Cont: Global warming discussion V

Eco-communism had a good run way back in 2019 before it was shoved aside by the far more fashionable Black Lives Matter. When their leader started protesting wind farms in Finland and actually hijacked a climate rally in Amsterdam, everybody knew it was over. Sure, no doubt pockets of it exist in the mouldy backrooms of anarchist bookstores and it may even return if "the world" finds itself lacking anything better to protest.

Even Just Stop Oil has hung up the high-vis. They claim there work is done but they probably figured out that everybody hates them.

We still have CoP 30 though.
 
Allegedly, 'they, i.e. the "eco-commies," aren't popular, so they must be wrong!'
You may not have noticed it yet, but Big Brother's popularity isn't exactly on the rise.

As for Mother Jones:
Transition of household cooking energy in China since the 1980s (ScienceDirect/Energy, May 1, 2023)
From 1989 to 2015, the structure of household cooking energy consumption in China underwent a significant transition. Most households changed their cooking energy from solid fuels, such as fuelwood and coal, to modern clean fuels, such as electricity, natural gas, and LPG. There were significant differences in the cooking energy transition between urban and rural areas. Gas was favored by urban households when changing from solid fuels to clean energy, whereas electricity was favored by rural.
However, even in the cities there is now a tendency to shift from gas to electricity due to both environmental concerns and costs. When fossil fuels aren't subsidized, electricity is getting cheaper than gas. It works even better if electricity is subsidized instead of fossil fuels.
When electric cooking gets cheaper than cooking with gas, it is no longer necessary to pry the stoves from the cold dead hands of MAGA morons. It will becomes even more advantageous to the people Trump is already doing his utmost to impoverish.
Too bad he won't be alive to see the transition.

See pages 8 to 14: An Investigation report on the policy environment of “clean cooking” in China (MECS, July 2020)

"ETA: Ninjad by Roger" ... and immediately answered by dann.
 
Looks like eco-commies and Trump have a couple of things in common. Both of them being wrong and unpopular.

"They're coming for your stoves" wasn't some wild conspiracy theory, limitations on gas instillations in new construction are already happening.

I know there's a certain romantic, primal appeal to cooking with solid fuel (think of Germans roasting wursts over the flames at Mount Olympos) but doing this on a day-to-day basis kinda sucks. I'm sure we've all been to developing nations and seen those guys riding or walking around selling huge bags of charcoal and if you ask any of those people who have to rely on that charcoal what their favoured form of non solid fuel is, they're going to answer with "whatever's available". They're not going to care.

The want for gas stoves isn't a partisan issue, it's driven by the foodie types who want a professional kitchen in their houses to impress their foodie friends. I suppose the next thing on the chopping block will be gas BBQs
 
Yes, limitations on gas installations (!) are being introduced everywhere - much like the limitations on where you can go in cars running on gas.
And a good thing, too! Soon it may no longer be possible to drive around in Copenhagen in cars running on fossil fuels (so-called 'fossil cars'):
København skifter gear: Snart kan det være slut med benzin- og dieselbiler i byen (TV2Kosmopol.dk, Mar 18, 2024)
Copenhagen shifts gears: It may soon be the end of gas and diesel cars in the city
Good riddance!

Unlike natural gas and coal, charcoal is renewable*, so the 'foodies', who are few and far between (and should all be forced to watch The Menu), can continue to use charcoal for BBQs in their gardens or local parks.


* For years, Cuba has been fighting a losing battle against a very nasty invasive weed, Marabu (not to be confused with the very ugly bird or the delicious Swedish chocolate), but it was recently discovered that it makes a very high quality charcoal.
Cuban Marabu Charcoal Export Worldwide
Unfortunately, It won't be available to foodies in the USA due to the blockade.
 
Last edited:
A couple of tweets from X - mainly for the 'centrists':
Armand Donalewski on X, June 29, 2025
I would like to take this moment, as the GOP prepares to just completely destroy all new clean energy production out of existence, to extend a hearty ◊◊◊◊ YOU to all the left wingers who insisted Kamala Harris would be just as bad on the environment as Donald Trump
Biden Defense Squad on X, June 29, 2025
Joe Biden dedicated the majority of his Presidency to fighting climate change, and these people pretended he was worse on the environment than Trump.
Hold Dems Accountable on X, June 30
Not only did Biden/Harris somehow do even worse than Trump, Kamala literally bragged about it while debating him!

