Cont: Global warming discussion V

[Stout]

They want the world to burn!!!
(and Mamdani to fail)

For my fellow ^oC users: 25.56^oC.

Links to the Wayback machine in the thread.


Welcome to communism, people!




I actually hate (some) U.S. indoor temperature settings where you freeze your balls of if you're in a T-shirt, but that may just be because I'm a communist.


ETA: Infamous communist Greg Abbott:

It depends on how used to air conditioning you are. If you go from your air conditioned house to your air conditioned car and drive to your air conditioned mall/office then keeping the temperature low becomes normal. If you're not used to it, then, yes you'll freeze your ass off at 20C.

 

[dann]

Wrong, of course.
Link
All my electricity is flowing through government owned powerlines, don't care if my oil is too. It's a very progressive approach.

Inside Carney’s Pipeline Deal with Alberta and BC (The Tyee, July 4, 2026)
the realization is yet to set in with the public that 90 per cent of the cost of this multibillion-dollar project — we don’t know how many multiples of billions yet — is going to be paid by Alberta and Canadian taxpayers, just as we were promised would never happen.
(...)
Obviously, the Alberta government can’t pretend Trans Mountain Corp., a federal Crown corporation, or the Alberta Petroleum Marketing Commission are private entities. And as for Pembina Pipeline Corp., described by Ottawa as a “strategic investor,” we can be confident that behind the scenes it’s been protected from any risk as a result of its role as a fig leaf in this political Kabuki theatre.

 

[dann]

What was I saying about rushing to cut China some slack? Yes, yes I know, they're going to save the planet...any day now.

You'll have to work on your strawman arguments. You should at least try to make them appear to have been made by somebody other than you yourself.
Nobody has claimed that China is saving the planet. The Chinese are trying to avoid contributing to the desctruction of the planet, i.e. they're leaving the destruction of the planet to countries like the USA, Canada and Australia. It's up to the populations of those countries to prevent their respective oligarchs from doing that.
It doesn't look good. Big Oil's and Big Tech's media campaigns, astroturfing and bribing of politicians aren't easy to stand up to.

 

[Stout]

Lol, Tyee. Winging about CCS and failing to mention Chinese involvement in the oil sands.

Also this

Someone else will have to save the planet, and if that turns out to be China

Something about a strawman?

 

[EHocking]

Nice to see you have strong allies in the struggle against mendacious austerity. Every New Yorker knows that what starts with not setting your AC thermostat six degrees cooler than you set your heating thermostat in winter, inevitably ends with mandatory daily cold showers.

Funny you should say that. I just realised all the AC in our house are set to the same temperature in either heat or cool mode. As is our car’s: 24^oC.

 

[The Atheist]

What is this "air conditioning" of which you people speak?

Just live in NZ, north of Hamilton. Temperatures range from comfortable to enjoyable, barring 3 days a year where it verges on almost uncomfortably humid.

 

[novaphile]

Funny you should say that. I just realised all the AC in our house are set to the same temperature in either heat or cool mode. As is our car’s: 24^oC.

Interesting.

My summer temp setting is 24°C, and winter is 21°C.

(I have no idea if this makes any difference.)

Overnight, with everything turned off, my house cools down about 16°C, which is really nice for sleeping.

Sleeping in Australian summers is not as nice.

Now that I have a new roof, with another layer of insulation, my energy use for heating and cooling may be lower, I'll have to monitor and see if I can spot a difference.

(Roof is steel, then a foil layer, vapour barrier then 50mm of fibreglass insulation, ceiling has 60mm recycled post-consumer PET plastic.)



NB. By comparison to most of the world, basic Australian homes are 'glorified tents'.

(i.e. typically no insulation in walls, or below floor, very simple roofs.)

 

[W.D.Clinger]

My thermostat is set at 77° F (25° C) for cooling and 63° F (17.2° C) for heating.

That's a slight change from the usual, because I had it set at 78° F for cooling. The person who changed my filter and did other routine maintenance made the change, and I just now noticed it.

During the summer, the outside temperature at night here usually drops 30 to 40 Fahrenheit degrees below the daytime high. Opening windows at night is often enough to keep the house within that specified range without engaging the heat pump.

 

[EHocking]

Interesting.

My summer temp setting is 24°C, and winter is 21°C.

(I have no idea if this makes any difference.)

Overnight, with everything turned off, my house cools down about 16°C, which is really nice for sleeping.

Sleeping in Australian summers is not as nice.

Now that I have a new roof, with another layer of insulation, my energy use for heating and cooling may be lower, I'll have to monitor and see if I can spot a difference.

