Tricky
Briefly immortal
Depends on who you ask. According to Catholics, they go to Limbo. Some hard-line fundamentalists say they go to hell if they haven't been baptised.Iacchus said:
On what basis do you claim authority on this issue?
exarch
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2003
- Messages
- 7,184
Why?
And why would it be any more or any less bull than what you've been spewing all week?
BTW, if my quote: "there is nothing to support the belief there is really something there to observe." is bull, that means you must have evidence that there IS something to support the belief there is a soul. Please provide the evidence
By experience. Science is the recording of events, events are things being experienced or witnessed. Since nobody has witnessed the soul yet, why would we assume it to exist or be real? Any more real than a pink unicorn or a greater vampire wombat for that matter?
Just admit that you don't *know* the soul exists (since you can't know), but merely want to believe it does because you're afraid it really will all be finished once you die. It has scared people since the dawn of humanity so much that they've come up with all kinds of comforting theories about after-life in some form or another. Myths being perpetuated by religion and making their appearances in all kinds of stories, movies, songs, etc ... All imagined
That is what you believe. Do you have anything to found that belief upon? Is there any real world observance that makes you so sure everything begins and ends with "the soul"?
They precede the body, but they are also outside the body, as in "not part of". Hence, metaphysics is not in any way connected with the real (physical) world, but merely theoretical so far.
You are completely wrong. I'm very well capable of accepting the fact that I'm a real person. But I don't see how I would not be able to be aware of myself or of my real physical body without a soul. I do however realise how I would not be self aware (or at least not to the extent of normal humans) if I didn't have a brain.
Speaking of that, do people in a coma have a soul? Or people with serious brain injuries who have become vegetables? Are they still conscious? Has their soul forsaken them?
Consciousness is a state of mind, not a separate entity.
Sometimes. Not at the moment though
Well, you're sure making it really difficult for us to take you seriously ...I guess I just find it hard to take other people seriously anymore?
Dream of Uncle Adolf
And I began to feel a sense of superiority and pride well up over the horizon. And lo and behold here was Uncle Adolf, welcoming me into his parlor, I was but a lad, as he began to cajole with me, and persuade me into thinking how important it was to join the Nazi party. Indeed, I was a prime candidate in his eyes.
This went on for what seemed to be an hour, with him giving me the whole spiel on the glory of the party, until finally I said, "Oh, well alright!" just to get him to stop. At which point he turned into a snappy black wiry poodle dog, quivering in anticipation as I began to pet it. Then all of a sudden I was wide awake in the front of my pickup truck, saying, "Whoa, what the heck was that all about!"
Hmm ... I had a dream about that once. It had been a long drive and I had parked my pickup truck along the coast of the sea and began to take a nap. And I found myself flying up in the mountains over these green fields and wondering what it was about.max said:
Lacchus
I believe that everybody moves on to another dimension not just children, so when you pop your clogs you could find yourself sitting next to Hitler or Attila the Hun
And I began to feel a sense of superiority and pride well up over the horizon. And lo and behold here was Uncle Adolf, welcoming me into his parlor, I was but a lad, as he began to cajole with me, and persuade me into thinking how important it was to join the Nazi party. Indeed, I was a prime candidate in his eyes.
This went on for what seemed to be an hour, with him giving me the whole spiel on the glory of the party, until finally I said, "Oh, well alright!" just to get him to stop. At which point he turned into a snappy black wiry poodle dog, quivering in anticipation as I began to pet it. Then all of a sudden I was wide awake in the front of my pickup truck, saying, "Whoa, what the heck was that all about!"
Re: Dream of Uncle Adolf
In case anyone's interested I've reposted this on a new thread, What are Dreams Made of?Iacchus said:
exarch
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2003
- Messages
- 7,184
Are we ignoring the questions again Iacchus?
Let me sum them up for you:
1. Since nobody has witnessed the soul yet, why would we assume it to exist or be real? Any more real than a pink unicorn or a greater vampire wombat for that matter?
Just admit that you don't *know* the soul exists (since you can't know), but merely want to believe it does because you're afraid it really will all be finished once you die.
3. ... do people in a coma have a soul? Or people with serious brain injuries who have become vegetables? Are they still conscious? Has their soul forsaken them?
Let me sum them up for you:
1. Since nobody has witnessed the soul yet, why would we assume it to exist or be real? Any more real than a pink unicorn or a greater vampire wombat for that matter?
Just admit that you don't *know* the soul exists (since you can't know), but merely want to believe it does because you're afraid it really will all be finished once you die.
2. That is what you believe. Do you have anything to found that belief upon? Is there any real world observance that makes you so sure everything begins and ends with "the soul"?
3. ... do people in a coma have a soul? Or people with serious brain injuries who have become vegetables? Are they still conscious? Has their soul forsaken them?