Image



That can't be right! Don't just repost any BS you see on the internet!
Biden is approving more oil and gas drilling permit on public lands than Trump, analysis finds (WaPo, Dec 6, 2021)
Joe Biden Is Producing More Oil Than Donald Trump Did (Newsweek, Jan 9, 2024)
Big Oil is doing way better under Biden than under Trump (yahoo!finance, May 10, 2024)
Harris touts record oil boom as she embraces fossil fuels (Financial Post, Sep 11, 2024)
Harris twice invoked the surge in U.S. crude and natural gas production during Tuesday's debate

You already conveniently forgot about this, didn't you?!
This is what this reminder is for!
 
Last edited:
Do it Copenhagen, just do it. Ban all fossil fueled vehicles from your city. No more pissing around with these feeble neighbourhood bans, grow a pair and make it city wide. In fact really grow a pair and make it all private vehicles. Convert your streets into parks, I know you already have the bicycle infrastructure in place because those EVs are still environmentally hostile despite efforts to paint them as not. Start referring to your roads as car sewers, regardless of their fuel type and maybe, just maybe you'll start making inroads into climate change because right now, these performative bans and nothing more than a minor inconvienience.

It's the foodies that want the gas stoves but I'm interested to hear how American redneck backyard barbequers would react when they get ass pats for cooking with a renewable energy source. All that fire and smoke...and saving the planet to boot.
 
Yes, it's great, isn't it?!
Pollution with (not only) CO2 emissions is decreasing from day to day in Copenhagen, but nobody wants to get rid of EVs. On the contrary, the number of EVs continues to increase. According to Google's AI:
In the first half of 2025, EVs accounted for 63.8% of all new car registrations. This strong performance solidifies Denmark's position as a leader in the transition to sustainable transportation.
I hope we'll soon get to 100%!

And "American redneck barbequers" can continue to cook with charcoal. They may even find it relatively easy to understand why charcoal (unlike fossil fuels) is a renewable source of energy - in spite of "all that fire and smoke."

I am not at all surprised that you now try to paint a picture of environmentalists as people who are not only coming to take away their gas stoves and gas-guzzling vehicles but all cars without exception, but that's the lie that Big Oil and its MAGA influencers are left with, I guess. That they are coming to take away Santa Claus and Christmas is getting too old and tired even for Watters and Ingraham at this point.
 
Of course "nobody" wants to get rid of EVs they're the panacea people want to cling onto as the switch to EVs doesn't have any measurable effect on their western mass consumption lifestyle. The drivers get to enjoy clean air and ass pats from their fellow EV owners while all the mining and manufacturing goes on out of sight, out of mind. This is the entire basis for the 15 minute city concept that eco-warriors love to promote, read up on it.
 
I don't need to read up on anything. I am the one who posts a steady stream of facts in this thread, whereas you post nothing but made-up MAGA lies.
 
Multiple sources are reporting this:
The Trump administration is considering canceling the lease of the support office for a renowned Big Island climate research station, sources said, raising fears for the future of key work tracking the impact of carbon emissions on global warming.

The office is one of more than 20 rented by the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration that are proposed to have their leases ended under money-saving efforts by the Department of Government Efficiency led by billionaire Elon Musk.

The online listing on the DOGE website mentions an NOAA office in Hilo and an estimate of how much would be saved by canceling its lease — $150,692 a year.
That's from the Hawaii Tribune, by-lined "By GLORIA DICKIE Reuters".

As most readers of this thread will know:
The Keeling Curve is the iconic record of global atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) measurements over time.

Spanning from 1958 to the present day, it is the longest continuous record of atmospheric CO2 in existence. CO2 measurements are taken at the Mauna Loa Observatory in Hawaii, and the data are representative of the global atmospheric CO2 concentration due to the pristine nature of the sampling location.
To save US taxpayers $150,692 a year, Donald Trump and Elon Musk hope to interrupt the longest-running and most reliable record we have of how atmospheric CO2 has increased over the past 67 years.
 
