the amount of animal sacrifice they did (which I add because that's where you were going with that question). You can be taught not to be empathetic towards animals, but very young children show care for each other and for critters.

Even if we wanted to make the case "god" is our mental Jiminy cricket, how would that explain compassionate Hindus? Or bonobos? It doesn't, is the answer.

Eta what about sociopaths, who literally do not have a "conscience"? Did god miss a couple?
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Excellent post. You are correct about empathy being the real instinct that we manifest when we exercise our minds with what we call having a conscience.

And you ninja'd me again at the end there! :p
 
stanfr said:
....well it was the obvious answer, one you should have anticipated ;)
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Of course I did. But this answer is inconsistent with an omniscient, omnibenevolent god, because it means that God knows that my free will will condemn me to the lake of fire, and he deliberately allows that to happen.

If I am the creation of God, then logically I am created such that I can be cast into the lake of fire if it turns out that I am defective. And by "defective" I mean that I fail to do whatever he wants.
 
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