Who's nobody? Something that's other than human? And, while science may not understand it, souls do belong to human beings. This is why you need to question people who do understand such things, which apparently science hasn't, so that you might begin to develop a general consesus about it.exarch said:
What the heck are you talking about? While I'm afraid your inability to see it for yourself just won't work.
No, this is your "belief" about me which, is entirely unfounded. Now isn't that funny?
Does a radio which is impaired tend to amplify the signal?
Oh, and please note that I responded to your reply, okay?
Iacchus, are you having trouble understanding Exarch's question? It seems quite straightforward to me. You are making claims for something, and saying that Exarch (and by extension, I) are unable to see it. This implies that you are able to see it. Ok, what is the evidence you see? On what basis are you so adamant about your claim? What have you seen that we have not?Iacchus said:
Dancing David
Penultimate Amazing
My radio station thinks your radio station is stupid! So There!
NYAH!
NYAH!
wolfgirl
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2002
- Messages
- 1,375
Riddick said:
Cop-out!
My husband and I were just talking about this concept this morning. The fact is that every religion that we know of has some explanation for evil.
It's like we can't just accept that some people are good, some are evil, and most of us are just struggling along somewhere in between. We have to excuse the evil by saying "Satan (or insert other bad deity's name here) makes people do bad things."
If we ourselves occasionally give in to our baser temptations and do something we know to be wrong, we can't say we just had a moment of weakness. We have to place it somewhere else by saying, "Satan (or insert other bad deity's name here) made me do it."
We can't understand why bad things happen so we have to personify them by saying, "Satan (or insert other bad deity's name here) caused it."
It just reinforces to me the idea that deities are all just made up to help us deal with things we don't understand or don't want to cope with. Since almost all cultures have this in common, it seems obvious that it's just a human construct made up to fulfill a basic human need.
Why can't we just grow up and accept that there are bad people. That sometimes even good people do bad things. And that sometimes bad things happen to good people. Period. End of story. No invisible supernatural mythical being necessary.
Until we accept our own very human culpability in the existence of evil, we will do nothing to stop it. Because as long as we can excuse it by blaming it on the invisible bad guy, we don't have to take responsibility for it. How can we mere mortals be expected to stop evil when it's caused by Satan (or insert other bad deity's name here)?
"All that is good comes from God. All that is bad comes from Satan." Such oversimplification defies introspection. And such naivete rarely leads to progress.
wolfgirl
Your interpetation of "Darwin's Law," as you put it, is nothing short of a restatement of "social darwinism." Social darwinism was a horrible 19th century corruption of Darwin's theory. Your post also displays some incredibly racist, culturalist and strangley isolationist assumptions.max said:
Dancing David
Penultimate Amazing
max said:
max,
This is an interesting thought about evolution, but it is important to remember that evolution applies solely to the survival of the individual. When we look at societal and cultural adaptation, it always does things that are counter to biological 'survival of those that breed'.
The treatment of people with myopiua and bad vision is a classic example. In the ancient past someone with a severe vision disorder would not have as much reproductive sucsess unless they aquired sedentary strategies of survival.
The treatment of polio and measles is anothere xample. The ability of our populatio to resist measles is going to decrease because we do no allow one quarter of all people who get the infection to die.
What you are discussing is another issue, frequentlt famins is caused as much by the political distribution of food as it is by actual drought. frequently an area will have enough food, but the governmenet will not distribute it.
I suppose that the US could have also not allowed for Lend/Lease when the Jerries turned from France to the blessed isle.
Humans help each other, it is what we do.
Max, evolution is theory which describes change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species.
"Survival of the fittest" is not an Ethical Theory (this is specifically called the Naturalistic Fallacy which means things which occur in Nature describe how politics or ethics ought to be... you might be familiar with the Naturalistic Fallacy if you have ever heard "homosexuality is immoral because its unnatural... when was the last time you saw two animals in a homosexual relationship"). "Survival of the Fittest" describes how things are, not how they ought to be.
Humans, being social, improve their fitness through cooperation with other people. Even if survival of the fittest were taken as a basis for morals, it would imply treating other people well.
A little information on Social Darwinism:
The source of social Darwinism was not Darwin but Herbert Spencer and the tradition Protestant nonconformism going back to Hobbes via Malthus. Spencer's ideas of evolution were Lamarckian. The only real connection between Darwinism and social Darwinism is the name.
Evolutionary theory shows us that the long term survival of a species is strongly linked with its genetic variability. Many Social Darwinist programs advocate minimizing genetic variability, thus reducing chances of long term survival in the event of environmental change. Understanding of evolution should then rebuke any attempt at social Darwinism if the long term survival of humanity is treated as a goal.
I wonder where Iaachus has been...
According to his profile, his last post was on 02-15-2004 04:46 AM (CST) in the A Literal Bible? thread...
According to his profile, his last post was on 02-15-2004 04:46 AM (CST) in the A Literal Bible? thread...