I don't need to read up on anything. I am the one who posts a steady stream of facts in this thread, whereas you post nothing but made-up MAGA lies.
Despite your "facts" global CO2 levels are still rising. Debunk that.
 
I know that what you are promoting, i.e. rising CO2 levels, are indeed rising. It's a fact, so I feel no need to 'debunk' it.
What is also a fact is that some countries, like Canada and the USA, say drill, baby, drill, and don't give a ◊◊◊◊ about carbon dioxide emissions, unlike countries like China, or Denmark, or Cuba, or Indonesia, the latter two helped along by China, which are actually working hard to lower emissions at a considerable rate.
Debunk that.
 
'Big Beautiful Bill':

Despite last-minute changes, US Senate bill deals big blow to renewable energy (Reuters, July 1, 2025)
Summary
  • Senate bill complicates new wind, solar projects
  • Bill could lead to higher utility bills, job losses
  • House urged to improve usability of wind, solar tax credits

The GOP's big spending bill could kill renewable energy projects (The Verge, July 1, 2025)
Senate Republicans advanced the bill with provisions that make it near impossible for many renewable energy projects to qualify for tax incentives Congress passed in 2022. But a last-minute amendment eliminated a proposal to impose a new excise tax on solar and wind projects, which industry groups and advocates warned could have done even more to cut jobs and raise electricity bills.
The fate of renewable energy projects — many of them in Republican districts — was a major sticking point that nearly stopped GOP lawmakers from reaching an agreement on the “One Big Beautiful Bill Act” that’s a key pillar of Donald Trump’s agenda.
(...)
Clean energy and climate advocates are still outraged by the bill’s slashing of incentives for renewables — on top of other language that gets rid of energy efficiency programs, guts protections for public lands, and winds down tax credits for electric vehicles.
(...)
The fact that solar and wind — favorite punching bags of Trump and other right-wing culture warriors — were targeted rather than other carbon-pollution-free sources of electricity, like nuclear reactors, is telling. Trump, who campaigned with support from the fossil fuel industry, has been particularly vitriolic against wind and solar energy. Misleading claims about renewable energy projects harming wildlife and inaccurate claims about wind and solar leading to power outages have been flagged by researchers as leading talking points in disinformation campaigns about climate change.

I guess those stocks much have fallen in expectation of what was going to be in the bill:
Clean energy stocks jump after tax on solar and wind projects is removed from Trump’s big bill (CNBC, July 1, 2025)
KEY POINTS
  • Shares of renewable energy companies are rising after a tax on solar and wind was removed from the Senate version of the One Big Beautiful Bill Act.
  • The Senate narrowly passed the legislation Tuesday and will now be considered by the House of Representatives.
  • The American Clean Power Association had warned that tax would up to $7 billion to the wind and solar industry’s burden.
 
Despite your "facts" global CO2 levels are still rising. Debunk that.
And they will continue rise. They would continue to rise for while even if we stopped burning all fossil fuels right now. The system has inertia.

In 1988 James Hansen’s research group projected 3 scenarios:-

Scenario A, 'business as usual', projected an exponential temperature rise, reaching 1.5°C in 2020 and 4°C in 2060. That would be horrific.

Scenario B posited a gradual stabilization in emissions causing a slowing temperature rise, reaching 1.2°C by 2020. In reality it was 1.0°C in 2020 and 1.2°C in 2023, suggesting that our current 'gradual stabilization' plan is having a similar effect.

Scenario C assumed a drastic reduction in emissions between 1990 and 2000. This would stabilize the temperature at just ~0.7°C above 'normal' by 2010.

However the projection showed very little difference between B and C in the years from 1990 to 2005. Only after that did scenario C flatten off while B continued to rise. Imagine if world leaders had managed push through those drastic reductions in 1990. 15 years later people like you whine about how it's having no effect, people around the world revolt against the 'useless' CO2 reduction measures, and we return to business as usual. The temperature then continues to rise at about the same rate and everybody is convinced that green energy was a hoax.