(Roof is steel, then a foil layer, vapour barrier then 50mm of fibreglass insulation, ceiling has 60mm recycled post-consumer PET plastic.)



NB. By comparison to most of the world, basic Australian homes are 'glorified tents'.

(i.e. typically no insulation in walls, or below floor, very simple roofs.)

Our place in the sub-tropics was designed to be cool in the heat. Winter is a bugger.
Also we’re warm climate people, so feel the cold. Ironic that earlier this year we went to Antarctica and also had spent a Xmas in the Ice Hotel in the Swedish arctic.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

What is this "air conditioning" of which you people speak?

Just live in NZ, north of Hamilton. Temperatures range from comfortable to enjoyable, barring 3 days a year where it verges on almost uncomfortably humid.

Had the hottest day in living memory here in Hastings (NZ) on January 11 2026. The official recorded temperature was 36.2°C, but inside my house it reached 38°C. I don't have air conditioning, just a ceiling fan which I have only used a few times in 11 years.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

Let's not lose sight of the fact that while China is number one right now, their all-tume total is half of America's.

Who has contributed most to global CO2 emissions?

Our impact on climate change is not just about emissions that occur today. How much we emitted in the past also matters.

ourworldindata.org

Taking into account China's speed in embracing non-fossil energy, they will never catch up to America's total.

While that's true, there's not much we can do about the past. The important thing is to reduce current and future emissions, and provide more carbon sinks to remove the CO₂ already in the atmosphere. Rather than playing the blame game we should concentrate on fixing the damage we all had a hand in.

Focusing on China's current emissions is a corrupt argument.

It's just another denier tactic - anything to get out of helping fix the mess we are in. Selfishness, the defining characteristic of conservatives and libertarians.

 

[Helen]

I think it's fine to focus on China, if you focus on their energy policies at present; their focus is on renewable energy, and it's not because it's woke, or green, or for any other ideological reasons, it's because it's cheap, sustainable and reliable, compared to fossil fuel.

 

[Stout]

It's just another denier tactic - anything to get out of helping fix the mess we are in. Selfishness, the defining characteristic of conservatives and libertarians.

Speaking of denialism, it appears the global elephant in the room is only visible to some. Take off those ideological blinkers and experience the world as it really is. It's more fun that way.

Yes, China has embraced renewables – but don’t call it a transition, expert says — Harvard Gazette

Kennedy School panelists ponder next chapter in a tale of two superpowers.

news.harvard.edu

Even the CCP considers wind and solar as "low value energy" a term that may have been invented for the occasion but the concept has been widely known for decades (except by real world denialists)

The government position is that coal provides a stable backup to sources such as wind and solar, which are affected by weather and the time of day. The shortages in 2022 resulted partly from a drought that hit hydropower, a major energy source in western China.

Coal should “play an important underpinning and balancing role” for years to come, the National Development and Reform Commission, the lead economic planning agency, said in guidance issued last year on making coal plants cleaner and more efficient.

The China Coal Transportation and Distribution Association, an industry group, said last week that coal-fired power would remain essential for power-system stability, even as other sources of energy replace it.

Link

 

[dann]

Speaking of denialism, it appears the global elephant in the room is only visible to some. Take off those ideological blinkers and experience the world as it really is. It's more fun that way.

Yes, China has embraced renewables – but don’t call it a transition, expert says — Harvard Gazette

Kennedy School panelists ponder next chapter in a tale of two superpowers.

news.harvard.edu

Even the CCP considers wind and solar as "low value energy" a term that may have been invented for the occasion but the concept has been widely known for decades (except by real world denialists)
Link

Cheap energy would be a better word for any occasion, but it's in line with Stout's ideological blinkers to pretend that China agrees with Trump's attitude to wind&solar.
Trump's "low-value energy" (What happened to 'cancer-causing and bird&whale killing'?) is his pathetic attempt to make electricity from wind&solar seem to be somehow inferior to energy from fossil fuels even though it's superior in every respect: cheaper and at the same time not harmful to the atmosphere.

There are many ways to compensate for the fluctuations of wind and sun, for instance:
1) A grid that can handle those fluctuations and send a surplus of electricity to where it's needed. The American grid appears to inferior to what we have in Europe, which is why U.S. senators find very alternative ways to deal with the problem.
2) Storage of energy.
Even the pioneers at Tvind (see post 2,318) were aware of this back in the 1970s:

Vindkraftværket Tvindkraft (Danish Wikipedia)
I de første driftsår kunne det offentlige net kun bære 400 kW, men møllen kunne allerede dengang levere 1 MW, hvorfor hele produktionen ikke kunne leveres til nettet. Den overskydende kapacitet blev benyttet til strømproduktion til en dyppekoger på godt 500 kW, som opvarmede vand til Tvinds centralvarmesystem.