I understand your frustration at the apparent lack of results, but don't let that cloud your judgment. We are stil in a far better position than if we did nothing. The transition to clean energy is just picking up steam. Now is not the time to put the brakes on. Nor is it time to push harder risking mass rejection. In a few years people will accept it more and the benefits will be undeniable. Sure the temperature will rise more than if we took drastic measures, but that scenario is unrealistic.
 
I understand your frustration at the apparent lack of results, but don't let that cloud your judgment. We are stil in a far better position than if we did nothing. The transition to clean energy is just picking up steam. Now is not the time to put the brakes on. Nor is it time to push harder risking mass rejection. In a few years people will accept it more and the benefits will be undeniable. Sure the temperature will rise more than if we took drastic measures, but that scenario is unrealistic.
Interesting, I don't recall suggestion, anywhere, ever, that we put the brakes on renewable energy. Yes, taking drastic measures is unrealistic, that's been my whole point all along. Nobody want's drastic measures even the people who are calling for drastic measures don't want drastic measures and in order to avert the vaunted emissions targets "promised" by our fearless leaders those drastic measures are the only way to achieve those promises.
 
U.S. transition to clean energy
Acyn on X, July 4, 2025
TRUMP: Coal is back. I said, you cannot use the word coal unless you precede it by saying clean, beautiful coal.
Acyn on X, July 4, 2025
TRUMP: And we are putting up wind. It does not work, aside from ruining our fields and valleys and killing all the birds. Being very weak and expensive, all made in China. I have never seen a wind farm in China. Why is that?*
* Because you are ignorant and never looked: The Gansu Wind Farm in China is the largest wind farm in the world
And then he banged his little gavel
Trump gives disaster speech on Fourth as Melania cowers (MeidasTouch on YouTube, July 5, 2025 - 10:54 min.)
MeidasTouch host Ben Meiselas reports on Donald Trump’s disastrous Fourth of July Speech as Melania was awkwardly standing next to him before Donald signed the disastrous budget bill.
Ron Filipkowski on X, July 4, 2024
While the rest of the world races ahead with clean, renewable energy technology and engineering, the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ who mythologizes the high-tariff, monopolistic robber-baron, no regulations era has the US going all-in on coal.

It reminds me of a schoolmate who became a chimney sweep and claimed that soot was the cleanest thing on earth!
Cancer Incidence in a Cohort of Swedish Chimney Sweeps, 1958–2006 (PubMedCentral, Sep 2013)
Increased risks of various cancer types, ischemic heart disease, and asthma, among chimney sweeps have also been observed in other studies. A recent large Nordic record-linkage study of occupation and cancer showed increased risks of cancer of the lung, esophagus, pharynx, bladder, pancreas, and colon among chimney sweeps.
 
Last edited:
The USA actually has a president who issues executive orders like this and presents it in something called a fact sheet!
Reinvigorating America’s Beautiful Clean Coal Industry and Amending Executive Order 14241 (The White House, April 8, 2025)
Fact Sheet: President Donald J. Trump Reinvigorates America’s Beautiful Clean Coal Industry (The White House, April 8, 2025)
Clearing Up the Facts Behind Trump’s ‘Clean Coal’ Catchphrase (FactCheck.org, Nov 9, 2018)
'Beautiful, clean coal;' President Trump tries to revamp struggling coal industry (ABC News4 on YouTube - 35 sec.)

Trump should be forced to work, just for an hour or two, in a clean, beautiful coal mine like when he 'worked' at McD.
 
U.S. transition to clean energy


*
Because you are ignorant and never looked: The Gansu Wind Farm in China is the largest wind farm in the world
And then he banged his little gavel



It reminds me of a schoolmate who became a chimney sweep and claimed that soot was the cleanest thing on earth!

Ugh.

I have only recently learned (i.e. yesterday) that there is an industrial disease named after chimney sweeps, it's a form of cancer on the scrotum caused by exposure to soot and minerals created by fires.

 

Back
Top Bottom