Tvindkraft wind turbine
In the first years of operation, the public grid could only handle 400 kW, but the turbine could already deliver 1 MW, which is why the entire production could not be delivered to the grid. The excess capacity was used to produce electricity for a 500 kW immersion heater, which heated water for Tvind's central heating system.

Instead of learning from examples like this one, for the past 50 years Big Oil has been busy making up stupid arguments against wind power, the latest being Trump's "low value energy."
Stout's ideological blinkers and/or his investments in fossil ful will never let him acknowledge any of this.

 

[dann]

I think it's fine to focus on China, if you focus on their energy policies at present; their focus is on renewable energy, and it's not because it's woke, or green, or for any other ideological reasons, it's because it's cheap, sustainable and reliable, compared to fossil fuel.

It's futile to argue against Stout's denialism. His ideology makes it impossible for him recognize reality. See post .

 

[Stout]

Yet, despite copious amounts of glorious wind and sunshine, China keeps building new coal plants.

I wonder why that is...

Perhaps Big Coal has some dirt on Big Commie?

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Coal power use in the US has risen by 10%.
It is declining in China.

In the United States, where coal use had declined by 16% in 2023 and 5% in 2024, demand grew by 10% in 2025, driven by higher use in the electricity sector, which accounts for almost 90% of US coal consumption.

Overall, coal demand in China in 2025 stayed very close to 2024 levels, recording a slight increase of 0.1%.

While China saw continued strong electricity demand growth in 2025, this was met by a combination of fast growth in solar PV and wind generation, increased hydropower output and growth in nuclear power. As a result, coal electricity generation in China declined by around 1.5% in 2025, falling for only the second time since the 1970s.

In parallel, the commissioning of coal power plants in China accelerated significantly in 2025, reaching almost 80 gigawatts (GW). This was the result of an elevated number of approvals between 2022 and 2024 following power shortages in 2021. The construction of new plants is primarily intended to meet peak electricity demand and support China’s energy security goals.

https://www.iea.org/reports/global-energy-review-2026/coal

There is a difference between using Coal Power for baseload or primarily for peak demand.

 

[wobs]

Yet, despite copious amounts of glorious wind and sunshine, China keeps building new coal plants.

I wonder why that is...

Perhaps Big Coal has some dirt on Big Commie?

"Renewables account for over 60 pct of China's power capacity in 2025"

Renewables account for over 60 pct of China's power capacity in 2025

Renewable energy accounted for over 60 percent of China's total installed power generation capacity in 2025 as the country's use of wind and solar power increased, official data showed Friday.

english.www.gov.cn

Renewables are doing well, and nuclear are also being built. Coal may have just about reached its peaked. Maybe.

They are also building the largest dam in the world (for better or for worse), which could supply 60GW if it actually works.
Current capacity in China is 3890GW of electricity, and with AC and AI on the rise, this will only increase for some time.

 

[Stout]

There is a difference between using Coal Power for baseload or primarily for peak demand.

Which is something the atmosphere doesn't really care about.

Trumpet the low value energy as being the be-all and end-all of planet saving goodness, live with the uncertanties.

 

[Stout]

"Renewables account for over 60 pct of China's power capacity in 2025"

Renewables account for over 60 pct of China's power capacity in 2025

Renewable energy accounted for over 60 percent of China's total installed power generation capacity in 2025 as the country's use of wind and solar power increased, official data showed Friday.

english.www.gov.cn

Renewables are doing well, and nuclear are also being built. Coal may have just about reached its peaked. Maybe.

They are also building the largest dam in the world (for better or for worse), which could supply 60GW if it actually works.
Current capacity in China is 3890GW of electricity, and with AC and AI on the rise, this will only increase for some time.

That looks like CCP propaganda.

I prefer Forbes and their real world analysis.

At the same time, renewables like wind and solar have been expanding fast, but have not yet reached a 20% share of electricity generated annually. To reach critical climate goals, China would have to keep up progress instead of slowing it down or even reversing it.

It is not only the coal power plants that have come online already. China has more projects in the pipeline. Additional data shows that China has a staggering 500 gigawatts of coal power capacity under construction, permitted, pre-permitted and announced as of this January. While cancellation rates are high, the country’s coal frenzy has still caused available coal power capacity to rise continuously every year. Christine Shearer of the Global Energy Monitor said according to the Associated Press that China had commissioned more coal power capacity in 2025 alone than India, the second biggest builder of new coal, had done in the past decade.

Yep, that new dam is a helluva project, like you say, for better or for worse.